Celluloid Hairline Crack

[SincerelySpicy]

I got a great little vintage celluloid button filler at the flea market this morning, and on polishing it, I realized it was in even better condition than i thought as all the tarnish wiped off to show a bright gold (I think gold filled) layer on the clip and cap bands. I have a pic of it here

 

However, there's one flaw that I saw when i purchased it that i knew i wouldn't be able to polish off. There's a hairline crack near the top of the cap where the clip is attached and I would like to somehow stabilize this to make sure it does not get any bigger.

 

What glues or methods are there that I can use to stabilize this crack? I was thinking of probably using some extra thin cyanoacrylate and using the tip of a straight pin to drop a tiny amount into the crack. Is CA glue safe on celluloid?

 

 

Edit: Added photo

 

http://www.personal.psu.edu/evs5011/WebStorage/Crack.jpg

Edited April 20, 2009 by SJM1123

[craynerd]

I believe ideally you would chemically solvent weld the fracture rather than trying to glue it. I think acetone is not recommended due to bubbling but I think MEK may be worth a try if you can get hold of it...... I am sure someone else will come in and give more details or correct me!

 

 

Chris

Edited April 19, 2009 by craynerd

[ZeissIkon]

I believe ideally you would chemically solvent weld the fracture rather than trying to glue it. I think acetone is not recommended due to bubbling but I think MEK may be worth a try if you can get hold of it...... I am sure someone else will come in and give more details or correct me!

 

The best solvent for welding celluloid is probably "nitrate dope thinner" as sold in larger model airplane hobby shops. Nitrate dope is nothing more or less than celluloid in a solution, suitable for brushing (or, after thinning, spraying) onto a fabric or tissue covered model airplane to seal the covering. The thinner for it is a mix of (mainly) toluene and xylene. If you can't find it locally (and it's possible you can't; nitrate dope isn't the popular variety any more), you might try asking for xylene in the paint section of a large hardware store; I used to see it in the big Fred Meyer store in Seattle, a few years ago, right next to the methanol, lacquer thinner, etc. A pint should set you back around $5, and provide enough solvent to weld approximately 14,726 cracks in celluloid pen caps and barrels... Do avoid breathing it as much as possible -- it's bad for you; it's also highly flammable, so no smoking, no working near heaters or ranges or burning stuff. And: no guarantee it'll work, or that it won't do more harm than good; I've never actually attempted welding celluloid with this stuff, I just know it's part of a solvent that is compatible with celluloid.

 

BTW, failing that, and subject to the above cautions in triplicate, you might also find ether, as sold for starting engines in very cold weather, will act as a solvent for celluloid; get it at auto parts stores, spray a little into the cap to get a little liquid, and work fast (it evaporates in a big hurry).

 

Personally, I wouldn't recommend using MEK for anything; my limited experience with it is that stuff dissolved with MEK may never reharden, and MEK is *far* worse for you than either ether or xylene...

[safetyfast]

I wonder how PVC pipe solvent would work. It has MEK, and I think it may have acetone as well.

[LedZepGirl]

I've heard you can use acetone too? If I'm wrong someone correct me please. I know I've heard MEK can be used (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) but acetone is similar.

[SincerelySpicy]

I believe ideally you would chemically solvent weld the fracture rather than trying to glue it. I think acetone is not recommended due to bubbling but I think MEK may be worth a try if you can get hold of it...... I am sure someone else will come in and give more details or correct me!

 

 

Chris

 

To be honest, i'm not sure a chemical weld will work too well. The two walls of the crack don't meet except at the ends and there's no way to push them together (i edited the original post to add a photo if you'd like to take a look). I think all i can really do is somehow fill the crack with something that's both strong in itself and adheres well to the celluloid to prevent further cracking.

Edited April 20, 2009 by SJM1123

[OldGriz]

I would suggest not doing this yourself without a lot of experience...

That is too nice a pen to screw up the repair..

I would send the pen to Ron Zorn who has become a master at that type of repair..

He has done a couple of pens for me and you can't see the repair on any of them...

[rhosygell]

Model aircraft glue of the polystyrene cement type would possibly work.

 

Anothe option would be a drop of cellulose paint thinner.

 

Take extreme care as it will ignite readily and melt most finishes.

[Pippin60]

I would suggest not doing this yourself without a lot of experience...

That is too nice a pen to screw up the repair..

I would send the pen to Ron Zorn who has become a master at that type of repair..

He has done a couple of pens for me and you can't see the repair on any of them...

 

You don't mention the vintage of the pen, but if the rest of the pen as in good or better condition I agree with OldGriz. I don't know how much these repairs can run but I don't think you want to experiment either. I'm not familiar with the nature of celluloid but it may end up spreading. Contact Ron he's on here and I'll bet he'll at least give you an estimate assuming the rest of the pen is in good condition and you can get the inner workings tuned up as well.

 

[Ron Z]

I won't go into detail on what I use for a number of reasons. One is that it took me the better part of 5 years of experimenting to find the right stuff, and to figure out how to blend the repair. Another is that the chemicals that I use are not available to the average person. It may be possible to get satisfactory results from off the shelf materials. It's also possible to really screw things up.

 

The adhesives for polystyrene will not work on celluloid.

 

MEK can be found at Home Depot and other such places here in the US. It does fuse celluloid, and is the best material available to the average person. "Best" being a relative term. Methylene chloride is found in Tenax 7R, which is used for gluing things like model airplanes.

 

The crack is an issue. If the edges do not close, the gap needs to be filled, and then you are into another whole dimension of repair. There are some types of damage that do not repair well, such as when you find the very fine cracks and crazing that go down into the plastic. This however looks like one that could be repaired.

[SincerelySpicy]

I won't go into detail on what I use for a number of reasons. One is that it took me the better part of 5 years of experimenting to find the right stuff, and to figure out how to blend the repair. Another is that the chemicals that I use are not available to the average person. It may be possible to get satisfactory results from off the shelf materials. It's also possible to really screw things up.

 

The adhesives for polystyrene will not work on celluloid.

 

MEK can be found at Home Depot and other such places here in the US. It does fuse celluloid, and is the best material available to the average person. "Best" being a relative term. Methylene chloride is found in Tenax 7R, which is used for gluing things like model airplanes.

 

The crack is an issue. If the edges do not close, the gap needs to be filled, and then you are into another whole dimension of repair. There are some types of damage that do not repair well, such as when you find the very fine cracks and crazing that go down into the plastic. This however looks like one that could be repaired.

 

 

Around how much would the repair run?

[safetyfast]

I know it's a bit unorthodox, but I attempted a crack repair over the weekend with some PVC pipe solvent. It was a tight crack in a Parker Slimfold cap. I slightly seperated the crack, and brushed the solvent with a small paint brush from the inside. Let it dry overnight, and it appears to be a very strong repair. It's a pen I like, but not valuable enough to justify much expense.

[Ron Z]

Around how much would the repair run?

 

It depends on how bad the crack is, and how long the repair takes. I try to keep the charge down, but to do the repair right does take some time.

[grimakis]

I think I might have an idea for a powerful solvent, but trying to get a hold of some might send up a red flag. In fact I shouldn't even suggest it, so I won't.

[publius]

I think I might have an idea for a powerful solvent, but trying to get a hold of some might send up a red flag. In fact I shouldn't even suggest it, so I won't.

I think I might post a reply, but I won't.

[SMG]

I would not recommend Toluene on celluloid. I tried it, once. The toluene destablilized the celluloid causing deep crazing and a deep layer of white deplasticized material on the surface.

I use MEK with acceptable results, only because I cannot obtain the solvent that Ron and Richard use here in Canada. In fact I solvent welded a barrel on a Waterman 100 year last week that you cannot see the repair on at all.

My suggestion for the average pen restorer is to use MEK and nothing else.

As for the OP's crack repair, send it to Ron. You will not be disappointed.

[ZeissIkon]

I think I might have an idea for a powerful solvent, but trying to get a hold of some might send up a red flag. In fact I shouldn't even suggest it, so I won't.

I think I might post a reply, but I won't.

 

I almost mentioned that one the other day, but I was afraid someone might actually try it...

[david i]

I won't go into detail on what I use for a number of reasons. One is that it took me the better part of 5 years of experimenting to find the right stuff, and to figure out how to blend the repair. Another is that the chemicals that I use are not available to the average person. It may be possible to get satisfactory results from off the shelf materials. It's also possible to really screw things up.

 

The adhesives for polystyrene will not work on celluloid.

 

MEK can be found at Home Depot and other such places here in the US. It does fuse celluloid, and is the best material available to the average person. "Best" being a relative term. Methylene chloride is found in Tenax 7R, which is used for gluing things like model airplanes.

 

The crack is an issue. If the edges do not close, the gap needs to be filled, and then you are into another whole dimension of repair. There are some types of damage that do not repair well, such as when you find the very fine cracks and crazing that go down into the plastic. This however looks like one that could be repaired.

 

 

Too, I highly recommend Ron for this work. I note with great seriousness (rare for me) that one of the great pleasures I've had in the context of ten years as a hack-amateur-newbie pen collector, has been the chance to watch Ron's pen restoration work ... evolve... during the last 6 years. I've seen the celluloid restoration work develop. Had the chance to debate it at times (recognizing that I'm NOT a repair guy, but noting that I do handle a heck of a bunch of old pens) over dinners at Ron's home and at Ruby's at the mall. Played the "challenge" game where Ron invites me- even with my eye jaded after handling many thousands of pens per year- to "find the flaw" on a pen he tweaked before I had chance to see. I've seen the pens in various stages of restoration. I've seen the chemicals come and go.

 

And... no... I will not disclose the proprietary stuff so- really- please don't ask.

 

Old pens are tricky and rarely is there no risk to bad outcome, but- again really- you are getting remarkably high level work with flawed celluloid when you aim it El Zorno's way.

 

regards

 

David

Edited April 24, 2009 by david i

[sputnik1]

For an crack like the one shown above, would a filler be the best way to repair it, or is the appropriate solvent enough to close the gap? If so, would scraping some of the celluloid from inside the barrel and dissolving it in the proper solvent make a good filler? Of course the match would be better on a single color pen. 

[SincerelySpicy]

I've decided that i'd like to try the repair myself. Aside from the fact that I'd only paid 10 euro for the pen, I'd love to learn to do some repairs myself in the long run. So. I've gotten my hands on several scrap slabs of celluloid from an artist as well as a couple cracked third tier pen barrels made of celluloid at the flea market and I've started some experimentation to see what would be the best method to repair this pen. Among others, I'm currently testing a method that uses nothing other than celluloid itself to fill an open crack in one of the slabs as well as one of the scrap barrels. Once done, i'll do some stress testing on the pieces to see how well it holds. If it works out, I'll be sure to post results.

 

 

Thanks for the responses,

Ern