On eBay returns

[kirchh]

I have quite a different take on the matter of returning eBay items than some here. When I am in the position of seller on eBay, I want my customers to be extremely satisfied with their experience, and I offer a full return policy. I like to know the reason for a return, but I accept returns for any reason.

 

If a customer receives a pen from me and in some respect -- any respect -- it is not as the bidder expected or hoped, I PREFER that the customer request a return rather than their living with a disappointment, because I believe the welcoming of a return in such a situation, even with the attendant costs, in the long run accrues to my benefit in terms of repeat business and reputation. If I list a Sheaffer Imperial and some folks bid it up to $175 believing it to be a PFM due to their own ignorance (let's say I didn't specifically say "it's not a PFM", but the pictures and model name were clear), then the buyer requests a return based on their error, I would happily accept it, knowing that such service -- backing my return policy with sincerety -- is a net positive for my sales. That policy, and the attendant reputation for painlessly accepting returns, not only encourages repeat business even from disappointed buyers, but I believe it also marginally increases bids due to the confidence buyers have that they can take a bit of a chance with little downside risk.

 

There is also the matter of the limits of accuracy in eBay listings when the seller is not completely knowledgeable. In this case [edited -- green snorkel], the key attribute upon which the buyer's satisfaction hinges is the color. As a seller, I would understand that a bidder may draw likely conclusions from the photographs I post (and any textual color descriptions), but that questions of color may not be perfectly answerable until the buyer holds the item in hand. As a seller, I accept that limitation of the venue, and knowing that bidders are aware of it, too, contributes to my offering an open return policy that I sincerely want buyers to avail themselves of. Such returns, accompanied by an explanation, also help me refine and improve my listings, which in turn would tend to lead to higher closing prices and...fewer returns.

 

So, were I the seller of this pen, I would very much want the buyer to return the pen with an explanation if it turns out not to be the color the bidder expected. It wouldn't be unethical for the bidder NOT to return it, but as a seller, I would really want to know about the disappointment. When I see sellers offering such an open return policy, and making it clear that they want my eBay experience to be a pleasant one, I take them at their word.

 

--Daniel

Edited May 6, 2009 by kirchh

[AllWriteNow]

How decidedly pleasant, professional, courteous and refreshing!

 

I agree that with such a policy in place I tend to extend my bids to a higher price point.

Conversely without such a return policy I seriously curtail my bids.

 

Steve

 

 

[david i]

How decidedly pleasant, professional, courteous and refreshing!

 

I agree that with such a policy in place I tend to extend my bids to a higher price point.

Conversely without such a return policy I seriously curtail my bids.

 

Steve

 

Interesting, though despite the kudo-laden opening line, I certainly hope you realize all this indeed is a wholly new issue.

 

As a seller, my return policy is at least as generous as any outlined above. How gracious to be as a seller and what policies to embrace certainly are valid issues, ones quite separate from how to behave as a buyer.

 

-d

Edited May 6, 2009 by david i

[AllWriteNow]

I do realize it is a separate issue.

 

None the less refreshing.

 

MY opinion of the Buyer issue again, is one that has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

I feel it takes advantage of a naive and unsuspecting seller. An advantage that I personally find abhorrent.

 

 

Having had the opportunity to do business with you David, I have nothing but Great things to say and have said to many interested and maybe some uninterested parties.

 

Just a friendly discussion.

 

Steve

 

[kirchh]

How gracious to be as a seller and what policies to embrace certainly are valid issues, ones quite separate from how to behave as a buyer.

Just to be clear, were I the seller in the green snorkel auction, with a satisfaction and return policy as articulated, I wouldn't think it even the slightest bit unethical for the buyer to return the item if it turned out not to be the expected color. I should have stated that explicitly in my original post -- that was the point to which I was driving.

 

--Daniel

Edited May 6, 2009 by kirchh

[twdpens]

Not wishing to thread-hijack but it's worth reminding buyers in the UK (and probably the rest of Europe too) that customers have the legal right to return any good bought by a distance selling method for any reason. This does not, of course, apply to private sales.

 

Martin

[david i]

I do realize it is a separate issue.

 

None the less refreshing.

 

Refreshing vs what?

 

MY opinion of the Buyer issue again, is one that has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

Which buyer issue? The one in which you win an auction and return the item because you were not sure what you were bidding on? Or some other buyer issue?

 

I feel it takes advantage of a naive and unsuspecting seller. An advantage that I personally find abhorrent.

 

Then you agree with me. It is wrong to win an honest auction and to return item because you were not sure what you were bidding on.

 

Having had the opportunity to do business with you David, I have nothing but Great things to say and have said to many interested and maybe some uninterested parties.

 

Just a friendly discussion.

 

Steve

 

Likewise

 

-d

[david i]

How gracious to be as a seller and what policies to embrace certainly are valid issues, ones quite separate from how to behave as a buyer.

Just to be clear, were I the seller in the green snorkel auction, with a satisfaction and return policy as articulated, I wouldn't think it even the slightest bit unethical for the buyer to return the item if it turned out not to be the expected color. I should have stated that explicitly in my original post -- that was the point to which I was driving.

 

--Daniel

 

 

Just to be clear, I make no comments as to the mindset of any given seller in this matter. Indeed, this seller takes items back no questions asked, so disagreement about policy is not in play. I do, however, consider it unethical for one to play without insight as a bidder in an arena and to count on the graciousness of others to bail him out for his irresponsibility, greed or gambling (yes, we can debate "irresponsibility", "greed", "gambling" next). Or, I guess, we can divert the whole thread by asking "don't you think it's bad to request BIN?"

 

-d

Edited May 6, 2009 by david i

[david i]

Not wishing to thread-hijack but it's worth reminding buyers in the UK (and probably the rest of Europe too) that customers have the legal right to return any good bought by a distance selling method for any reason. This does not, of course, apply to private sales.

 

Martin

 

Not a hijack. But, i point us back to response cited earlier to similar comment. Legalisms are not the issue. What one can do is not the issue. What one should do is the issue.

 

regards

 

d

[MsLoathsome]

If the seller states an unqualified return policy, I don't really see why a buyer should be faulted for utilizing a seller's return policy for any reason. Sellers can just as easily say, "No refunds, period." If this makes me as a buyer unethical in some people's eyes, then I guess I'm unethical.

 

I think some of the disagreement also stems from changing or evolving retail views as to what constitutes a reason for a refund. I thought I read an article once explaining that in the past, many retail stores did not accept refunds, or did so at their discretion. That standard has clearly changed now, even for the most mundane things. If I bought a brand of toilet bowl cleaner at Target, but once home realized that I really liked a different brand, Target lets me go back and get a refund or exchange the cleaners. Is this unethical? The only reason here for the return is that I changed my mind.

[publius]

An interesting discussion. The ethics of commercial transactions have always been a subject of controversy, for the fundamental reason that a person selling something is doing so in the expectation that it is worth more to the buyer than it is to him, & conversely that the payment he receives is more valuable to him than the item he is selling. There is, I would argue, a general consensus that as between a merchant & a private buyer, the benefit of asymmetrical information should accrue to the buyer (i.e., if the seller is asking too low a price, the buyer has no responsibility to raise it, whereas if the buyer pays more than the object is worth, the seller has a responsibility to make reparation), which probably evolved because it is easier for a dealer to cheat someone else than himself, & not easy for a buyer to cheat a dealer — but as between private parties it is another matter.

 

I have never returned for dissatisfaction an item I have purchased on eBay. In a couple of instances I have received a (full or partial) refund, e.g. if the item was broken in shipment. In a couple of other cases, I have found that the item was either not as described (due, in the case I am thinking of, to what appeared to be an honest error on the seller's part combined with a slightly less than sufficient description), or that it was unsuitable for use due to a concealed flaw, but have chosen to keep it rather than return for refund.

 

I am currently selling some things on eBay, with a stated "no returns" policy. This is partly because the postage for the items is almost more than the sale price, & partly because these are multiple-item fixed-price sales, I do not believe there is anything to say about the items that I have not said, & the question function is available. In other words, I cannot see any way that someone could buy one of these items without understanding exactly what he was getting, & as they are my own products I know there is no better price to be had anywhere. Hence, the buyer could not benefit by a return.

Edited May 6, 2009 by publius

[AllWriteNow]

I do realize it is a separate issue.

 

None the less refreshing.

 

Refreshing vs what?

 

vs. an ebay listing or a sale post without such a policy

 

MY opinion of the Buyer issue again, is one that has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

Which buyer issue? The one in which you win an auction and return the item because you were not sure what you were bidding on? Or some other buyer issue?

 

the buyer issue re: taking advantage of a naive seller

 

I feel it takes advantage of a naive and unsuspecting seller. An advantage that I personally find abhorrent.

 

Then you agree with me. It is wrong to win an honest auction and to return item because you were not sure what you were bidding on.

 

Nope! If the seller allows and even welcomes returns as Daniel posted.. send it back if it's not what you wanted

Having had the opportunity to do business with you David, I have nothing but Great things to say and have said to many interested and maybe some uninterested parties.

 

Just a friendly discussion.

 

Steve

 

Likewise

 

-d

the

[david i]

If the seller states an unqualified return policy, I don't really see why a buyer should be faulted for utilizing a seller's return policy for any reason.

 

I agree you don't really see it.

 

 

Sellers can just as easily say, "No refunds, period." If this makes me as a buyer unethical in some people's eyes, then I guess I'm unethical.

 

Yes, sellers could say that. I don't know what that has to do the actual case under discussion.

 

Too, if Borders allows books returned for a week after purchase, I s'pose I could read three books a week (my usual clip) forever and never have to pay anything. Just return 'em in couple days. After all, Borders allows it. Can't imagine that my doing this would render me unethical in anyone's eyes, right?

 

I think some of the disagreement also stems from changing or evolving retail views as to what constitutes a reason for a refund. I thought I read an article once explaining that in the past, many retail stores did not accept refunds, or did so at their discretion. That standard has clearly changed now, even for the most mundane things. If I bought a brand of toilet bowl cleaner at Target, but once home realized that I really liked a different brand, Target lets me go back and get a refund or exchange the cleaners. Is this unethical? The only reason here for the return is that I changed my mind.

 

Yes, keep telling yourself that.

 

-d

Edited May 6, 2009 by david i

[david i]

I do realize it is a separate issue.

 

None the less refreshing.

 

Refreshing vs what?

 

vs. an ebay listing or a sale post without such a policy

 

MY opinion of the Buyer issue again, is one that has been hashed and re-hashed.

 

Which buyer issue? The one in which you win an auction and return the item because you were not sure what you were bidding on? Or some other buyer issue?

 

the buyer issue re: taking advantage of a naive seller

 

I feel it takes advantage of a naive and unsuspecting seller. An advantage that I personally find abhorrent.

 

Then you agree with me. It is wrong to win an honest auction and to return item because you were not sure what you were bidding on.

 

Nope! If the seller allows and even welcomes returns as Daniel posted.. send it back if it's not what you wanted

Having had the opportunity to do business with you David, I have nothing but Great things to say and have said to many interested and maybe some uninterested parties.

 

Just a friendly discussion.

 

Steve

 

Likewise

 

-d

the

 

 

You might need to reformat your quotes

 

-d

[jar]

Several points.

 

I would hold the Davids to a higher standard when it comes to describing a pen than I would a general antique dealer or the guy selling what he found in a cigar box in a desk. Pens are their area of expertise and so I would expect more from them in describing the product accurately.

 

As a buyer I would not return something simply because it turns out I "don't like it".

 

BUT...

 

I also appreciate those sellers that go out of their way to make me happy, the resturant that will change a dish because I do not like it as an example.

[AllWriteNow]

David I wrote...

Refreshing vs what?

 

I responded

vs. an ebay listing or a sale post without such a policy

 

David I wrote...

Which buyer issue? The one in which you win an auction and return the item because you were not sure what you were bidding on? Or some other buyer issue?

 

I responded

the buyer issue re: taking advantage of a naive seller

 

David I wrote...

Then you agree with me. It is wrong to win an honest auction and to return item because you were not sure what you were bidding on.

 

 

I responded

Nope! If the seller allows and even welcomes returns as Daniel posted.. send it back if it's not what you wanted

 

 

I detest the quote/copy/paste discussions.

I'll try my best.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[PenHero]

And with that, this topic is closed.

 

If you want to debate eBay ethics, please open the discussion in Chatter.

 

Jim Mamoulides

www.PenHero.com