Parker 51 vs. Lamy 2000

[jniforat]

Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more. However the hard to find sweet spot and semi-messy filling system makes this pen a good buy but you could get more for your buck only.

 

where do you buy your p51s? I've bought mint 51s here on the forum for less than $90 and i recently bought a p51 in pristine condition for $20.50 on ebay that is now an everyday writer...$150? maybe a flighter...

[jar]

Nice review of two interesting pens.

 

Not all that long ago an acquaintance of mine expressed an interest in fountain pens so I sent him a few to get started. I don't remember exactly what was included but two of them were a LAMY Safari and a 2000. I considered including a 51 but decided against it for several reasons. First, a Parker 51 represents the state of the art back in 1941 while a Lamy 2000 represents the state of the art in the mid to late 60s. Lots of technological and material advances had been made during the quarter century between the two pens.

 

Second, the Parker was designed for a market where everyone used and was familiar with fountain pens. They were common and ubiquitous. By the time of the advent of the Lamy 2000, the fountain pen was becoming a niche item, the ball point was king and it was what most people would be familiar with. I find the feel of the Lamy 2000 to be pretty much ball point in nature.

 

Finally, the Lamy 2000 would be at least 20 years newer than ANY of the 51s I had available and still a pen that should any repair work be needed, has an active and responsive source.

 

As it turned out, the last factor was essential as he found there was a leak past the front o-ring. He was able to send it to a US Lamy depot and get the o-ring replaced for almost no charge. I still feel slightly guilty about that but honestly, I had not used the Lamy for decades and so really wasn't aware of the issue. If you read this guy, "Mea Culpa."

 

Two great pens, each representing the state of the art at a given moment in time.

[mkkm19912002]

This is a joke, right? You voted the P51's nib to be worse than the lamy 2000's simply due to the fact you can't see the nib? These pens are old, some of their tipping has worn off. The tipping on the 2000's nib is flat, meaning it's more prone to skipping due to rotation. The 2000's nib is much wetter than the 51's and it is also much thicker, bleeding through many pages. imo, the only advantage the 2000 has over the 51 is ease of cleaning, as you just need to flush without cleaning the collector in the 51's hood.

 

Also

"Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more"

 

Most parker 51's can be had under $75... You can get maybe 3 user grade 51's for the price of 1 2000.

 

How many 51's can you get for under 75 dollars that can right perfectly and are in mint condition. Chances are you will need the pen restored and you need to pay for that too, and I include that in the price, it like a hidden fee. Many 2000 sell way below the retail of 160 USD, they too can be had in the 89 USD, and that is new, out of the box never been used. You can't compare a new, mint condition 2000 to a vintage 51 in terms of price.I have written with a 51 in very good condition and still it isn't close to the quality of the 2000. What is the thickness of your 2000? I have a sample of it written by me and do not notice bleedthrough on any pages, much less many.

 

i totally agree with henry louis, there is no reason that a p51 nib can is worse than a lamy 2k nib just because you cant see it. and there are quite a few p51's on here that can be had for under 50 dollars. and as for the repair and restoration, you can do that yourself for a fraction of the price a professional charges.

 

That part of the review factored in beauty as well as nib performance if you read it carefully.

[mkkm19912002]

I've been using some P51's recently and they vary from excellent to maddeningly inconsistent because of the tiny sweet spot. I had to go through several P51's to find the one or two that are great. However, my best P51, which has wonderful flow, smoothness and consistency of line, and for which I paid in the $100 range, is better than the two Lamy 2000's that I own. For starters, the Lamy's leak, both of them, at the section, under the nib. While the Lamy nibs are very smooth indeed, they have a certain lack of tactile feedback---they are TOO smooth! And then, ergonomically, the P51's are slimmer and tire my hand much less. As for design, there is something much more Bauhaus and essential to me in the P51 than in the Lamy 2000; the P51 is streamlined like a plane of the era. The Bauhaus artist Moholy Nagy really admired the P51, which does not surprise me. Yes, so much of this is subjective, but I am merely relating my experiences. To me, the P51 wins, and is the overall better daily user and workhorse pen, but neither the P51 nor the Lamy 2000 approach the perfection of my Aurora 88.

 

I don't think there's such a thing as too smooth, and my P51 is sometimes butter smooth and sometimes terrible due to the small sweet spot which is why I gave its nib a much worse rating than the Lamy 2000's nib.

[kazoolaw]

...a Lamy 2000 represents the state of the art in the mid to late 60s. Lots of technological and material advances had been made during the quarter century between the two pens.

 

Two great pens, each representing the state of the art at a given moment in time.

 

Another day older, more memory cells MIA: could you remind me what was state of the art with the 2000, not counting the name "Makrolon"?

Thanks,

gary

[Yuki Onitsura]

I'm to staying neutral; I deslike both pens in a somewhat same degree.

 

Likewise. The L2K is a great writer as is the Parker 51 (from most reports anyway, haven't had the pleasure of trying a 51). It's only the hooded nibs that really turn me off.

 

Yuki

Edited November 13, 2009 by Yuki Onitsura

[jar]

...a Lamy 2000 represents the state of the art in the mid to late 60s. Lots of technological and material advances had been made during the quarter century between the two pens.

 

Two great pens, each representing the state of the art at a given moment in time.

 

Another day older, more memory cells MIA: could you remind me what was state of the art with the 2000, not counting the name "Makrolon"?

Thanks,

gary

 

 

Gotta count that one I fear.

 

Back around the time the Lamy 2000 was introduced I was a young optician and we got in a new line of eyeglass frames from Germany. The really amazing thing was that they didn't just look like woodgrain (that had been done before) they also FELT like wood. They had texture. They were amazing and we found they really sold like crazy. The new textured plastics WERE a big thing.

 

This really was the state of the art then, new, exciting, unique.

 

There were other things less visible. Ink technology had changed since the 40s and the Lamy was designed around those newer inks. The inks reacted with the paper itself and so dried fast yet did not present the same drying issues in the pen and feed as the 1940s Quink.

 

It offered a piston fill as opposed to the older button fill or squeeze filler.

 

Then there was the design, clean, simple, no gold, no molded clip, no jewels.

[jniforat]

This is a joke, right? You voted the P51's nib to be worse than the lamy 2000's simply due to the fact you can't see the nib? These pens are old, some of their tipping has worn off. The tipping on the 2000's nib is flat, meaning it's more prone to skipping due to rotation. The 2000's nib is much wetter than the 51's and it is also much thicker, bleeding through many pages. imo, the only advantage the 2000 has over the 51 is ease of cleaning, as you just need to flush without cleaning the collector in the 51's hood.

 

Also

"Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more"

 

Most parker 51's can be had under $75... You can get maybe 3 user grade 51's for the price of 1 2000.

 

How many 51's can you get for under 75 dollars that can right perfectly and are in mint condition. Chances are you will need the pen restored and you need to pay for that too, and I include that in the price, it like a hidden fee. Many 2000 sell way below the retail of 160 USD, they too can be had in the 89 USD, and that is new, out of the box never been used. You can't compare a new, mint condition 2000 to a vintage 51 in terms of price.I have written with a 51 in very good condition and still it isn't close to the quality of the 2000. What is the thickness of your 2000? I have a sample of it written by me and do not notice bleedthrough on any pages, much less many.

 

i totally agree with henry louis, there is no reason that a p51 nib can is worse than a lamy 2k nib just because you cant see it. and there are quite a few p51's on here that can be had for under 50 dollars. and as for the repair and restoration, you can do that yourself for a fraction of the price a professional charges.

 

That part of the review factored in beauty as well as nib performance if you read it carefully.

 

i have to agree with Henry on this one -- it's extremely easy to find a parker 51 in excellent condition either here or on the marketplace for under, i would say instead of $75, $90. If you want a really nice one, contact jorgep1. i have two from him that are MINT and i bought them for about $80 each. My everyday user is a 51 that was $21 on ebay and it is in SUPERB condition except for the little jewel on top. A steal of a deal; however, it can be done.

[jniforat]

This is a joke, right? You voted the P51's nib to be worse than the lamy 2000's simply due to the fact you can't see the nib? These pens are old, some of their tipping has worn off. The tipping on the 2000's nib is flat, meaning it's more prone to skipping due to rotation. The 2000's nib is much wetter than the 51's and it is also much thicker, bleeding through many pages. imo, the only advantage the 2000 has over the 51 is ease of cleaning, as you just need to flush without cleaning the collector in the 51's hood.

 

Also

"Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more"

 

Most parker 51's can be had under $75... You can get maybe 3 user grade 51's for the price of 1 2000.

 

How many 51's can you get for under 75 dollars that can right perfectly and are in mint condition. Chances are you will need the pen restored and you need to pay for that too, and I include that in the price, it like a hidden fee. Many 2000 sell way below the retail of 160 USD, they too can be had in the 89 USD, and that is new, out of the box never been used. You can't compare a new, mint condition 2000 to a vintage 51 in terms of price.I have written with a 51 in very good condition and still it isn't close to the quality of the 2000. What is the thickness of your 2000? I have a sample of it written by me and do not notice bleedthrough on any pages, much less many.

 

i totally agree with henry louis, there is no reason that a p51 nib can is worse than a lamy 2k nib just because you cant see it. and there are quite a few p51's on here that can be had for under 50 dollars. and as for the repair and restoration, you can do that yourself for a fraction of the price a professional charges.

 

That part of the review factored in beauty as well as nib performance if you read it carefully.

 

 

if you read Henry's review he is saying the following: why is the lamy2k better than the parker 51 when the parker 51 isn't nearly as sensitive as the 2k and it seems that, at the end of the day, that rating is just based on aesthetics and not performance (for Henry, who is familiar with the 2k and 51). If you read it carefully, it's clear this is what he is saying.

 

I've never tried a 2k but haven't had one problem with my 51--i'm always on the sweet spot.

[Bill Smith]

As an owner of a Lamy 2000 and 16+ Parker 51s I think you are tap dancing through a minefield. The Lamy Y2K has more in common with the Pelikan M30, Aurora 88P and the Mont Blanc 31/32/72 in terms of design especially with the piston filler and how the hooded nibs were designed.

 

The Parker 51 was designed upwards three decades earlier with different materials and manufacturing processes and was a really high end pen when introduced in the early 1940s.

[Silvermink]

Personally, I don't mind the look of the 51's fully-hooded nib, but I've found it makes it difficult at times to find and stay on the sweet spot, especially when the sweet spot is on the small side to begin with.

 

The 2000 has a pretty small sweet spot too, though.

[mkkm19912002]

It doesn't matter what era it was made them. I just compared them based on the fact that they were hooded nibbed pens!

[mkkm19912002]

This is a joke, right? You voted the P51's nib to be worse than the lamy 2000's simply due to the fact you can't see the nib? These pens are old, some of their tipping has worn off. The tipping on the 2000's nib is flat, meaning it's more prone to skipping due to rotation. The 2000's nib is much wetter than the 51's and it is also much thicker, bleeding through many pages. imo, the only advantage the 2000 has over the 51 is ease of cleaning, as you just need to flush without cleaning the collector in the 51's hood.

 

Also

"Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more"

 

Most parker 51's can be had under $75... You can get maybe 3 user grade 51's for the price of 1 2000.

 

How many 51's can you get for under 75 dollars that can right perfectly and are in mint condition. Chances are you will need the pen restored and you need to pay for that too, and I include that in the price, it like a hidden fee. Many 2000 sell way below the retail of 160 USD, they too can be had in the 89 USD, and that is new, out of the box never been used. You can't compare a new, mint condition 2000 to a vintage 51 in terms of price.I have written with a 51 in very good condition and still it isn't close to the quality of the 2000. What is the thickness of your 2000? I have a sample of it written by me and do not notice bleedthrough on any pages, much less many.

 

i totally agree with henry louis, there is no reason that a p51 nib can is worse than a lamy 2k nib just because you cant see it. and there are quite a few p51's on here that can be had for under 50 dollars. and as for the repair and restoration, you can do that yourself for a fraction of the price a professional charges.

 

That part of the review factored in beauty as well as nib performance if you read it carefully.

 

i have to agree with Henry on this one -- it's extremely easy to find a parker 51 in excellent condition either here or on the marketplace for under, i would say instead of $75, $90. If you want a really nice one, contact jorgep1. i have two from him that are MINT and i bought them for about $80 each. My everyday user is a 51 that was $21 on ebay and it is in SUPERB condition except for the little jewel on top. A steal of a deal; however, it can be done.

 

 

 

 

Depends on the model of the pen. THere were so many made, 150 is just as good an estimate as 75-90!

[mkkm19912002]

This is a joke, right? You voted the P51's nib to be worse than the lamy 2000's simply due to the fact you can't see the nib? These pens are old, some of their tipping has worn off. The tipping on the 2000's nib is flat, meaning it's more prone to skipping due to rotation. The 2000's nib is much wetter than the 51's and it is also much thicker, bleeding through many pages. imo, the only advantage the 2000 has over the 51 is ease of cleaning, as you just need to flush without cleaning the collector in the 51's hood.

 

Also

"Parker 51 8/10: Since it's vintage, this pen goes for around 150 USD or more"

 

Most parker 51's can be had under $75... You can get maybe 3 user grade 51's for the price of 1 2000.

 

How many 51's can you get for under 75 dollars that can right perfectly and are in mint condition. Chances are you will need the pen restored and you need to pay for that too, and I include that in the price, it like a hidden fee. Many 2000 sell way below the retail of 160 USD, they too can be had in the 89 USD, and that is new, out of the box never been used. You can't compare a new, mint condition 2000 to a vintage 51 in terms of price.I have written with a 51 in very good condition and still it isn't close to the quality of the 2000. What is the thickness of your 2000? I have a sample of it written by me and do not notice bleedthrough on any pages, much less many.

 

i totally agree with henry louis, there is no reason that a p51 nib can is worse than a lamy 2k nib just because you cant see it. and there are quite a few p51's on here that can be had for under 50 dollars. and as for the repair and restoration, you can do that yourself for a fraction of the price a professional charges.

 

That part of the review factored in beauty as well as nib performance if you read it carefully.

 

 

if you read Henry's review he is saying the following: why is the lamy2k better than the parker 51 when the parker 51 isn't nearly as sensitive as the 2k and it seems that, at the end of the day, that rating is just based on aesthetics and not performance (for Henry, who is familiar with the 2k and 51). If you read it carefully, it's clear this is what he is saying.

 

I've never tried a 2k but haven't had one problem with my 51--i'm always on the sweet spot.

 

 

 

 

 

I have both pens too, HenryLouis just always likes to say the opposite of everything else. And NO, what brought the rating for the P51's nib down was that the Lamy 2000's was FAR Superior to it, sometimes when I write with my P51, it's so rough and has SOOOO much tooth, it REALLY hurts my hand.

[mkkm19912002]

I'd also like to note that the Parker 51 was hand lathed; I don't think Lamy does that with the 2000.

 

Also there is that metal section which is slippery.

 

One more thing, I agree with gary's comment. How many people will tell you that Parker makes the best pens in the world? They won't ever hear about Lamy, even though the 2000 has been in production since 1966?

 

 

 

 

The 2000 is still far smoother.

[mkkm19912002]

The problem with a head-to-head review like this is that each pen is so idiosyncratic that it's really just a comparison of those two specific pens rather than of the models. I was very surprised by the comments on writing properties, as I find my 2000 much less tolerant of rotation in all axes than almost all 51's I've had to do with and with one exception (surprisingly, from England) the firm 51 points seem at least as smooth if not moreso than the 2000. A 51 that dribbles when fully filled has something wrong with it, too, and shouldn't be taken as an exemplar of the model.

 

I find complaints about the slippery metal section of the 2000 rather odd, too-- are you really holding it that low, that your fingers even touch the metal fore-end?

 

 

 

 

It doesn't dribble, it's just a messy fill!

[hcsk8ter]

First, to echo MYU, no review is a joke. It takes time and effort to review pens, an unpaid service if you will.

 

I commend mkkm19912002 for his "bold" review.

 

The P51 has a "finnicky" following. It has it's lovers and those that don't. It's kind of an all or nothing pen. Being so, it's followers will defend it to their deaths.

 

I myself am a P51 enthusiast. I have several high end models like the signet and numerous double jewel versions. Being a well-versed restorer, they work flawlessly and effortlessly. I cannot envision my writing world without them.

 

Although it would not surface on its own accord, I can see the comparison to the Lamy 2000. Vintage vs. Modern can always be a dicey roll in the opinion poll, but good for you.

 

I will add, I've seen both models and would have to agree that the craftsmanship on the P51 outdoes the Lamy 2000. P51's lucite hand-turned barrels and Gold, Sterling and other appointments were done by hand, whereas, the Lamy 2ks build is cheaper and the quality is not as spot on.

 

Just my opinion and thank you for your review.

Edited November 17, 2009 by hcsk8ter

[lmederos]

I've been using some P51's recently and they vary from excellent to maddeningly inconsistent because of the tiny sweet spot.

...

 

To me, the P51 wins, and is the overall better daily user and workhorse pen, but neither the P51 nor the Lamy 2000 approach the perfection of my Aurora 88.

 

 

I recently bought my first Parker, and have to admit it has been frustrating to deal with the sweet spot -- when you get on the sweet spot, it writes great, otherwise it is a pain. I thought it was mine !!

 

on an aside: I have to agree that the Aurora 88 is awesome. My 88s are fast becoming my favorite pens, along with my recently acquired Targa flighter.

 

 

As we have seen, what is the "best pen" is subjective, so I concur on the request for civility.

Edited November 18, 2009 by lmederos

[Bluto Carpaccio]

Oh, great. Now I have to get a Lamy 2K to compare to my P51. Maybe three or four 2K's so i can compare to my four p51's. And I suppose I'll need to get an Aurora 88 to compare to the 2K's and the P51's, as well as to my Talentum. Maybe I should get a few 88's, too, just to equilibrate the sample sizes. Might as well get few more Talentums as well. Will this never end? Can anyone recommend some colors?

 

Nice review, keep it up (I'm sending you the invoices), BC

Edited November 18, 2009 by Bluto Carpaccio

[HenryLouis]

hmn, by aurora 88 do you all mean the vintage one? does the modern one compete with the vintage in terms of quality?