Drive-By Shootings - The Most Over-rated Pen & Why

[Blade Runner]

Tsujigirl,

 

You have a point, there are many pens now that are in the league of the 51, but one feature I like about the 51 (at least the aero) is that is is resistant to leaks despite marked pressure changes. When I trek above 10,000 ft, I'll take a user grade 51 aero.

I found out the hard way when a Parker 75 burped up its contents in my rucksack somewhere between 10-14,000 ft.

Edited July 26, 2009 by jeen

[ethernautrix]

For sheer utilitarianism and price point, how can the P51 be over-rated?

[Silvermink]

For sheer utilitarianism and price point, how can the P51 be over-rated?

 

Easy - people rave about it being the best thing since sliced bread, then others try it and don't like it, so they find it overrated. I'm one of those others.

 

I mentioned that I didn't like the size, which I don't think is a general criterion of overratedness by any means, though I also found the fully-hooded nib a pain in the butt. I'd rather deal with having to recap my pen than with the frustration of constantly losing the sweet spot.

 

Also, the vac filler is convenient to fill, but it's a nightmare to try to wash out completely (haven't tried an aero, probably won't).

Edited July 26, 2009 by Silvermink

[brianw06]

 

Easy - people rave about it being the best thing since sliced bread, then others try it and don't like it, so they find it overrated. I'm one of those others.

 

and On the flip side I have the same problem with Lamy, all of thier offerings

 

[ethernautrix]

Meh.

 

I like pens.

[diplomat]

That said, the most over rated pen is anything made by the MODERN Tibaldi.

 

No, third generation Tibaldis are not overrated because nobody rate high them.

At least that is the impression after one year and a half of Italian fountain pen subforum on FPN...

 

Again, I don't think that the OP meant anything close to overrated=overpriced. That's why the majority of the blame here is on the Safaris, the 51s, the VPs and MBs...

 

[Deirdre]

No, third generation Tibaldis are not overrated because nobody rate high them.

At least that is the impression after one year and a half of Italian fountain pen subforum on FPN...

I thought it was that none of us, myself included, had ever bought one to rate.

[diplomat]

No, third generation Tibaldis are not overrated because nobody rate high them.

At least that is the impression after one year and a half of Italian fountain pen subforum on FPN...

I thought it was that none of us, myself included, had ever bought one to rate.

 

Ok, you got me. But "not buying" is choosing not to, then my forced statement.

In addition to that, several times there were comments on Tibaldi being on a downhill slope compared to the third generation...

[grimakis]

In my opinion, the Aero-metric was a step backwards from the Vacumatic. But it did have one advantage, you could see how much ink was left... the sac was clear when it left the factory! Also, I didn't know that the Lamy 2000 was made of fibreglass resin, I though it was made of Makrolon.(Bayer's trade name for Polycarbonate?) Even so, I believe both Vacumatic and Aerometric pens are easily to repair. In a piston, if the replacement seal is a tad too wide, or not wide enough, the barrel will either crack or the seal won't work. In a Vac, exact measurement is not necessary.

 

So we have higher capacity than the Aero, probably less than the Vac. You can see the ink also... I implore you to make a list such as the one below.

 

In a Vac "51" you have:

 

High Capacity

One-Handed Filling

Fully Hooded Nib, prevents nib from drying out, upwards of an hour.

Lucite construction, more durable than many plastics.

Nigh indestructable nib.

Secure, pull-off cap.

Secure, yet attractive clip.

Comes in 7 attractive colours, with many cap option.

Easily repaired at home, almost every part can be easily replaced and/or interchanged with another pen.

 

Also, the "51" comes in cartridge/converter, so some people might prefer that.

 

What do you mean by one-handed filling? I think you need two hands to either unscrew the body on the aerometric or the blind cap on the vac, and if you can do that with one hand, then pretty much every pen is a one-handed filler. The Lamy 2000 has pretty much all of the list except colors. And "secure, pull off cap" or similar features don't really count because there are plenty of pens with sturdy construction.

 

 

In any case, this is a "drive-by" thread, so it's just for members to take a quick jab at overrated pens. So here's the tally so far... Nominations for the 51: 13. Pelikan m200: 3. Lamy 2000: 5. Pilot VP: 4. Lamy Safari: 8. Montblanc: 8. I might have missed a couple or double counted a couple from members who posted more than once, but these are essentially the figures. You can check if you want. So far, the crown of glorified mediocrity goes to the 51.

 

 

I would beg to differ.

 

The Lamy 2000 has a high capacity.

 

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have one handed filling.

 

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have a fully hooded nib, and the anti-dry evaporation properties are only a little better than a regular pen with exposed feed.

 

The Lamy 2000 is durable, and HIDES damage well due to the brushed finish.

 

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have a nigh indestructable nib. It is just as thick as many regular nibs.

 

The Lamy 2000 may have a secure cap. I heard the ears eventually wear, and the cap becomes lose. I cannot confirm this though.

 

The Lamy 2000 has a secure clip.

 

The Lamy 2000 comes in a grand total of two colour schemes if you include the Ltd Edition. Black and Steel, and Steel and Black.

 

I would definitely not say the 2000 is easy to repair at home.... but I never rebuilt a piston mechanism, so I would know. I would also find it hard to believe that you can easily change the clip.

 

Also, one handed filling is the ability to fill the pen using only one hand. This helps because you can hold the bottle to get the section more submerged, etc. If you count removing the blind-cap as being part of it, then I guess screw cap pens are for two-handed writing. I mean you have to use your other hand to remove the cap, otherwise you can't write.

 

As for secure, pull-off cap, it is a feature. Not many pens have a cap that is truly "secure". Slip caps can easily fall off, cone caps can split at the lip, and some other designs wear over time.

[adam11]

LE Mont Blancs, maybe with some rare exceptions. Pure and horrible kitsch.

[MidnightBlue]

That's a bit harsh. I'm not a lover of a lot of them, but like all companies they have to try and be wide and varied. Sometimes they get it a little on the odd side, but that's just preference. Just don't get me started on precious resin notions.

Thank

[TheWalrus]

LE Mont Blancs, maybe with some rare exceptions. Pure and horrible kitsch.

 

 

Wow, aren't you just a big bundle of happiness.

[Tsujigiri]

Tsujigirl,

 

You have a point, there are many pens now that are in the league of the 51, but one feature I like about the 51 (at least the aero) is that is is resistant to leaks despite marked pressure changes. When I trek above 10,000 ft, I'll take a user grade 51 aero.

I found out the hard way when a Parker 75 burped up its contents in my rucksack somewhere between 10-14,000 ft.

 

Now that's an advantage I didn't expect to see. It would be interesting to see how many various pens fare in this regard. I know the Edson would do well...

 

Grimakis, you could really make up a list of features and "features" like that for any pen. It doesn't prove that the 51 isn't overrated. In fact, there really isn't that much you can say to disprove that. There are plenty of other pens out there that are fantastic writers but certainly don't get the attention they deserve if you use the 51 as a basis for comparison. And although the 51 has lots of colors, the 2000 is better than the 51 in some ways as well. It's more durable because it's made from a more durable material, not because it can also hide scratches well. Fiberglass reenforced makrolon won't get dented and scratched as easily as lucite, nor will it be dented like so many 51 caps I've seen. You can see the ink level. The clip is spring-loaded and more sturdy, so it's not going to be sprung and in need of a replacement. And if something goes wrong with the pen, you can just send it back to Lamy for repairs. Anyway, the 51 is still the elected president of overrated pens, and pointing out that it comes in many colors doesn't change that. You have your opinion, and 13 other people have theirs.

[McPete]

Anything, EVER with a rubber grip. Sheaffer Javelin, Parker Frontier, I'm looking at you. They just feel wrong, and eventually, they become deformed and look terrible.

 

The Parker Jotter FP. Defining cheap and nasty better than I ever could. Medium isn't. Scratchy and irritating. The barrel wall seems to be made of aluminium foil.

 

The slant-top Sheaffer Viewpoint... The slip-cap is worthless, my inks dry within minutes of the cap going on, where my NoNonsene old screw-cap is fine for months! The new nibs are rougher and skippier too!

[Glenn-SC]

Grimakis, you could really make up a list of features and "features" like that for any pen. It doesn't prove that the 51 isn't overrated. In fact, there really isn't that much you can say to disprove that.

Or prove it, because it is a opinion, and if some have the opinion, OK.

 

There are plenty of other pens out there that are fantastic writers but certainly don't get the attention they deserve if you use the 51 as a basis for comparison.

First, the fact that the "51" get the attention while the "plenty" of other pens" simply proves that the "51" is considered the better pen. Second, the fact that there are other good pens out there doesn't decrease the value of the "51".

 

And although the 51 has lots of colors, the 2000 is better than the 51 in some ways as well.

This doesn't lose the point for the "51" that it was and is available in a vastly greater assortment of colors and styles.

 

It's more durable because it's made from a more durable material, not because it can also hide scratches well. Fiberglass reenforced (sic) makrolon won't get dented and scratched as easily as lucite, nor will it be dented like so many 51 caps I've seen.

First, the Makrolon on the 2000 it textured, you could call it "pre-scratched" if you want, so no it doesn't show scratches like a "51" will, unless you prefer polished finishes on your pens. Then from day 1 the 2000 does not look as good as a "51" and never will. Second, with the 10's of millions of "51" out there, with some going on 70 years old, it would be expected that scratched "51"s will be seen. The same with abused metal caps. Every one of those millions of "51"s came with a metal cap to damage if you feel like it.

 

You can see the ink level.

You can seen the ink level when it get very low. But it does tell you that you are very low. Point for the 2000.

 

The clip is spring-loaded and more sturdy, so it's not going to be sprung and in need of a replacement.

I guess I have never seen a "51" clip "sprung" unless done so on-purpose. So the thicker 2000 clip may be stronger but the "51" clip is strong enough.

 

And if something goes wrong with the pen, you can just send it back to Lamy for repairs.

Just because a pen hasn't been made in 40+ years doesn't mean its bad. It is good that Lamy repairs 2000s. There are lots of people who repair "51"s.

 

Anyway, the 51 is still the elected president of overrated pens...

REALLY? President? I think if you held an election on the FPN as to which pen held that position I bet that MB would win hands down.

 

You have your opinion, and 13 other people have theirs.

Yes, your opinion too. My in with Grimakis. I suggest we have an election!

[Tsujigiri]

First, the fact that the "51" get the attention while the "plenty" of other pens" simply proves that the "51" is considered the better pen. Second, the fact that there are other good pens out there doesn't decrease the value of the "51".

 

REALLY? President? I think if you held an election on the FPN as to which pen held that position I bet that MB would win hands down.

 

Yes, it does prove that it's considered the better pen (or that people aren't aware of less glorified options). Considered the better pen, unreasonably. That's what being overrated is. I didn't say that other good pens out there decrease the value of the 51, either. I said they show that the 51 is overrated, which is the topic of this thread.

 

This thread is in a way an election and the 51 has won hands down. MB is more overrated outside of the pen world, but on these forums there isn't all that much talk about them. People don't automatically say "Montblanc!" in response to pen recommendation requests like they seem to do with Parker 51's.

 

Overrated products tend to have stubborn, cultish fan bases, so I know I won't change your mind and you should know that you won't change mine. Now, would any new people add to the list of drive-by's?

[soapytwist]

To elaborate on some of Grimakis' points (as an owner and 'dispassionate fan' of both 51s and L2Ks), and with apologies in advance for some of my tongue-in-cheek answers:

 

The Lamy 2000 has a high capacity.

 

And it is more positively filled - I always wonder with a vac or an aerometric if it's actually full. With piston fillers you are sure.

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have one handed filling.

 

Every pen normally requires two hands to fill it - lets' face it you aren't going to be able to answer the phone whilst filling your pen. Unless you're this guy:

 

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have a fully hooded nib, and the anti-dry evaporation properties are only a little better than a regular pen with exposed feed.

 

That's why FPs come with anti-dry evaporation inhibitors (in technical terms, called 'caps').

The Lamy 2000 is durable, and HIDES damage well due to the brushed finish.

 

I'd say the 51 and the L2K both have a similar ability on this respect.

 

The Lamy 2000 does NOT have a nigh indestructable nib. It is just as thick as many regular nibs.

 

But it has less surface area showing than an open nib, and is less likely to bend or be dented when dropped etc. It's also far more indestructible when the anti-dry evaporation inihibitor is in situ.

 

The Lamy 2000 may have a secure cap. I heard the ears eventually wear, and the cap becomes lose. I cannot confirm this though.

 

That's wear and tear I'd expect over time (mine's ten years old with no problems) - the pen is still in production though, and the ears can be easily replaced.

 

The Lamy 2000 has a secure clip.

 

It does; one of the best, in fact. But if the clip ever became a deciding factor for me in buying a pen, if have to go out and shoot myself....

 

The Lamy 2000 comes in a grand total of two colour schemes if you include the Ltd Edition. Black and Steel, and Steel and Black.

 

Would you really want a pen designed like that in another colour? Sometimes designers have to save us from ourselves!

 

I would definitely not say the 2000 is easy to repair at home.... but I never rebuilt a piston mechanism, so I would know. I would also find it hard to believe that you can easily change the clip.

 

Possibly the easiest pen I have ever disassembled once you know how, MUCH easier than a 51 with its hood/nib alignment and the special tools required for the vacs, and on a par with a vintage lever filler. Oh and the clip is only held in by the cap top (which unscrews) - just because it's cleverly designed doesn't mean it isn't simple to dismantle.

 

[Deirdre]

Okay, I'm no Lamy apologist, but I really don't get people thinking the Lamy 2000 is over-rated. It seems a nice enough pen, and it's a reasonable value for a piston filler.

[twdpens]

Okay, I'm no Lamy apologist, but I really don't get people thinking the Lamy 2000 is over-rated. It seems a nice enough pen, and it's a reasonable value for a piston filler.

 

Careful, you'll be a Lamy fan before you know it .

 

Martin

[Blade Runner]

"The Lamy 2000 does NOT have a fully hooded nib, and the anti-dry evaporation properties are only a little better than a regular pen with exposed feed".

 

That's why FPs come with anti-dry evaporation inhibitors (in technical terms, called 'caps').

:roflmho: