Cleaning fountain pens - Amonia vs. No Amonia?

[mooshi]

The only time I used ammonia was when I needed to get a ton of dried up ink out of my pen. I had accidentally left it over the course of the semester, sitting and unused. It worked like a charm. I only used a 10% solution with a drop of detergent though.

[AlanO]

I know this is an old thread, but I was going to recount my experience using ammonia so I thought I might as well keep it in one place.

 

I've bought a few vintage pens over the past few weeks, and soaking them in water seemed to be sufficient to get them clean - although one or two did take a lot of soaking. I thought I'd try ammonia to make sure they're all properly clean, and I got myself a bottle of Household Ammonia (which is just plain ammonia in water, NH4OH).

 

I diluted that to 10% in water, and started flushing out my pens again, and the results were remarkable. More ink started washing out of pens that I'd thought were clean, with one converter in particular giving up a lot more black ink that would inevitably have tainted whatever new ink I used in it. A combination of soaking (for a couple of hours) and flushing, and my pens all came clean again - presumably properly clean this time.

 

I also decided to try it on my old Parker 75, which I've had from new and have always taken good care of - I've always cleaned it when not in use, and have never let it sit with ink in to dry out. But I thought after all these years it might help. What happened was I didn't get any more visible ink out, but the pen is flowing better now. It had been a very dry writer, but now it's writing more like other pens with similar vintage medium Parker nibs - maybe the ammonia got out some residue or something that had been partly clogging it?

 

I don't intent to use ammonia for regular cleaning, but as a one-off treatment for new old pens I buy, it seems like a very effective and cheap treatment.

 

Alan

[OCArt]

I've seen ammonia solutions recommended only for internal cleaning -- given the range of pH and components in inks, any pen that can't take a weak ammonia solution on parts intended to touch ink is probably not going to last long in actual use unless you use only Private Reserve, Noodler's (and no BSB), Diamine, or J. Herbin inks.

 

I certainly wouldn't suggest cleaning the exterior of a pen with ammonia unless it's either all metal or a resin known to be impervious (acrylic, for instance).

I enjoy many of there PR inks but there are some that feel they are unsafe for vintage pens. So I'm interested to know why you think PR inks is a "safe" ink (my word, not yours)? I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.

[AlanO]

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.

 

You might not get an answer to that - it was posted in 2009 and ZeissIkon hasn't been active since 2013.

[jkingrph]

Saturated solutions of ammonia are not readily available and since it is a gas dissolved into water is actually dependent upon temperature.

 

I did some looking and found one posting that says the common Parsons ammonia is <3%. I picked up some at a hardware store some time back that was a 10% solution. When I opened the bottle the strength of the fumes were extremely strong.

 

Ammonia is very alkaline, in the same class as lye, so will degrease and turn organic oils into soap given enough time.

 

Soaps and detergents will remove oils and greases buy reducing surface tenision and forming an emulsion, which can be oil in water or water in oil depending on numerous variables. Most commonly we form an oil in water emulsion so the oil or grease can be rinsed away.

 

Personally I will stay with warm water to clean my pens, even though it means a lot of rinsing. At least that way I will minimize the removal of lubricants present along with any possible damage to seals or plastics .

Edited October 27, 2015 by jkingrph

[JonesandHoran]

And watch out for soaking vintage pens in an ammonia solution to loosen shellac: it can fade the exterior.

[AlanO]

And watch out for soaking vintage pens in an ammonia solution to loosen shellac: it can fade the exterior.

 

Oh, that's a thing - it loosened the shellac holding the sac on one pen, so I have to fix it back now!

[AlanO]

Another anecdotal example...

 

I acquired another Parker 45 last week, and what dried ink was in it appeared to wash out with multiple soakings and flushings with water. But when I inked it and tried to use it, it was writing very dry indeed - and the Parker 45 is not a dry pen.

 

So it came apart, had a few squishes through with dilute ammonia and then the parts sat overnight in more of the same. It didn't show any more ink removal, but after a subsequent washing out with plain water the ink flow is much improved and it's now writing as nicely as you'd expect a Parker 45 to.

 

Again, not something I have the experience to recommend as a regular treatment, but as a one-off for an old clogged pen it worked a treat.

 

Alan

Edited November 8, 2015 by AlanO

[goatgolfer]

Recently, Carol Gillett of Luxury Brands USA (the contact for Noodler's inks) responded to my question about the range of FPN responses (detergent, ammonia, bleach, other such generalizations and chemical witchcraft) on cleaning dried BSBlue from a Preppy:

 

Carol responded:

 

"We usually suggest the Platinum Pen cleaning kit or ammonia and warm soapy water. Either is a very good method. Thank you"

 

Following her advice and reading the instructions from jetpens.com Platinum Cleaning kit - http://www.jetpens.com/Platinum-Fountain-Pen-Ink-Cleaner-Kit-Japanese-Model/pd/8593

 

And with significant bulb syringe flushing a rather large ink booger exited the collector and voila, restored function. Amazing what following instructions from experienced members can add. Thank you knowledgeable contributors.

Edited November 9, 2015 by goatgolfer

[Brianm_14]

It is interesting to progressively clean a pen, first with plain water, then a little Dawn in water, and finally dilute ammonia in water (for a few minutes). The ammonia is especially likely to cause more ink to be released even after the first two steps suggest the pen is clean. But is this significant in terms of the pen's performance? I am more and more inclined to reserve the ammonia treatment for pens with proven performance issues.

 

Much the same result seems to be accomplished by a trip to the ultrasonic as with ammonia.

[arcadeflow]

I searched and couldn't find an answer to my question, so I will try here.

 

Should we cover the recipient that we put the ammonia solution and the pen? Will it loose efficiency if left uncovered?

[Ink Stained Wretch]

Recently, Carol Gillett of Luxury Brands USA (the contact for Noodler's inks) responded to my question about the range of FPN responses (detergent, ammonia, bleach, other such generalizations and chemical witchcraft) on cleaning dried BSBlue from a Preppy:

 

Carol responded:

 

"We usually suggest the Platinum Pen cleaning kit or ammonia and warm soapy water. Either is a very good method. Thank you"

 

Following her advice and reading the instructions from jetpens.com Platinum Cleaning kit - http://www.jetpens.com/Platinum-Fountain-Pen-Ink-Cleaner-Kit-Japanese-Model/pd/8593

 

And with significant bulb syringe flushing a rather large ink booger exited the collector and voila, restored function. Amazing what following instructions from experienced members can add. Thank you knowledgeable contributors.

 

Wow, $20 for a syringe and some cleaning powder? And they still just assume that you're going to ink the pen immediately after you've flushed it. I guess that the folks at Platinum don't want to address the problem of drying out their collectors in a timely way.

 

I searched and couldn't find an answer to my question, so I will try here.

 

Should we cover the recipient that we put the ammonia solution and the pen? Will it loose efficiency if left uncovered?

 

Unless you want to really stink up the place some sort of lid or covering is a good idea. For some cc pens an ink sample vial will contain the pen part and the ammonia, and you can just cap it. Otherwise a jar of some sort with a lid is a good idea.

[Brianm_14]

-The ammonia in solution won't significantly dissipate in a few hours or overnight. But cover it up for aesthetic reasons; it is also a respiratory irritant.

 

-Check Richard Binder's website for his highly knowledgeable recommendations on "safe" inks. It is not so simple to form conclusions, and you certainly won't find him recommending PR or Noodler's, either. I am fairly surprised to see them ever suggested as "safe" inks. I do use several Noodler's inks, but never in vintage pens.

 

Use vintage-style inks (e.g. Waterman or Parker) In vintage pens to be completely safe. Most Diamine and J. Herbins inks seem mild enough, too.

[Anthony95]

I know this is a rather old thread, but I feel this was something not particularly mentioned at the time. Many pen flushes/pen cleaning fluids (or otherwise advertised) are simply a very dilute ammonia being sold at a fair mark-up. If one is willing to use pen flush, it would make sense that using ones own dilute ammonia in a similar fashion would be no more or less damaging or effective, and would be significantly cheaper.

[lbhajdu]

I don't use ammonia for aniline based inks like Waterman, J.Herbin, Lammy they will eventually dissolve with water. However for water proof inks like Polar Blue (which I happen to love) I use ammonia in the form of pen flush. I first flush with water until it runs clean. Then I flush with the pen flush and a lot more blue comes out. If I just flush water proof inks with water the pen will eventually clog until flushed with ammonia based pen flush. This is how you know if you need the pen flush. You flush with water first and if more comes out after that with the pen flush solution it's needed. This is because with the water proof inks if the ink really drys it becomes water proof, which means it will not dissolve with water. I use the acrylic Bexley Pens and I have never had a problem even soaking for hours. Acrylic is very chemically stable. I don't own vintage pens so I don't know about them. But vintage pens seem unreliable (in therms of chemical stability) to me so I would not fill them with Noodlers more exotic inks.

BTW: pen flush will go bad after a few years, so you can't keep it for very long. Goop that looks like cotton balls start to sink to the bottom even if never used. I use so little that I just buy it at the pen shows. If I need to soak the section I just transfer a few milliliters to a vile.

[PaulS]

probably common sense really - a drop or two of household ammonia in the flushing liquid may well help to unclog those pens that have been left dried out for some considerable time, and provided the pen is flushed thoroughly afterwards with plain water, then not a problem - but you wouldn't put gallons of the stuff through your pen.

 

It's very unlikely that FPN members will have a need for excessively strong solutions of ammonia in any circumstances, so it's probably of academic importance only to mention that .880 strength ammonia should never be used outside of controlled laboratory conditions. This is a liquid far removed from household ammonia, and is a powerful and destructive chemical with the ability to destroy organic life and the environment if mis-used - as well as ruining your pens

Edited December 16, 2016 by PaulS

[inkstainedruth]

This is an old thread, so I just sort of skimmed the ancient posts. But it doesn't hurt to repeat this: do NOT use ammonia solution for acidic inks like iron gall inks (or at least, not at first). Instead, try a solution of distilled white vinegar and distilled water (I add a little Dawn to that, which is the same ratio as dilute ammonia solution). Make sure you flush the pen well with distilled water both before and afterwards.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Ron Z]

Distilled water is not needed unless you have very hard water.

[pajaro]

Distilled water is not needed unless you have very hard water.

 

This is interesting. In Pensacola the water was soft, and I never thought about the water. Here in Tecumseh, Michigan, the water has so much visible crud in it that everything is affected by it. I probably should use distilled water on pens, even with a water softener.

[Olya]

Distilled water is not needed unless you have very hard water.

 

I always assumed exactly this.

What about ink though? When diluting ink, is it necessary to use distilled water? Because I remember reading about Parker Quink ink concentrate, sold during WWII; dump concentrate in ink bottle and top up with tap water. If tap water then was good enough, then shouldn't today's tap water also be good enough?