The Truth About Waterman Blue-Black?

[kronos77]

In reading through the reviews of Waterman Blue Black ink, there seems to be a problem with the ink drying to a greenish color. Not everyone has this problem apparently but it is an issue that comes up frequently from what I have read.

 

So what is the real story? Is the green problem a quality control issue, a matter of the type of paper used, or just some people's defective colour vision?

 

 

[ajcoleman]

I guess I don't see any green in it, really. to me it is something like blue denim. It goes on a dark blue and dries to a faded blue denim color, at least with a medium, wet writer. With a fine point, dry nib, it dries to a very light blue.

[Ondina]

The color comes as a vivid true blue out of the nib and then in most -not all papers/pen combinations- starts drying (also at different speeds) to a IMHO nice teal.

This said, ( Ernst Bitterman had the original observation) it may have something to do with the oxidation of the ink both on paper and in the pen.

When used in a vintage sac pen, the ink comes almost teal already, specially after a couple days. Does it change/oxidize inside? Apparently yes. The teal color changes even further on paper.

In my daily workhorse, a Lamy All Star with italic nib, and a tight, new converter, the ink does not change color at all even after a couple weeks. But then, if I write with this pen on Clairefontaine the teal appears after a short while. Same pen and ink on Miquel Ríus will yield on a similar result..but over 24-48 hours. And then, to my total surprise, a batch of envelopes that are 25 years old....give the surprising result of no color change whatsoever.

Seems that the ink may have chemical elements that give this intriguing result. Is certainly not the only one that changes color, many others do, from the subtle Violette Pensée to Noodler's Nakahama to the very obvious ferrogalic ones.

Whatever the reason, the ink is very well behaved and personally, one very good one but for its tendency to fade over time. As for the ultimate chemical reason of why the hue variation, we have well versed chemist at the forum whose opinion will be much more detailed and knowledgeable.

[Breck]

I love most all Waterman's other colors, but the blue-black is definitely green to me. The sample I have is green right out of the nib - no drying required, and no color change at all.

 

These results are from only a single dip test with a BB stub nib, so YMMV, as always.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

For some reason, this thread reminds me of that bad batch of Sheaffer blue, in which the actual color was more like a sick, muddy shade of cyan.

[Penman1964]

To me Waterman Blue/Black is a vile ink in both color and flow, at least in the one pen I've put it in (MB 149, Fine nib). That's just my opinion/experience.

[FrankB]

ajcoleman wrote:

 

"I guess I don't see any green in it, really. to me it is something like blue denim. It goes on a dark blue and dries to a faded blue denim color, at least with a medium, wet writer. With a fine point, dry nib, it dries to a very light blue."

 

My experience exactly. I will add that I find the "denim blue" to have a lovely vintage look.

[Garageboy]

Read Richard's reference page on it. It's the type of dye used and its normal

[ToasterPastry]

In doing my research before preparing to stick my foot in my mouth, I came across a number of posts that said that Waterman Blue-Black changes to a greenish tint, or appears slightly green on the page. However, vintage Waterman Blue-Black has not a hint of green in it. It's blue-then-black (or very dark blue).

 

[Jason Oliver]

Unfortunately I've found that in my medium and broad nibs it starts like a blue-black and drys to a teal-like color. It's not a bad color, just not what most would consider a blue-black. The flow on the ink is every bit as good as Waterman Florida Blue, though

[Ray-Vigo]

I have a Touchdown that is an extremely wet writer and it does not come out green at all-- it actually comes out a true blue-black. The level of flow may have something to do with it. In my dry pens it comes out light and does turn green-ish after awhile.

[WendyNC]

In my finer, drier pens, it comes out rather tealy looking, but in a slightly broader, wetter pen, it appears to me to be more of the medium denim blue. But whatever it is, it isn't my definition of blue black.

[Margana]

That hint of green that WBBk can produce depends on a variety of things including lighting, paper brand, absorbency, pen attributes, etc. I like the green but recently I've noticed that shaking the bottle produces a more even and consistent shade of medium gray-blue in a wide nib and a darker though not dark blue-black in a finer nib. It doesn't reduce the shading but does reduce the green with the pens I've tested so far. Has that happened to anyone else?

 

 

[Ondina]

In doing my research before preparing to stick my foot in my mouth, I came across a number of posts that said that Waterman Blue-Black changes to a greenish tint, or appears slightly green on the page. However, vintage Waterman Blue-Black has not a hint of green in it. It's blue-then-black (or very dark blue).

 

Yes, vintage BB was a totally different stuff, amazing blue-black color and very permanent. Smell was particular, too. Nothing to do with the present formulation. Bitterman has a review of the vintage, I believe, that is interesting to read.

[Ondina]

I have a Touchdown that is an extremely wet writer and it does not come out green at all-- it actually comes out a true blue-black. The level of flow may have something to do with it. In my dry pens it comes out light and does turn green-ish after awhile.

 

It certainly has to do with the flow, IMHO. But as Margana mentions above, paper seems also to play a big role. But at the most, is a nice blue teal that results, blue with a green hue, not just plain green as some perceive it.

 

Penman1964, if you your pen has a flow issue with WBB, throw the pen away. Well, they are extraordinary nibmeisters it could be sent to, maybe is fixable.

 

Thanks for the heads up on Mr. Binder's reference, Garageboy, his site is always a wealth of knowledge for serious Fpen aficionados.

 

Margana, please don't tell me I've got to start shaking my Waterman's, too, now I'll try it out, anyhow, good tip.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Ondina

[MiniMaupassant]

Although I don't own a bottle of this, I do have a FPN correspondent who writes frequently with this ink. I really love the teal colour, but it's miles from being a blue black.

[Margana]

...please don't tell me I've got to start shaking my Waterman's, too, now I'll try it out, anyhow, good tip.

 

Let me know if you try this and how well it works for you. I like the green and was surprised at the lack of it. Just proves there's always something new to learn.

[ZeissIkon]

In doing my research before preparing to stick my foot in my mouth, I came across a number of posts that said that Waterman Blue-Black changes to a greenish tint, or appears slightly green on the page. However, vintage Waterman Blue-Black has not a hint of green in it. It's blue-then-black (or very dark blue).

 

This change is because vintage Waterman Blue-Black is an iron-gall based ink like modern Montblanc and Lamy blue-black; the initial color is a dye, while the final color is due to the iron-gall oxidizing itself and the paper. Modern Waterman's Blue-Black is dye-based without the iron-gall.

[Ondina]

ZeissIkon is right, the old formula was iron gall based, thus the color and property changes.

 

Margana, I still have no shaken the bottle. But the daily workhorse is a Lamy All Star italic. Is been loaded for around 10 days. The paper is Galgo Parchemin. This is how it just wrote 5 minutes ago:

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q347/Ondina_2008/WBB2.jpg

 

Yesterday, we had the first beach day of the year, so I took the pen along and tried to make a shopping list and finish some personal correspondence. The heat concentrated the ink, it looks darker than normal:

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q347/Ondina_2008/BeachWBB.jpg

 

What is surprising is....well is the same pen and ink, but this morning the color was back to normal. I would have expected, once concentrated due to heat and evaporation, to stay darker.

The same ink load suffered from sensible teal transformation during the first 4-5 days after the refill on Oxford and even Miquel Ríus paper. Now, I'm totally puzzled.

Other thing to mention is that the first couple words after short pauses during the seaside heat, is that it came out very dark and with a noticeable red sheen. For a second I thought it was loaded with Diamine's Majestic Blue.