Victorian pens

[AndrewW]

Can anyone tell me anything about 19th century pens?

 

In certain TV programmes, such as the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes dramatizations, I have seen people writing with metal dip pens that seem to be carried around as personal pens. I own an old-fashioned wooden handled dip pen, and find it difficult to write with and the nib runs out of ink almost every three words. These metal pens, however, seem to write smoother and for longer, more like a modern fountain pen minus the ink sac. Is this just a dramatic effect on TV, or were pens really like that in behaviour?

 

(Also: slightly OT for this part of the forum, but related: Did people back in the 19th century use any ink colours other than black?)

Edited July 20, 2006 by AndrewW

[Oxonian]

Hi there Andrew, I am sure that somebody on this forum can give you the precise dates for the first pratical FP patents and first widespread use of FPs but from memory there have been usable FPs or reservoir pens in use since about 1870ish if not a bit before that date. The Sherlock Holmes stories are set about late 1880's or early 1890's and I have a pen, a Watermans made using 1889 patents although I think the pen itself is a little more recent than that date.

As far as inks go, well the monks writing the various illuminated scriptures and prayer books used liquids in a whole range of colours, as to whether they were inks or paints can be debated at length, some of them would, I feel, qualify as inks although I am not certain what the current definition of an ink might be as far as a purist inkophile, or whatever the word for an ink specialist is, is concerned. Something that is for sure is that red ink has been around since the Ancient Egyptians as there are papyri with red writing on them, There is red ink on Magna Carta and accountants, critics and editors too, have been around for longer than the period from the Holmesian era until the present and , to the best of my knowledge, all of these professions, as well as teachers have been using red, green and violet inks for a couple of centuries at least. I am sure that you will get plenty of more accurate information in a couple of days, cheers Oxonian.

[Gerry]

As a single point of information, the Eagle Pen company patented a cartridge pen in 1890 - #426,758.

 

http://www.vintagepens.com/early_cartridge_pens.shtml - From Vintage Pens, a great reference site.

 

http://www.vintagepens.com/FAQhistory/FAQhistory.htm - A brief history of fountain pens. Dip pens are mentioned.

 

Of course, a look into the patent sections of the pinned topics here will give yoou an idea of what was out there in the 1800's.

 

Gerry

[jbb]

There's a great book called "Pen, Ink and Evidence" you might enjoy. There were retractable dip pens in the late 19th century.

 

I write with dip pens all the time (can't beat the flex of the nibs and the wonderful flourishes you can make). You get used to dipping and then it doesn't feel as slow. Nibs and paper vary quite a bit -- some are easier than others to write with.

[rhr]

I have seen people writing with metal dip pens that seem to be carried around as personal pens.

Andrew, these pens and pencils carried in vest pockets, or as watch-chain fobs, or on chatelaines were called "pen cases", or "pencil cases", or when they had one of each kind at both ends, "combination pen and pencil cases", or just "pen and pencil cases". There were also long, tapered penholders with retractible, or reversible nibs, so that you wouldn't stab yourself when carrying the penholder in a jacket pocket.

 

You might also look in Michael Finlay's book Western Writing Implements, in the Age of the Quill, the bible of pre-20th-century writing instruments.

 

George Kovalenko.

 

:ph34r:

[Kaweco]

removed

Edited April 2, 2007 by Kaweco

[antoniosz]

Andrew with respect to using dip pens, I can offer my own experience.

I have been using fountain pens for a while but I used to feel like dumb when it came to dip pens. Exactly because of the same reasons that you indicated. Smoothness and running out of ink quickly. For smoothness, it is true that dip pens are usually much more difficult to handle. Cardinal rule is press on the downstroke and barely touch the paper on the upstroke. It sounds like out a copperplate caligraphy book Regarding their capacity, the ink might help (non FP ink is "better") but a brand new dip nib has to be "properly" prepared to "hold" more ink. People used to (and still do) either lick or put the nib (underside) over a candle flame. This has helped me a lot (see for example my writing sample with a dip nib here.

 

For more technical information you can find here a list of early pen patents many of which are for dip nibs.

 

The book that George Kovalenko suggested is out of print (I believe) but you can find a nice article that contains much of that information in this link.

 

 

AZ

[BillTheEditor]

Can anyone tell me anything about 19th century pens?

 

In certain TV programmes, such as the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes dramatizations, I have seen people writing with metal dip pens that seem to be carried around as personal pens.  I own an old-fashioned wooden handled dip pen, and find it difficult to write with and the nib runs out of ink almost every three words.  These metal pens, however, seem to write smoother and for longer, more like a modern fountain pen minus the ink sac.  Is this just a dramatic effect on TV, or were pens really like that in behaviour?

 

(Also: slightly OT for this part of the forum, but related:  Did people back in the 19th century use any ink colours other than black?)

Antonios Z has given you a couple of the "tricks" that will help you at least finish a word or two, maybe a short sentence, in one dip, but dip pens in centuries past still had to be dipped frequently. At least until some companies (Esterbrook might have been the first) started making dip pens with feeds, which will write for some time without having to be re-dipped. Some calligraphic dip pens also came (and still do) with a clip-on metal reservoir that will hold a couple of drops of ink, but I am not sure when these came into use or if they were ever commonly used other than by artists.

 

The actors are acting. No need to feel like you are missing something.

Edited July 20, 2006 by BillTheEditor

[wdyasq]

The actors are acting. No need to feel like you are missing something.

"Never show on camera ........." is an old visual statement.

 

Ron

[Johnny Appleseed]

For smoothness, it is true that dip pens are usually much more difficult to handle.

 

Is this true mainly of the dip-pen nibs available today? Or of vintage steel semi-diposable steel nibs? Or of vintage gold dip-pen nibs?

 

My understanding is that the vintage gold dip-pen nibs made by people like Fairchild or Aikin Lambert were as good as anything put on a fountain pen - in fact they were almost the exact same nibs as the early fountian pens used.

 

John