Making Ink - Any recipes.

[badrsj]

Hello Everyone.

 

I have been wondering bout making my own ink - just plain black - nothing fancy. (Though inks are fancy - no matter what color). Water proof'd be nice - but that just talk.

 

Why' you'd ask - Well I like big fat nibs - i.e. : 1.1, 1.2 - and these babies go thru ink like it is out of fashion (which it really is and not easy or cheap to find).

 

Any Ideas??

 

Thanks for your time.

[ZeissIkon]

The lowest cost per ounce (that I'm aware of) for black ink intended for fountain pens in a reasonable bottle size is the 4.5 ounce dropper bottle of Noodler's Heart of Darkness, usually for $18 (including an eyedropper converted Platinum Preppy), or Higgins Fountain Pen India at about the same price per ounce in a much smaller bottle (the Noodler's is much safer for a fountain pen; some say the Higgins isn't actually fountain pen safe at all).

 

You can buy ink jet printer refills ("bulk ink", which doesn't include the tools for refilling the cart) for about half that in four ounce or larger bottles; the ink works in fountain pens and the dye-based inks (those made for older printers like the HP Deskjet 600 and 700 series) should be safe. These inks may show excessive flow and spreading in some pens and on some papers (papers made for ink-jet printing seem to avoid most of this problem), but with a very broad pen you might find that's no big deal anyway (or you might find it kills your hairlines).

 

To be of any advantage, then, "make your own" ink would have to be cheaper than around $4/ounce.

 

If you have a source of carbon that's fine enough to pass a pen easily (actual lampblack would be one good source; particle size there is sub-micron), you could make an India-like ink that should be fountain pen safe using lampblack, water, a dispersant to allow wetting the lampblack (dish detergent should work here, probably highly diluted), and just a trace of gum arabic (a binder is required to keep the carbon on the paper, but too much gum will make the ink thick and cause it to clog even without letting it dry in the pen). Given that gum arabic costs, as I recall, around $5 for a half pint can (enough to make around a hundred gallons of ink with minimum usage of the gum), and water is around a dollar a gallon for the distilled you should use for this, the lampblack is the main cost. I see lampblack sold as artists' pigment for around $6 for a bottle containing four ounces by volume, likely enough to make a pint or so of ink (maybe more, lampblack is a pretty strong pigment), so your final cost (assuming you make enough ink to use up the gum arabic, eventually, before it spoils) could be under fifty cents an ounce (maybe a lot under, if you find a distributor of technical grade lampblack in bulk), or as little as a quarter the cost of printer ink -- but then you have to factor in your time, and the cost of repairing/replacing pens potentially ruined by experimental batches of ink that aren't quite right. You also have to consider the initial "capital" cost to get the gum, distilled water, and lampblack to start (absolute minimum, the first bottle of this ink will cost you about what a dropper bottle of HoD would; it only gets cheaper if you keep using it daily for a long time).

 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it -- instead, I'd contact Nathan at Noodler's and ask about getting quart or larger bottles of Noodler's Black or HoD. You can also dilute Noodler's inks by adding up to an equal amount of water, with (usually) no visible effect on the mark and little effect on flow; that'd cut the cost of using HoD down to $2/ounce, or less if you can buy it by the quart or larger.

[badrsj]

Thanks - You are a virtual treasure trove of information. Much Appreciated.

[encephalartos]

The lowest cost per ounce (that I'm aware of) for black ink intended for fountain pens in a reasonable bottle size is the 4.5 ounce dropper bottle of Noodler's Heart of Darkness, usually for $18 (including an eyedropper converted Platinum Preppy), or Higgins Fountain Pen India at about the same price per ounce in a much smaller bottle (the Noodler's is much safer for a fountain pen; some say the Higgins isn't actually fountain pen safe at all).

...

To be of any advantage, then, "make your own" ink would have to be cheaper than around $4/ounce.

 

...

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it -- instead, I'd contact Nathan at Noodler's and ask about getting quart or larger bottles of Noodler's Black or HoD. You can also dilute Noodler's inks by adding up to an equal amount of water, with (usually) no visible effect on the mark and little effect on flow; that'd cut the cost of using HoD down to $2/ounce, or less if you can buy it by the quart or larger.

 

I agree with the above poster. However, I believe that Pendemonium and some other vendors used to carry Pelikan in in large bottles (like a quart). I'm not sure if it was available only in black or also in blue. Also,

sometimes giant bottles of new old stock vintage ink such as Sheaffer or Parker show up. There are also

vintage packets of dry ingredients for making ink, to which you would add distilled water in a clean bottle.

That suggests if you can acquire the old bottle even if it isn't full it could come in handy.

[cr0acker]

Well take some Gouache dissolve it with water, add some Glycerol, dishwashing agent and alcohol.

Edited June 23, 2009 by cr0acker

[dizzypen]

I think isellpens.com sells the huge bottles of Pelikan blue and black inks...

[Ondina]

Actually, the "cheapest" (and I rather have "best and reasonable, not only cheap") varies sensibly with your location. Badrsj lives in the EU, I believe.

Pelikan Black or Royal Blue is sold in Europe at 28.19€ per liter in 1 liter bottles (1 liter = 33.814 022 701 ounces). At today's exchange rate ( 1.39 € per $ US) that is 1.16€ per ounce ($1.62), beating the heck out of any competitor, leaving aside the excellent quality of the ink itself. Schools, professionals, etc. can ask for bulk quantities discount for even less.

For reference, I'm using;

1 liter = 33.814 022 701 ounce [uS, liquid]

= 2.113 376 418 9 pint [uS, liquid]

= 0.264 172 052 36 gallon [uS, liquid]

 

1 € = 1.39999 US$

 

The average shop next corner has the full line of Waterman's at 4,50€ 50 ml. Pelikan is 3.40 for 30 ml.

Herbin is known to sell also "curtine" bottles reasonably and given the already very competitive prices of Diamine, I'm sure if you contact Phil he will adjust his price for large quantities. Other small makers may surprise you ask them for a bulk discount.

 

As for self made ink, you can make your own old style iron gall recipe, but today's makers market a much more safer, balanced and proven product. David Spitzner and others here have made their own batches, Google has several recipes, if interested.

[ZeissIkon]

Badrsj lives in the EU, I believe.

 

Well, that makes a considerable difference in which ink is the best deal locally (which, I'll agree, isn't necessarily the cheapest ink) -- but it doesn't change the economics of making your own ink, even the simplest kind to make (India type inks, suitably modified for fountain pens), other than to alter the "must be cheaper than" figure according to the local price of quality ink. I'm not sure if there are any European inks that can be diluted without making them look "watery", though; Diamine would be the one I'd suspect, but I've never looked into Diamine in detail because, in this country, they suffer economically from having to travel across the water.

 

I'll agree, however, that Pelikan inks are good inks, and in EU and large bottles are good candidates for "best deal". Given the price you quote, it looks like Pelikan in liters, in EU, is cheaper than Noodler's in the standard bottles in USA (not terribly surprising; everything gets cheaper the more you buy at once).

[badrsj]

HI, and thanks for the wonderful information on the litre bottles - I live in USA. OTOH - Wonder how much shipping is going to be maybe I wont have to make ink after all

[ZeissIkon]

HI, and thanks for the wonderful information on the litre bottles - I live in USA. OTOH - Wonder how much shipping is going to be maybe I wont have to make ink after all

 

Shipping on a quart bottle of Noodler's shouldn't be too horrible -- UPS ground ought to run around $10 actual shipping. BTW, you should know that I've been writing daily for two months since coming back to fountain pens (well over 200 pages, call it at least 75,000 words) and haven't yet made a significant dent in a 110 ml (slightly smaller than the standard Noodler's three ounce size) bottle of ink (plus using up five cartridges, which account for about 25% of that word count). A bottle of ink can last a long time...

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Well, you could always boil down a bunch of logwood. If I remember right, though, that gives you something in a red or a purple.

 

(Honestly, that's what I thought the thread was about when I saw the subject line!)

[Wildoaklane]

Do be careful not to put a homemade iron gall ink into your fountain pen. There are lots of threads here about iron gall ink recipes if that's of interest to you. However, if your goal is to save money, not sure iron gall is the way for you to go.

[Ondina]

Do be careful not to put a homemade iron gall ink into your fountain pen. There are lots of threads here about iron gall ink recipes if that's of interest to you. However, if your goal is to save money, not sure iron gall is the way for you to go.

 

Even the old home made brews are suitable for gold nibs with no other metallic parts. Modern ferrogalic based inks are safer than quite a a few other of the considered regular inks, based on acidity. And even those are fine. Surprise, surprise....

[Ondina]

HI, and thanks for the wonderful information on the litre bottles - I live in USA. OTOH - Wonder how much shipping is going to be maybe I wont have to make ink after all

 

How did I reached the conclusion you lived on the other side of the pond, is unknown (Maybe that you use "litre" instead of liter? ) Go figure. Thanks for the correction.

Concerning the info, and as previously mentioned above, pendemonium.com has 250 ml Pelikan bottles (8.45 oz!!)at $18.44 plus shipping in Brilliant Black and Royal Blue. Beat that. Anyhow Zeissikon has a point: even with very wet pens and italic nibs the amount of ink consumed is not huge, unless you're the parent of a large family all in mandatory education levels.

 

Good info on the logwood concoction, but I assume the color will be coming from the natural tannines, being thus a variant of the ferrogalic ones. I've always wondered where the purple that R&K makes came from.

[badrsj]

Thanks everyone for valuable ideas. I am writing to comment, not necessarily in dissent about ink mileage

I think it depends on nib width, paper quality, & wetness. For example - my usual writing is on standard office paper (cause that is what they got in the office ).

One day I shocked myself - when a Danitrio Densho with a flex stub - ran out in 3 days (that is about 3 plus ml of ink).

Well - I says - Gotta go cheaper on ink. I do not think I'd be making mine though - but thanks for several good ideas. One last thought - in an office - the only color used is "black" - so that shouldn't be too hard (or expensive).

[I am not a number]

At the risk of sounding silly, have you had a look at the ink recipes pinned thread?

[badrsj]

I did speed thru that - appeared more of a mix & match thread - than get just basic black writing ink thread

Thanks

[ismellarat]

I am pretty sure that someone posted a link to some packets of powder that you would buy (from ebay, they're vintage) and add to water. Something like a quart of ink for a quarter (or around there).

[DJJM19951998]

The lowest cost per ounce (that I'm aware of) for black ink intended for fountain pens in a reasonable bottle size is the 4.5 ounce dropper bottle of Noodler's Heart of Darkness, usually for $18 (including an eyedropper converted Platinum Preppy), or Higgins Fountain Pen India at about the same price per ounce in a much smaller bottle (the Noodler's is much safer for a fountain pen; some say the Higgins isn't actually fountain pen safe at all).

 

You can buy ink jet printer refills ("bulk ink", which doesn't include the tools for refilling the cart) for about half that in four ounce or larger bottles; the ink works in fountain pens and the dye-based inks (those made for older printers like the HP Deskjet 600 and 700 series) should be safe. These inks may show excessive flow and spreading in some pens and on some papers (papers made for ink-jet printing seem to avoid most of this problem), but with a very broad pen you might find that's no big deal anyway (or you might find it kills your hairlines).

 

To be of any advantage, then, "make your own" ink would have to be cheaper than around $4/ounce.

 

If you have a source of carbon that's fine enough to pass a pen easily (actual lampblack would be one good source; particle size there is sub-micron), you could make an India-like ink that should be fountain pen safe using lampblack, water, a dispersant to allow wetting the lampblack (dish detergent should work here, probably highly diluted), and just a trace of gum arabic (a binder is required to keep the carbon on the paper, but too much gum will make the ink thick and cause it to clog even without letting it dry in the pen). Given that gum arabic costs, as I recall, around $5 for a half pint can (enough to make around a hundred gallons of ink with minimum usage of the gum), and water is around a dollar a gallon for the distilled you should use for this, the lampblack is the main cost. I see lampblack sold as artists' pigment for around $6 for a bottle containing four ounces by volume, likely enough to make a pint or so of ink (maybe more, lampblack is a pretty strong pigment), so your final cost (assuming you make enough ink to use up the gum arabic, eventually, before it spoils) could be under fifty cents an ounce (maybe a lot under, if you find a distributor of technical grade lampblack in bulk), or as little as a quarter the cost of printer ink -- but then you have to factor in your time, and the cost of repairing/replacing pens potentially ruined by experimental batches of ink that aren't quite right. You also have to consider the initial "capital" cost to get the gum, distilled water, and lampblack to start (absolute minimum, the first bottle of this ink will cost you about what a dropper bottle of HoD would; it only gets cheaper if you keep using it daily for a long time).

 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it -- instead, I'd contact Nathan at Noodler's and ask about getting quart or larger bottles of Noodler's Black or HoD. You can also dilute Noodler's inks by adding up to an equal amount of water, with (usually) no visible effect on the mark and little effect on flow; that'd cut the cost of using HoD down to $2/ounce, or less if you can buy it by the quart or larger.

On eBay you can find Hero ink for less than a dollar a bottle.

[ZeissIkon]

One day I shocked myself - when a Danitrio Densho with a flex stub - ran out in 3 days (that is about 3 plus ml of ink).

 

Which means a $14 bottle of Private Reserve (110 ml size) will last you almost four months, even in that pen.

 

As mentioned above, too, Pelikan Brilliant Black at $18+ for 8+ ounces is hard to beat; at the above consumption rate (around 1 ml/day), that'd last you around nine months -- I don't think $2/month for ink is all that much.