585 Nib?

[haziz]

What does 585 engraved on a nib signify? I see it engraved on many Pelikan nibs, both modern and vintage (e.g. my modern M400 and my vintage 140), but I also see it on other makes, at least German makes, for example Tropen.

 

Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

 

Hany.

[I am not a number]

It signifies the gold content in the nib, 585 means 58.5% gold content (which equates to 14 carat gold in the other system which is commonly used). By the same token, 750 would be 18 carat gold. Hope that helps!

[Tsujigiri]

14k is the standard gold content for a gold fountain pen nib. A large number of manufacturers have switched to 18k nibs in more recent years, but this is a marketing tactic rather than a functional improvement. 14k nibs can be better because they are more suited for flex.

[Glenn-SC]

14k is the standard gold content for a gold fountain pen nib.

I'd say "typical", not "the standard". Or at most standard with the little "s".

 

but this is a marketing tactic rather than a functional improvement.

really?

 

14k nibs can be better because they are more suited for flex.

And what evidence is there to support this statement?

[Artie]

14k is the standard gold content for a gold fountain pen nib. A large number of manufacturers have switched to 18k nibs in more recent years, but this is a marketing tactic rather than a functional improvement. 14k nibs can be better because they are more suited for flex.

 

 

I have heard that 18k is the lowest percentage of gold allowed in France and perhaps other countries for it to be called gold. 14k is more often seen in the US. 14k nibs are NOT more suited for flex. Flex is determined by lots of factors. The presence of gold isn't one of them.

[Glenn-SC]

Flex is determined by lots of factors. The presence of gold isn't one of them.

Flex is determined by the material of construction (in this case a metallic alloy) and hence the material properties of gold and the percent of it present is part of the equation.

[I am not a number]

Flex is also determined by the nib design, the thickness and a host of other factors.

 

Now play nicely.

[Glenn-SC]

Flex is also determined by the nib design, the thickness and a host of other factors.

Oh, I with you agree 100%.

 

And I thought that we were planning nicely .....

 

I am sorry if I gave the impression I wasn't.

[George]

Well, I know that Richard Binder and John Mottishaw both use 14k nibs only for Pelikan flex, and other nibs designated for flex - the gold content works much better than 18k for flex, so they say. Read this great segment of one of Richard's articles -

 

From Richard's site:

 

It happens that there is a gray zone in the range of alloys when measured by gold content. That zone falls around 14K (585). Alloys containing significantly more gold tend to lack some desirable qualities, most especially flexibility (the resilience to bend significantly and return to the original shape over and over again). Many 18K (750) nibs, for instance, are springy (“soft”), but that’s not true flexibility. People who believe the sales hype frequently end up sending their 18K nibs out for repair after they’ve sprung them by applying more pressure than the nibs could handle. As a rule, 18K alloys are too soft — bending too easily and staying bent — or too hard, resisting until the point of catastrophic failure. This is why responsible nib technicians refuse to add flexibility to 18K nibs

 

 

George

[Artie]

My point was that you can get very flexible nibs with no gold content at all. Gold isn't a requirement for a good flex in a nib. So OK now I see I misinterpreted the other posts. I will go quietly.

[Tsujigiri]

Well, I know that Richard Binder and John Mottishaw both use 14k nibs only for Pelikan flex, and other nibs designated for flex - the gold content works much better than 18k for flex, so they say. Read this great segment of one of Richard's articles -

 

From Richard's site:

 

It happens that there is a gray zone in the range of alloys when measured by gold content. That zone falls around 14K (585). Alloys containing significantly more gold tend to lack some desirable qualities, most especially flexibility (the resilience to bend significantly and return to the original shape over and over again). Many 18K (750) nibs, for instance, are springy (“soft”), but that’s not true flexibility. People who believe the sales hype frequently end up sending their 18K nibs out for repair after they’ve sprung them by applying more pressure than the nibs could handle. As a rule, 18K alloys are too soft — bending too easily and staying bent — or too hard, resisting until the point of catastrophic failure. This is why responsible nib technicians refuse to add flexibility to 18K nibs

 

 

George

 

Yes, that's the evidence that 14k nibs are best suited for flex. And 14k is the standard for fountain pens. In jewelry, 14k is the American standard and 18k is the European standard, but in fountain pens, 14k is the standard with a capital "s." 18k nibs are more of a recent phenomenon; vintage pens are almost all 14k. It is more marketing because 14k nibs are just as resistant to corrosion as 18k nibs, so there's no practical advantage. Many people prefer the nibs of the old MB 149's, before they made the switch.