Which Is The Smoothest Of Nakaya Nibs?

[jigesh]

I am contemplating my first Nakaya (a Neo Standard) and my research on this forum and elsewhere leads to be pointing to (i) Nakaya nibs other than Broad and thicker tend to be non-smooth and/or scratchy (ii) Nakaya flex is not like vintage flex, etc. So, I seek an advice for nib selection based on my following habits/goals: I am looking for a regular writer, preferablu wet and smooth like Sailor, I prefer thickness upto Asian Medium (or European Fine), Extra Fine is good but shouldn't have extra-tooth, and if possible, good flex (not springiness by special cut on the nib-sides) would be desireable so that if I try, I can get stroke variation.

 

Thank you for yuor help.

[Siv]

I will pass down some knowledge that was given to me by a Nibmeister:

 

Fine/Extra Fine nibs will be scratchy as they drag across the fibres in page. With a heavy pen, the vibrations caused by the nib/fibre interaction may be dulled so a fine nib in a heavy pen will feel smoother. A Nakaya is a very light pen so the transmission of the vibrations will be more efficienct than a heavy pen making the nib feel scratchy.

 

I have Nakayas in EF, soft F, M and B. The EF and F are scratchy whereas the M and B are smooth. In fact the B is lovely to write with and is really not that much broader than a M. It was for this reason that I had the M stubbed and now it's a lovely writer with lots of character. When I had the M stubbed, I also had the EF and F looked at. A small tweak and they are smoother but still with a lot of feel. I don't think this can go away unless the pen gets heavier or my touch gets lighter.

 

The picture shows all the nibs but before the M was stubbed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2461/3845809054_d660cb4a20.jpg

[jigesh]

Thank you, Siv for excellent details and information...

[Doug C]

Siv's comments are dead on. My fine is a pretty scratchy nib, while my medium is smoother, but seems to be rough when you push rather than pull the nib (bear in mind that I am a left handed underwriter).

 

My next Nakaya will be a broad for the same reason.

 

Not sure why, but I have 2 Dani's with flex, and both Nakayas are the flex nibs, and I write better with the Dani's.

 

My next Nakaya will probably be a stiffer nib.

[jigesh]

Thank you, Doug. I got some time to try few Nakaya soft and "hard" nibs at the NYC Pen Show yesterday - thanks to John Mottishaw. Nakaya soft is not exactly what we conventionally call flex, and while I liked it, I did not love it somehow to seal the deal on the spot. Even regular medium seemed to have some tooth. I did not try any broad - I think I should have. Sailor, though lighter, has less tooth in my opionon; but Neo has the perfect length/girth for my hands as it has size similar to MB 146 and Pelikan M800. Decisions...decisions...

[manolo]

I am also considering a Nakaya and I'm a bit worried about these comments...How can a pen that expensive be scratchy? Isn't it tuned by hand according to your order? Isn't it supposed to be among the best nibs?

 

Siv's picture is very helpful. The Broad is the one I like the most, as it allows the ink to "express herself", if you understand me. I have emailed Nakaya asking for writing samples of their medium-stub and broad-stub, as I haven't found them anywhere. Let's see if they answer back. Any of you have one of those stubs?

[jigesh]

I am also considering a Nakaya and I'm a bit worried about these comments...How can a pen that expensive be scratchy? Isn't it tuned by hand according to your order? Isn't it supposed to be among the best nibs?...

 

Since you like Broad, the general concensus is that it should not be scratchy. Stub has thinner horizontal strokes so if you are not used to, you may find it having tooth on horizontal strokes. I have Waterman Carene in Stub and I love it.

 

Regarding scratchiness, I think Siv's information makes sense:

 

Fine/Extra Fine nibs will be scratchy as they drag across the fibres in page. With a heavy pen, the vibrations caused by the nib/fibre interaction may be dulled so a fine nib in a heavy pen will feel smoother. A Nakaya is a very light pen so the transmission of the vibrations will be more efficienct than a heavy pen making the nib feel scratchy.

 

F, EF, XXXF nibs can tend to be on drier side and needle-like (toothy) irrespective of the brand names. As for Nakaya's price, it's still cheaper than Danitrios when comparing standard/similar Japanese models. I think most of the cost goes to manual labor, customization and material as the nib doesn't seem that special from the looks/material point of view. John Mottishaw could further customize the nib characteristics (ink flow, stroke-width, etc.) if you wish.

 

In the "Fountain Pen Review" section, you will find few writing samples of Nakaya nibs.

[jigesh]

....I have emailed Nakaya asking for writing samples of their medium-stub and broad-stub, as I haven't found them anywhere. Let's see if they answer back...

 

 

While not exactly what you want, but here are few writing samples from Nakaya.

[marie9999]

Check out the videos on Mottishaw's www.nibs.com website - he writes with 2 Nakaya's and I ended up changing my mind after watching them in use and going up in width - I'm typically a fine line writer but will definitely go with a medium if not bigger... but obviously a video can not compare to holding / trying one at a Penshow.

[marie9999]

Oh and by the way Siv - I am so envious of your collection! My husband asked if we should add my fp's to the homeowner's policy after my last acquistion - do you add yours?

 

Thanks - Marie

[AltecGreen]

I am also considering a Nakaya and I'm a bit worried about these comments...How can a pen that expensive be scratchy? Isn't it tuned by hand according to your order? Isn't it supposed to be among the best nibs?

 

Siv's picture is very helpful. The Broad is the one I like the most, as it allows the ink to "express herself", if you understand me. I have emailed Nakaya asking for writing samples of their medium-stub and broad-stub, as I haven't found them anywhere. Let's see if they answer back. Any of you have one of those stubs?

 

 

I have several observations on the Nakaya nibs.

 

For any given size class, the Nakaya/Platinum nibs run very small even amongst other Japanese manufacturers. People will get a Nakaya and the nib arrives a lot finer than they expect. The finer the nib, the less pressure you should apply.

 

The Nakaya nibs give a bit of feedback. A lot of this feedback is audible and not tactile. I make a distinction between feedback and scratchy. I can use my Nakayas on several different grades of paper and the feedback is different on each type of paper. I can probably blindfold myself and write on each paper and identify each paper by the sound of the nib on the paper. However, this is not always what people want. If your idea of a good nib is one where you do not feel the paper and hear nothing, then a Nakaya might not be the best choice. An apt analogy is a car with a tight sports suspension. You will feel the road, the bumps, the roughness of the road, etc. The opposite spectrum is a car with a really soft suspension like a big American car from the 50's-60's. The passengers are isolated from the road and gives an almost air cushioned ride. The difference between the two is that the sports suspension gives control. I find that my handwriting is far better and crisper with the Nakaya than with say an Omas which is absolutely buttery smooth. So the Nakaya ends up being my go to pen.

 

It is true that the Nakaya come with tuning. But tuning is only as good as the communication between the tuner and the customer. You have to really understand the way you write, the way you want the pen to write and make it clear to the tuner. This is probably going to be difficult if you go directly through Nakaya unless you speak Japanese. It works really well if you visit them in person in Japan because they can usually get it right if the nib person is able to observe you writing. For your first Nakaya, I recommend going through John Mottishaw.

[jigesh]

Check out the videos on Mottishaw's www.nibs.com website - he writes with 2 Nakaya's and I ended up changing my mind after watching them in use and going up in width - I'm typically a fine line writer but will definitely go with a medium if not bigger... but obviously a video can not compare to holding / trying one at a Penshow.

 

 

Thank you; somehow I missed videos, but here they are for those interested.

[manolo]

I am also considering a Nakaya and I'm a bit worried about these comments...How can a pen that expensive be scratchy? Isn't it tuned by hand according to your order? Isn't it supposed to be among the best nibs?

 

Siv's picture is very helpful. The Broad is the one I like the most, as it allows the ink to "express herself", if you understand me. I have emailed Nakaya asking for writing samples of their medium-stub and broad-stub, as I haven't found them anywhere. Let's see if they answer back. Any of you have one of those stubs?

 

 

I have several observations on the Nakaya nibs.

 

For any given size class, the Nakaya/Platinum nibs run very small even amongst other Japanese manufacturers. People will get a Nakaya and the nib arrives a lot finer than they expect. The finer the nib, the less pressure you should apply.

 

The Nakaya nibs give a bit of feedback. A lot of this feedback is audible and not tactile. I make a distinction between feedback and scratchy. I can use my Nakayas on several different grades of paper and the feedback is different on each type of paper. I can probably blindfold myself and write on each paper and identify each paper by the sound of the nib on the paper. However, this is not always what people want. If your idea of a good nib is one where you do not feel the paper and hear nothing, then a Nakaya might not be the best choice. An apt analogy is a car with a tight sports suspension. You will feel the road, the bumps, the roughness of the road, etc. The opposite spectrum is a car with a really soft suspension like a big American car from the 50's-60's. The passengers are isolated from the road and gives an almost air cushioned ride. The difference between the two is that the sports suspension gives control. I find that my handwriting is far better and crisper with the Nakaya than with say an Omas which is absolutely buttery smooth. So the Nakaya ends up being my go to pen.

 

It is true that the Nakaya come with tuning. But tuning is only as good as the communication between the tuner and the customer. You have to really understand the way you write, the way you want the pen to write and make it clear to the tuner. This is probably going to be difficult if you go directly through Nakaya unless you speak Japanese. It works really well if you visit them in person in Japan because they can usually get it right if the nib person is able to observe you writing. For your first Nakaya, I recommend going through John Mottishaw.

 

 

Thank you for your contribution. I am exploring both possibilities: Mottishaw and Nakaya. The thing is, if I finally put some customised kanji on the pen, I think it will be faster to order it through Nakaya. Also, being in Spain as I am, custom charges will be the same using both ways, and Nakaya stub customisation is cheaper. I haven't decided yet, though.

[AltecGreen]

 

 

Thank you for your contribution. I am exploring both possibilities: Mottishaw and Nakaya. The thing is, if I finally put some customised kanji on the pen, I think it will be faster to order it through Nakaya. Also, being in Spain as I am, custom charges will be the same using both ways, and Nakaya stub customisation is cheaper. I haven't decided yet, though.

 

 

If you really want a stub, then I would go through John Mottishaw for sure. The real issue is that the Japanese really don't use stubs nibs. While Pilot does make a few factory stubs and there are music nibs, these kinds of nibs are completely useless for writing Japanese. I do not get the impression that Nakaya (or any Japanese manufacturer) have the best grasp of a stub nib. John Mottishaw does have lots of experience with stub nibs. If you are interested in line variation, you might want to consider the music nib. The Platinum/Nakaya music nib is one of the best and functions very much like a stub. I would recommend the music nib over a stub.

[Painterspal]

I couldn't agree more. I haven't experienced the Nakaya factory stub, but the stub John Mottishaw made for me from a Nakaya firm bold for my Decapod is sublime. I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

I have two other Nakayas. Both have medium nibs, one the softer version, and were bought direct from Nakaya. Both are excellent western fine nibs offering great ink flow, significant feedback, not toothy, but not completely smooth either. I have adjusted both to my personal taste and like them a lot. The soft version offers a little hint of line variation - it adds a touch of vitality to my writing, but nothing like the character I get from a Danitrio flexible nib - but I like the slight cushioning that the nib provides - it's very pleasant to write with. However, I like the firm version too, although neither is as nice as the Mottishaw stub.

 

By the way, I really like my Neo Standard and hope you enjoy yours.

[English John]

I have just ordered a Neo Standard with a broad cut to a stub , in Aka-tamenuri (reddish-red), from Nibs.com

 

I don't know delivery times as yet.

 

Is anyone doing a of the Neo Standard in the near future ?

A comparison with the Dani Trio would be interesting.

[sallywally]

I keep losing this reply, so I'm going to make it fast. I have small writing and love fine nibs. I like a bit of feedback but no scratchiness at all. I have a Sailor with their Saibi Togi nib, which is essentially an XXF or XXXF nib. It is wonderful as long as I don't press down hard on the paper. I think my small writing makes it possible for me to write with a light touch. I think the "scratchiness" thing has a lot to do with people whose writing style and size doesn't suit a small nib - but I don't find very fine nibs scratchy unless I really press with them.

[troglokev]

My experience is similar to Sallywally's. I use fine nibs all the time, and have few issues with scratchiness. Like Sallywally, I don't exert much writing force: it's important to remember that you need much less force when writing with a fine nib.

 

The Saibi Togi is the extreme case: its line width is about half that of a regular fine: its contact area is a quarter that of a fine. Thus, you need a quarter of the writing force to use it (which takes a bit of getting used to). Once you learn to write accordingly it's a great pen. Some people don't, of course.

[sallywally]

My experience is similar to Sallywally's. I use fine nibs all the time, and have few issues with scratchiness. Like Sallywally, I don't exert much writing force: it's important to remember that you need much less force when writing with a fine nib.

 

The Saibi Togi is the extreme case: its line width is about half that of a regular fine: its contact area is a quarter that of a fine. Thus, you need a quarter of the writing force to use it (which takes a bit of getting used to). Once you learn to write accordingly it's a great pen. Some people don't, of course.

Yes, these very, very fine nibs are wonderful! I am thinking of getting another Sailor with the Saibi Togi. So nice.

[Virgo Thing]

Siv, more information on the bottom Danitrio w/ the fine nib in the picture you posted. What Danitrio is that?! It's godly!