Nib-smoothing phail.

[Sailor Kenshin]

What am I doing wrong?

 

I got one of those nib-smoothing kits (along with a couple of practice pens), and both my attempts made the nibs MORE scratchy.

 

Was I smoothing too much? Too little?

 

I tried smoothing a Sheaffer NN and a Preppy. (Most of my Preppys write beautifully but the yellow one was just ick.).

 

I'm using the matte side of the material---and an inked pen dipped in water, making little circles on the material.

 

Sooo phail.

[Lloyd]

Did you align the tines beforehand?

[Inka]

Which kit did you get, my Sailor-K friend?

If you've purchased the micromesh you'll have trouble to no end.

The best thing to use, when just smoothing, not grinding, are the thin Mylar sheets, they'll make your nibs gliding!

So if micromesh used, still no need to despair, with the right Mylar sheeting your nibs you'll repair.

So give me a shout and say what you have used, it sounds like it's fixable, so just don't blow a fuse.

I’ll be happy to help you just as soon as I know, the materials you've used, we can fix this, I know!

 

[Inka]

Did you align the tines beforehand?

Good point, to always make sure nib tips are aligned prior to any work or smoothing.

Spot-on correct, Lloyd!

 

[rsilver000]

Also look at the nib with a loupe and smooth slowly. A common mistake is to take off too much material from the nib all at once. Remember you are smoothing not doing a regrind. Take a few strokes on the appropriate micromesh and then put the nib to paper, repeat as needed until the nib is as smooth as you like.

 

I do my own grinds (I like stubs!) and smoothing and it takes a bit of practice, but going slow is the key.

 

Cheers,

Rob

[alvarez57]

 

rsilver000

 

I do my own grinds (I like stubs!) and smoothing and it takes a bit of practice, but going slow is the key.

 

Applies until you get the 'Knack" for it. Slow and patience will do.

 

 

INKA

If you've purchased the micromesh you'll have trouble to no end.

The best thing to use, when just smoothing, not grinding, are the thin Mylar sheets, they'll make your nibs gliding!

So if micromesh used, still no need to despair, with the right Mylar sheeting your nibs you'll repair.

 

Ok, which mesh? Which Mylar? I bought a kit from Richard Binder:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/accessories/buffsticks/buffsticks.jpg

 

Is there a difference b/w this mesh (12,000 grit) and the Mylar? or is it the same thing?

 

Please advise

[Sailor Kenshin]

Which kit did you get, my Sailor-K friend?

If you've purchased the micromesh you'll have trouble to no end.

The best thing to use, when just smoothing, not grinding, are the thin Mylar sheets, they'll make your nibs gliding!

So if micromesh used, still no need to despair, with the right Mylar sheeting your nibs you'll repair.

So give me a shout and say what you have used, it sounds like it's fixable, so just don't blow a fuse.

I’ll be happy to help you just as soon as I know, the materials you've used, we can fix this, I know!

 

 

A poem! Kewl!

 

I got the Richard Binder kit: two sheets of whatever, one white, one green, plus two practice pens.

 

Don't have a loupe---the best I have is a big thick magnifying glass. And I don't know how to align the tines. Again, I'd be scared of making things worse. My 'glass' probably doesn't magnify enough to tell if they're out of alignment anyway.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Should I get a loupe, do you think?

[rsilver000]

 

A poem! Kewl!

 

I got the Richard Binder kit: two sheets of whatever, one white, one green, plus two practice pens.

 

Don't have a loupe---the best I have is a big thick magnifying glass. And I don't know how to align the tines. Again, I'd be scared of making things worse. My 'glass' probably doesn't magnify enough to tell if they're out of alignment anyway.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Should I get a loupe, do you think?

A magnifying glass should be enough to see what is happening with the tines. Look at them under the glass, the very tip of the tines should be exactly next to one another. If one is a bit above, gently bend the upward portion of the tine downward using your fingernail to align both tips. It doesn't take a lot of pressure. Look at it from angles using the glass. If all looks lined up then smooth away!

Rob

[psfred]

an 8x loupe is the absolute minimum, and a 15x is really just adequate. I prefer to use the stereo microscope at work so I can SEE what I'm doing.

 

Until you have the tipping correctly aligned, all you will do with abrasives is make a problem worse. The edges of the slit in the tipping will drag when the tips do not touch the paper simultaneously, not matter what condition the rest of the ball surface is in, and if they are mis-aligned, grinding will NOT make them even. Usually one rapidly grinds a flat on the nib, which then gives even more scratch, followed by grinding the rounded surface off the ball shape and putting an exposed sharp corner on the slit in the tipping, even more scratch.

 

I have only found a couple nibs that actually needed significant work with anything coarser than the finest polishing material you have. In all other cases, either the tipping was out of alignment and getting them correctly aligned made the nib super smooth with nothing else needed. Mind you, some of them have twisted tines, which can make it almost impossible to get the tipping aligned, not something a novice nib repair person is likely to get corrected on the first try.

 

I have had to grind a few nibs -- one had a defect in the tipping that caused it to drag badly, and the others required removal of sharp corners on flats and/or removing the sharp edge on a nib slit to cure some scratchiness.

 

My advise, again, is to only use abrasives when you have determined that there is a specific portion of material that needs to be removed, and to make sure you can clearly see what you want to do and check often to see that you accomplishing exactly what you want to do. Very fine polishing materials will remove the "hiss" and rough feel from a nib, but should not remove more than a tiny amount of tipping. Any scratch, and you don't have a nib smoothing issue, you have an alignment issue unless there is a defect in one or both tips.

 

Peter

[Inka]

...

I got the Richard Binder kit: two sheets of whatever, one white, one green, plus two practice pens.

 

Don't have a loupe---the best I have is a big thick magnifying glass. And I don't know how to align the tines. Again, I'd be scared of making things worse. My 'glass' probably doesn't magnify enough to tell if they're out of alignment anyway.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Should I get a loupe, do you think?

Ooops, forgot to click Track this topic and it got lost in the mail, um, was not notified of replies [d'oh!].

 

Well you got the right sheets to to the right job, the green sheet is @ 1 micron [use first] and the white is the finer or @ .3 micron abrasives [for finishing], perfect sizes for most nib smoothing!

The key word in tip alignment before smoothing is "gentle", as you don't want to flex a tine too far and have it spring past the point of return, making a crease that will be catching light and saying "Hey, look at me! I was overextended.".

As Richard points out, and as I'd found before I'd read his tip, look at the tips at an angle instead of straight-on into them or from top or bottom, makes it easier to see the tips are either aligned or off-alignment.

I'm still not much good at using MS Paint, should have hand-drawn a diagram and scanned same, but hope this makes sense...

 

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/InkaFX/TineTipAlignment.jpg

 

A loupe is a very good investment for nib work, actually a "must-have" if you plan to do this properly and more than once.

Highly recommended getting @ 20x, maybe a 10X for quick inspections since it would have a longer field of view/focal length than a 20-30X will have [i need my 20X "almost" touching what I'm looking at, only has @ 1/4"-1/2" focal length!] .

 

Fixing flow issues is another lesson, if dry and skipping flow needs be increased and if wet decreased, by changing slot width and angle of opening to tips.

 

P.S.;

It's a good idea when working tines and "especially" when nib is still attached to feed to grasp the feed & nib between your opposite thumb and edge of forefinger near 1/2 way point from tips to breather hole.

If you bend the tine/s too far, against the feed edge, it's more likely to fold over the edge of the feed and crease the tine/s than if the nib is detached from the feed & section while flexing.

Another thing is if the tine tips are badly out of alignment, it's a good idea to press one and lift the other to get them to line up, rather than possibly overextending one to match up with the other.

You also don't want to lift one tine up so far it no longer makes contact with the feed, causing loss of capillary action between the feed top and nib underside.

 

Edited September 3, 2009 by Inka

[Sailor Kenshin]

Thank you! The illo makes it clear!

[Inka]

My pleasure, sorry I was slow on the "draw".

I hope it helps.

[alvarez57]

Ok, let me see if I refrase my question and excuse my lack of knowledge but I'm trying to learn here

 

What is the grit in a Mylar as opposed to the 12,000?

Thanks.

[ZeissIkon]

Ok, let me see if I refrase my question and excuse my lack of knowledge but I'm trying to learn here

 

What is the grit in a Mylar as opposed to the 12,000?

Thanks.

 

Very roughly, 12000 is similar to 1 micron, but the micromesh is carborundum ("sharper") while the mylar is, IIRC, aluminum oxide ("softer").

[alvarez57]

Ok, let me see if I refrase my question and excuse my lack of knowledge but I'm trying to learn here

 

What is the grit in a Mylar as opposed to the 12,000?

Thanks.

 

Very roughly, 12000 is similar to 1 micron, but the micromesh is carborundum ("sharper") while the mylar is, IIRC, aluminum oxide ("softer").

 

 

Thanks.

And again, 20x loupe will help you very much to see well your nib; know that the depth of field is very, very much reduced. It took me a while to get used to it but I would have regretted if I had only the 10x for nib grinding.

Edited September 5, 2009 by alvarez57

[Inka]

Ok, let me see if I refrase my question and excuse my lack of knowledge but I'm trying to learn here

 

What is the grit in a Mylar as opposed to the 12,000?

Thanks.

 

The heavier abrasive Mylar sheet [dark gray or 9 micron] typically starts @ the same as the finer micro-mesh sheet or @ 12000 grit.

If you get the Mylar smoothing kit, it goes from @ the 12000 [dark gray sheet in 9 micron] to the finest [white or .3 micron].

Here's the Mylar ratings;

Dark Gray = 9 micron

Gray = 5 micron

Light Gray = 3 micron

Green = 1 micron

White = .3 micron

 

There are sheets available down to .1 micron as well [maybe finer but I've not seen them myself], often used in aeronautics for finishing the skins of airplanes and jets to reduce drag, the enemy of air flight especially at higher speeds.

Typically nothing finer than .3 micron is needed for a fountain pen nib and sometimes if used properly the heavier grits can do just as good a job as the finer ones [sometimes using a sheet that's a bit worn can also give smoother results].

 

EDIT: For miswording.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Inka

[Miranda]

Thanks everyone for giving me the confidence to grab my nibs by their tines and realign them!!!!

 

I was just looking at the misaligned tine on my Pelikan 400 NN [ I think, mid-1950s] this morning wondering if I would ever get them aligned. But with the aid of inka's great illustration, I now have a smoothly writing pen.

 

One of the problems for me has been 'gently'. My 'gently' was probably too gentle, too feeble. The idea of above the other tine and it springing back into place next to its twin makes the process much clearer.

 

Of course, the pen was nearly empty of fuschia coloured ink and i dipped it in momiji, a sort of burgundy, so my fingers look like i have gone a few rounds with the kitchen knives!

[Inka]

...with the aid of inka's great illustration, I now have a smoothly writing pen. ...

... i dipped it in momiji, a sort of burgundy, so my fingers look like i have gone a few rounds with the kitchen knives!

Thank you for the recognition that my trying to help actually has helped, gives me the confidence to keep trying my best to do so.

That one little diagram took me over an hour to create using MS Paint [not really familiar with it yet], whereas using my old CAD for PC peripherals I could have knocked it out in seconds.

 

Inky fingers, like having battled with your knives, ... sorry & no offense obviously but that put an ear to ear smile on my face, while mentally visualizing it and knowing it's all good, it's just ink!

Been there, done that, I will do it again; I don't have any ink eradicators but a [f]ew drops of Dawn liquid dish soap on a wet & mostly worn out Scotch-Brite sponge usually takes it all off my fingers quite easily, JFYI.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Inka

[ZeissIkon]

Inky fingers, like having battled with your knives, ... sorry & no offense obviously but that put an ear to ear smile on my face, while mentally visualizing it and knowing it's all good, it's just ink!

Been there, done that, I will do it again; I don't have any ink eradicators but a [f]ew drops of Dawn liquid dish soap on a wet & mostly worn out Scotch-Brite sponge usually takes it all off my fingers quite easily, JFYI.

 

Other good choices for quick ink removal: a few drops of commercial shampoo, any hand cleaner (say, from an auto parts store) containing limonene (typically labeled as "orange" cleaners -- limonene is derived from citrus fruit rinds), or any common soap containing grit (I use Boraxo, which has small borax crystals in the powdered soap, but pumice loaded bar soap should work well, too); the grit helps the soap get into the ridges of the fingers and palm to remove the ink that would otherwise be impossible to wash off with ordinary soap and water (my hypothesis is that shampoo and dish liquid do the same job without grit because they're exceptionally efficient surfactants).

[Inka]

... any hand cleaner (say, from an auto parts store) containing limonene (typically labeled as "orange" cleaners -- limonene is derived from citrus fruit rinds), ...

Thanks!!!

:thumbup:

I have gobs of "water-less" hand-cleaners from my mechanical/machinist days, back when getting and cleaning greasy, filthy hands was a daily ritual for me.

There's a container of this various stuff in every single tool box I own [and I own several tool boxes], had never occurred to me to even try this stuff for inky finger cleaning [d'uh!].

I even have several spray cleaners with orange oils in them and not once have I thought to use them to try cleaning inky fingers [another d'uh and I'll toss in a Homer "D'oh!" just for good measure].

I keep a plastic squeeze container of Castrol Super Clean [has both citrus & pumice powder in it] in my SUV console for such times a roadside mechanical fix comes up and I need to get the road grime and nasties off my hands when there's no water around, just rub it in and wipe off with a paper towel [always keep a roll of PT in my vehicle too].

I can't believe I've not once [thought] to try any of these on "inky fingers".

Edited September 6, 2009 by Inka