Silicone Grease (another one)

[Chthulhu]

The stuff I have is "Dow Corning #4 Electrical Insulating Compound" (NOT heat sink compound). The description is thus: "Grease like material containing an inert silica filler in combination with selected polydimethyl silicone fluids." It's very slick, nearly clear, and I've been using it on o-rings and plastics for twenty years as an assembly lube. More information is here:

 

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/sea...8&type=prod

 

What does FPN think? Suitable for fountain pens or no?

[Ron Z]

What does FPN think? Suitable for fountain pens or no?

 

NO.

 

Forgive me if this sounds a bit cranky, but really folks, silicone grease is not that hard to find, is not that expensive, and is known to be safe. You can in many cases, buy it locally, or can order it from any one of a number of sources. I don't sell silicone grease, and don't profit in any way from my recommendation. But I do have an interest in seeing pens survive for generations pas my own. We're working with aging and sometimes fragile materials.

 

Please quit looking for substitutes and use the right stuff.

[hari317]

What does FPN think? Suitable for fountain pens or no?

 

NO.

<...>

Please quit looking for substitutes and use the right stuff.

 

But can you tell us why the above product is no good for pens?

 

Every silicone grease available in the market including the diving shop "pure silicone grease" is a mixture of a silicone fluid(usually polydimethylsiloxane aka PDMS) and some filler. This filler will determine the viscosity of the silicone in the grease form, the above product has a NLGI grade of 2 making it relatively harder(more thicker-lesser penetration.) The #4 compound is probably the most famous silicone product that Dow corning manufactures.

[Kelly G]

I use Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease and it has proven safe for the pens I've repaired. From what I can tell from the material safety data sheet, it is pure silicon grease, which is silica with the filler that gives it the viscosity, as stated above. Here is the link to the MSDS:

http://www1.dowcorning.com/DataFiles/090007b28124ebf5.pdf

 

 

All silicon grease is a compound - the question is, what's in the compound. I would bet pretty good money that most silicon grease sold in dive shops and other outlets is a re-packaged Dow Corning product, such as the High Vacuum Grease - which is designed for use in laboratories and other industrial settings where glass and O-rings are used. You can buy the stuff in drums if you wish. I have the 5 oz tube which should last beyond my lifetime.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Kelly G

[Flounder]

I just don'tknow what to think any more!

[Possum Hill]

What does FPN think? Suitable for fountain pens or no?

 

NO.

 

Forgive me if this sounds a bit cranky, but really folks, silicone grease is not that hard to find, is not that expensive, and is known to be safe. You can in many cases, buy it locally, or can order it from any one of a number of sources. I don't sell silicone grease, and don't profit in any way from my recommendation. But I do have an interest in seeing pens survive for generations pas my own. We're working with aging and sometimes fragile materials.

 

Please quit looking for substitutes and use the right stuff.

It appears that silicone oil thickened with silica is the right stuff and that many of the products mentioned qualify as pure silicone grease in that sense.

[Pen2009]

If I were you, I would go for a real thing. No need to subject your pens to potential damage. The product is cheap and it's not worth cutting corners to save a few bucks.

 

 

http://www.unrealfind.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/acc47.jpg

Edited August 16, 2009 by Pen2009

[Possum Hill]

If I were you, I would go for a real thing. No need to subject your pens to potential damage. The product is cheap and it's not worth cutting corners to save a few bucks.

 

 

http://www.unrealfind.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/acc47.jpg

If the grease specifies the oil, the thickener and the grade (thickness), I don't see how you can go wrong.

 

Since the grease sold specifically for pen maintenance by reputable dealers and the grease sold for scuba gear has been shown to work, even though its specifications and origin aren't known, there's probably not a problem with using it, even though the specifications are vague.

 

Under other circumstances I'd regard those products with suspicion and consider them at least one long step removed from the real thing. I doubt that there is any silicone grease manufactured for which use in fountain pens is even a remote consideration.

 

So, what grease are we actually buying in those little containers? Is it always the same?

[Richard]

I've just done the research that other posters appear not to have done. The stuff in question is a food-grade silicone grease, and it's safe for pens. It also happens to cost not quite twice as much as the food-grade silicone grease I use. You're paying a lot for the Dow name, and you're not getting a product that's better for the application in question. Why would you do this?

[Possum Hill]

I've just done the research that other posters appear not to have done. The stuff in question is a food-grade silicone grease, and it's safe for pens. It also happens to cost not quite twice as much as the food-grade silicone grease I use. You're paying a lot for the Dow name, and you're not getting a product that's better for the application in question. Why would you do this?

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere, closer to knowing exactly what has been used successfully.

 

Who makes it? What's in it? What is the thickness grade?

[Chthulhu]

I've just done the research that other posters appear not to have done. The stuff in question is a food-grade silicone grease, and it's safe for pens. It also happens to cost not quite twice as much as the food-grade silicone grease I use. You're paying a lot for the Dow name, and you're not getting a product that's better for the application in question. Why would you do this?

 

Only because I already have three 5.3 ounce (150 gram) tubes of the stuff on hand, otherwise I wouldn't have asked. You did, however, answer my question, and for that I do thank you. :-)

 

Doing my own research, I see Pendemonium (random example) sells silicone grease at $3 for a 1/3 oz container ($10.00 per ounce); McMaster-Carr sells the DC #4 stuff at $13.42 for the 5.3 oz tube ($2.53 per ounce), so it's actually only 1/4 the cost. It would certainly make sense for someone working on one or two pens to buy the smaller quantity, while someone who uses a lot of the stuff would be better served by buying the bigger tubes.

 

Again, I only asked because I already have some, otherwise I would simply have bought the smaller amount from one of the known dealers.

 

I think I can spare one of my three tubes; is anyone who is in sufficient need close enough to Escondido, California, to come and get it? :-)

Edited August 17, 2009 by Chthulhu

[Chthulhu]

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere, closer to knowing exactly what has been used successfully.

 

Who makes it? What's in it? What is the thickness grade?

 

I'm fairly certain Mr. Binder was referring to the Dow Corning product; all the information is at the link I posted up top there for anyone who cares to read it.

[Kelly G]

I've just done the research that other posters appear not to have done. The stuff in question is a food-grade silicone grease, and it's safe for pens. It also happens to cost not quite twice as much as the food-grade silicone grease I use. You're paying a lot for the Dow name, and you're not getting a product that's better for the application in question. Why would you do this?

 

So, Richard, what is the silicone grease you use?

 

As I indicated above, I use the Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease. I do so because I have a 5.3 oz tube that I was given by a pen friend, so the cost issue is moot. But you can buy a tube for 14.85 (Neely Industries) and that appears to be a near lifetime supply for all but heavy users - perhaps like yourself. That's $2.80/oz exclusive of shipping costs. I can buy the stuff locally in the tubes - but I may have been mistaken on the drums - at least for non-industrial purchasers. You can by a 3.64 kg pail if you need a lot.

[Richard]

For them as wants to know, I use Silchem grease, in an 8-oz tube.

[Possum Hill]

For them as wants to know, I use Silchem grease, in an 8-oz tube.

Once again, a definitive answer from Richard Binder. I think I see a pattern developing. Thanks!

[OldGriz]

For them as wants to know, I use Silchem grease, in an 8-oz tube.

Once again, a definitive answer from Richard Binder. I think I see a pattern developing. Thanks!

 

YEAH.... LISTEN to the experienced professional restorers... they know what they are talking about....

Something to do with lots of pens going through their hands and they making sure they are using the right materials to fix them.

[Johnny Appleseed]

An 8 oz tube of Silchem runs about $12.00 from online sources - that's $1.50 an ounce.

 

Not to be picky with Richard on this one - but while it is true the DC stuff is almost 2x more expensive than Silchem, the silicon grease sold by Pendemonium, Tryphon, dive shops et al. works out to be considerably more than either one. It seems odd to criticize the OP for using a much more economical product than that used by the typical repair-hobbiest, just because there is another option that is even cheaper (though the tip might perhaps be useful to some).

 

John

Edited August 17, 2009 by Johnny Appleseed

[Chthulhu]

John,

 

Richard's only expressed concern was that I was paying more than was necessary for the Dow Corning #4 grease, when in actuality I paid nothing at all for it; these were leftovers that would have been trashed when we closed the Escondido Snap-on Tools plant in March.

 

The only criticism I received wasn't from Richard, and was expressing annoyance that anyone would try to find a substitute for "the real thing." Again, I already had this stuff on hand, and just wanted to know whether it could be used on fountain pens. Had I not, I would have ordered one of the non-cost-effective little containers, or found some at Home Depot as was suggested elsewhere at FPN, and been perfectly happy about it.

 

The Silchem grease sounds close to the High Vacuum grease mentioned by KellyG; the DC #4 compound is probably not as thick.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Chthulhu

[Kelly G]

For them as wants to know, I use Silchem grease, in an 8-oz tube.

 

And the good news is that you can buy Silchem Silicone Grease in a 5 gallon pail!! That gets the price down to $0.62/oz. exclusive of shipping costs. Now that's some grease

 

Anyone want to buy in on a pail or two

 

Seriously, thanks Richard.

[Splicer]

I just went to the hardware store, following advice from another thread, and asked for silicone grease. There was a tremendous array of products, there, none of which had the word "grease" on it. The only products with the word "grease" were lithium grease, which I ignored. Many of these products indicated that once a seal was made, neither hell nor high water nor torque wrenches would break that seal. That also seemed not to be ideal for sealing the threads of an eyedropper-filler.

 

I explained that I was told to find the "most pure" silicone grease possible for waterproofing the threads of ebonite cylinders so that they could be later separated and resealed, the hardware man said, "oh, you don't want grease, you want plain silicone," and led me to an entirely different area of the store.

 

I walked out with Dow Corning 732 Multi-Purpose Sealant. The box claims it is "100% Silicone Rubber". More detail: "contains: 70131-67-8 Dimethyl siloxane, hydroxy-terminated 7631-86-9 Silica, amorphous. 4253-34-3 Methyltriacetoxysilane. 17689-77-9 Ethyltriacetoxysilane"

 

So: can I use this or do I have to take it back?