Pen show

[Titivillus]

Also "All the backslapping and joviality was directed to the inner circles" does not happen at any pen show I have been to...

Sure there is an inner circle of people who do the shows and have known each other for years... BUT, they have never ignored a newbie that I have seen...

It is fairly common after the show for a bunch of us to sit around the hotel lobby and discuss our sales, purchases and what we saw at the show... it is also rather common to see a newbie stand outside the group and attempt to listen.... at every show I have been at that person was invited to sit in and join the conversation....

Yes, there is an inner circle... BUT NO they do not exclude anyone from joining the conversations....

 

Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Titivillus]

.....

YES, there are sellers at shows who are only interested in making a buck and not talking to anyone who is not buying.... BUT they are far and away the minority at any show I have done or visited over the past years....

 

Yes and maybe because I noticed them when I was at the last show I visited that I remembered them.

 

 

K

 

 

 

[Titivillus]

Is a comparison of how many shows each have been to needed to prove my point....

My statement is based on the number of shows I have not only been to as a seller, but the shows I go to as a looker....

I can put up two shows I was at and in both cases I had a commerce feeling. If you've been to more that's great but does not mean that I did not experience what I did.

 

K

 

[Titivillus]

... In that time here, I've seen countless times

when VERY BUSY people like Richard Binder, El Zorno and Thomas took their time to help out someone

who was a nOOb (like me) who at that time, they had ZERO likelyhood of directly being "paid for" doing so.

 

How about all of the people who don't repair or sell pens that have helped out noobies? This is a very friendly hobby.

 

[OldGriz]

Is a comparison of how many shows each have been to needed to prove my point....

My statement is based on the number of shows I have not only been to as a seller, but the shows I go to as a looker....

I can put up two shows I was at and in both cases I had a commerce feeling. If you've been to more that's great but does not mean that I did not experience what I did.

 

K

 

Of course you had a commerce feeling... that is what the shows are for... To sell pens....

If someone is going to show expecting to not find a commerce feel of people looking to sell their wares, they will be sadly disappointed...

Pen shows are not for looking at collections and OHHING and AHHING.... it is a place to purchase pens... if you happen to see stuff you can Ohh and Ahh at all the better.

As for "Catching up and making deals behind the tables.", that is no different from any trade show I have ever been too...

People who are friends get together behind their sales tables and talk, if pen deals are made at the same time, great.. if not they are getting reacquainted..

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

... In that time here, I've seen countless times

when VERY BUSY people like Richard Binder, El Zorno and Thomas took their time to help out someone

who was a nOOb (like me) who at that time, they had ZERO likelyhood of directly being "paid for" doing so.

 

How about all of the people who don't repair or sell pens that have helped out noobies? This is a very friendly hobby.

 

Yes it has shown itself to be a very friendly hobby to me. And in whaever small nOObish ways I can, I try to do the

same myself.

 

The angle of the discussion was however, the more "commerce" related people that go out of their way to be helpful

when they may or may not realize any financial profit from having taken that time, and that's the angle I was addressing.

 

I was simply pointing out that there are several people I've noticed here that do pen work for either their primary incomes

or STRONG secondary ones that take time they could use to make money working on pens and give freely of it helping

some nOOb out that they have no immediate expectation of gaining anything financially profitable from. My presumption is,

if they'll do that here, they'd also do the same at a show.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

[QM2]

...

All the backslapping and joviality was directed to the inner circles.

 

Until "they" found out you are trying to spend several millions of dollars.

 

Then the "wrong" clothes or lack of English wasn't an issue anymore.

 

Cool, you've spent several million dollars at a pen show?

Do tell, I hope it was something pretty!

 

And that is the best you can offer ?

 

Is the focus only on money ?

 

For you, and for you only to know: yes, I walked away with over a half million in orders placed.

 

That isn't the F***** (fountain pen) point.

 

But that seems to allude you.

 

Oh, well never mind then! I thought you said it was several million dollars.

[jd50ae]

I am just a bit confused.

 

The original poster had a problem with a pen show he attended. As far as I can tell the problem was from confusion as to what a pen show is, compared to what a pen club or meeting is.

One is for "commerce", that is the reason it is being held and a bit of visiting and kibitzing on the side and when time allows.

One is for talking and showing off, enjoying each others stories, and with perhaps a little commerce on the side.

 

Then the thread took a strange turn.......

 

I have done about 100 different commerce "shows" in my time and I put up with the lack of sleep, the long drives, the long hours, bad food, rude customers and sore feet to make some money. It is so much fun. Why I can't imagine why everyone doesn't do it just once in their life. It is kinda like being a meat cutter behind all that one way glass, you would be amazed at what really goes on.

 

And woe be unto the dealer at these shows that does not take the time to help a potential customer even if it means taking a lot of time to do so. You want people to come back to the shows the next time you make the drive and pay for a table. I was never so happy as when a previous browser came back and bought something from me because he remembered our conversation from a show over a year ago.

 

If someone does not have enough to get in I am sorry but there are things that have to be paid for by both the dealers and the people holding the show. Having said that, I have never refused to talk to someone about a $5000 or higher item even though I new they were not going to purchase it. For me, and a lot of dealers, half the fun of putting up with all the XXXX were the interactions between the people there, customer or dealer.

 

And yes there are is a lot of wheeling and dealing going on between the dealers at every show, no matter what is being sold, all the time. Think of it as re-stocking merchandise. And yes, I have also dickered for something just for me on more then one occasion, after all I am a customer too.

 

As far as the chit chat goes, give me a break. What else are you going to do when things are slow. And you do see old friends at these shows in back of and in front of the tables so excuse me if I take the time to say hello or get them a chair and invite them to join me.

 

PS" What wrong clothes? "Shows" are for the most part weekend affairs and people show up from work, the gym, church and in just about any dress you could bring to mind. I had a Bride's Maid show up because she forgot something and on the way to the wedding she stopped in and all was made well.

Edited April 7, 2009 by jd50ae

[Snowcap]

Oh, well never mind then! I thought you said it was several million dollars.

 

 

I rest my case.

 

[Vintagepens]

Those who are commenting here based upon their knowledge of US pen shows and pen show culture might wish to keep in mind that the OP was recounting his experience at a European pen show -- Cologne, most likely. Different places, different mores.

 

And one doesn't go demanding to speak to someone's superior when the show is being run by one person -- as is usually the case with pen shows (the exception being when there is a small group running things, with no formal hierarchy).

 

There are at least a couple of FAQ pages on attending your first pen show, and it would have been a good idea to look at them beforehand. All make it quite clear that bringing plenty of money is a must! Incidentally, the Cologne show is situated in a location quite without any nearby ATMs or banks. Most other shows are at least near an ATM, European shows especially.

 

 

[I am not a number]

Well shock and horror as I was treated like a criminal, hardly anyone who ran the event could speak english and after 50 minutes I was kicked out for not having enough money to pay the entrance fee (I was 5 Euros short).

English is not the default (or even required) language for running a show in Europe, which is a big place with a lot of nationalities in it. It is also generally accepted at shows that I go to that if you don't have the entrance fee, you don't get in.

 

Sorry that the OP had a bad time, but the initial premise is slanted against a great experience.

[Gothmeister]

Well shock and horror as I was treated like a criminal, hardly anyone who ran the event could speak english and after 50 minutes I was kicked out for not having enough money to pay the entrance fee (I was 5 Euros short).

English is not the default (or even required) language for running a show in Europe....

 

Exactly! Why should one EXPECT other nationalities to speak English in their own country and be annoyed when they don't? Germans don't come to Canterbury and expect everyone to speak German.

 

And how much WAS the entrance fee, for heaven's sake, if you didn't have enough cash?

[pen2paper]

well I'm packing it in for the day..very tired

best to all.

p2p

Edited April 8, 2009 by pen2paper

[Parker51]

Well, First, I seriously doubt that any pen show, or any other enterprise that invites the public in to an activity, provides for their accommodations, and that of the sellers, no matter how small would only have one person doing all of the tasks involved.

 

Second, I am curios as to how anyone could make a significant profit from selling Fountain Pens at shows. They are not frequent enough, sales volumes are fairly low at each show, transportation and accommodation costs are high, and Show Organizers charge to set up. As I see it, only those whom are participating as sales Representatives of major manufactures, or retailers, there primarily for exposure, and those whom do repairs, again for exposure, and to complete some repairs on site actually are earning a significant income. I suggest that most everyone else is there because they enjoy it. I am not saying that some people do not earn a little extra income, but rather that most could earn significantly more income from engaging in alternative activities. Thus, selling at Pen shows for most participants is a Hobby. I have a friend whom addresses this type of situation from a highly analytical basis. He calculates the return on his investment of time for any activity of life that he can pay someone else to do, and, unless it is something he enjoys doing, or he can do it himself in less time than it would take to earn the income to pay someone else to do it, he does not do it himself. I myself literally exchange time off work for Money. In my case, literally every minute I take off for Holiday costs me cash. Thus, I would never consider setting up and selling anything, unless it was enjoyable. My wife and I used to deal in antiques, and we seldom in net showed any profit when we factored in the costs associated with obtaining the merchandise, preparing it for sale, transporting it, paying the associated fees to sell it, and paid the required taxes.

 

 

[Dylan]

Okay...I guess this is a sensitive topic.

 

Seeing that it was my first pen show, ever, I had no idea how they work and therefore did not expect to pay an entrance fee. Normally in South Africa trade shows have no entrance fee. The traders pay the organisors for the event and the traders recoup that in their sales (and hopefully profit).

 

I was also on an intense across Europe business trip and only found out about the show by complete chance. I had no intention of logging onto FPN during the trip, but only did so as I had 20 mins after our board meeting while waiting for our taxi. So I logged on and found out the show was on. Unfortunately I searched the internet feverishly and couldn't find a starting or closing time or whether there was an entrance fee or not.

 

I did not think of looking for a "first pen show checklist" which actually is a very good idea and something I should have done. It would have made all the difference.

 

As far as taking money to the show is concerned. The entrance fee was 32 Euros (I had 27 Euros). I had never been to a pen show in my life and I have been a devouted collector for 20 years I would have paid with a smile if I had it or if someone could have helped me get to a bank. Given I have 135 pens and in the past two months I have spent over $5000 on pens, so 32 Euros would not have broken the bank. I repeated several times that I needed someone to please take me to a bank, my taxi is coming back at 12pm and I don't have a number to phone him and ask him to come earlier so that I can go to a bank and come back in time and that I had a meeting with the MD of our consulting group at 1pm that I couldn't be late for.

 

Unfortunately what could have happened is that they thought I was trying my luck. They didn't know that I have been collecting for 2 decades and that attending the show was to be a highlight of my 20 year pen hobby.

 

So given the context of a 20 year dedication to this hobby and the sheer excitement I had in the taxi while on the way to the show it is not unreasonable for me to not be thinking clearly and then the shock of me getting there and realising oh xxxxxxx this is not a pen club meeting, but a pen trade show and I am just some foreigner who doesn't have enough money to pay the entrance fee, can't speak the language and I don't know anyone here so no one would think hey Dylan...gosh you don't have enough money..silly you...let's help by taking you to a bank so you to can share in the fun...(standing outside was 20 plus vehicles)....you have waited 20 years for this...man that is a long time.

 

If I was at "your" pen show and the same thing happened I would hope that someone would say..hey bud how can we help you. Not "hey get out!"

Edited April 8, 2009 by Collector

[pen2paper]

...there are as many different reasons for visiting, selling at shows, as there are brands, and models.. ..my one and only pen show met and exceeded all expectations.

Edited April 9, 2009 by pen2paper

[Vintagepens]

A couple of further notes on differences between European and American pen shows, and hence potential for misunderstandings:

 

American pen shows are held in hotels, and run for multiple days. There is plenty of down time.

European pen shows are almost all one-day events. They start in the morning, not always all that early, and end in the afternoon. There is little to no down time, at least at the show itself.

 

Americans are not in the habit of carrying large quantities of cash. The opposite holds true for certain European countries, such as Germany. At an American pen show, someone showing up with too little cash would be seen with some sympathy as unfamiliar with how pen shows, and indeed antiques and collectibles shows in general, work. In Germany, though, there would be far less sympathy -- in part because of the everyday expectation that one should carry a fair amount of cash, in part because of the German tendency to expect everyone to know and follow their rules. (No flames here, please -- I'm German myself, on my mother's side)

 

It's too bad that the OP had a less-than-wonderful experience at his first pen show, and I can only hope that others can avoid similar problems by informing themselves as much as possible beforehand -- including Americans who might be attending European shows for the first time.

[OcalaFlGuy]

$43.74 US just to get into a pen show?

 

 

er...I don't think so.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Snowcap]

$43.74 US just to get into a pen show?

 

 

er...I don't think so.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

Welcome to the real world.

[OldGriz]

$43.74 US just to get into a pen show?

 

 

er...I don't think so.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

The average cost for a US pen show for the complete weekend is $45.00, but that includes your spouse or significant other....

I can't see spending the same amount to go to a one day show... but for a whole weekend entry for 2 it is a good deal....