Difference Between Bottled And Cartridge Inks?

[patrickdeeoh]

Is there a difference?

 

Specifically Pelikan Brilliant Black 4001 bottled and cartridge?

 

 

Tried searching the forums but it said something about 3 words...

 

Thanks,

Patrick

[KrazyIvan]

Within the same brand, I would think there is no difference but I can't prove it. The only difference I can think of being the quantity you get I guess.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The cartridge. And a few cents more per milliliter to pay for it.

[KCat]

I hear conflicting stories. Cartridge inks seem to come out rather anemic compared to what comes out of the bottle, at least if recent discussions are valid (see recent thread on Pelikan Blue-black disappointing) but that may have been a matter of a dry writer vs. a cartridge v. bottle. Dunno.

 

OTOH, I've tried Lamy cartridge ink and hated it (pale, dull) while lots of folks like Lamy bottled ink. I haven't tried the bottled ink, assuming all was the same. I'm assured I'm missing out but haven't the desire to prove anyone wrong/right.

 

It is likely a brand thing. Other brands like PR and WM may be perfectly fine and give the same results regardless of the format but the cost will be higher in cartridge format. You pay for convenience. I'm not sure it's "a few cents" - I'd have to do a full comparison.

Edited June 7, 2011 by KCat

[alexander_k]

Cartridge inks seem to come out rather anemic compared to what comes out of the bottle, at least if recent discussions are valid ...

 

This has been my experience too, over a long time and with a variety of brands. Refilled cartridges (from a bottle, using a syringe) generally fare better.

Edited June 7, 2011 by alexander_k

[Phormula]

Cartridge inks seem to come out rather anemic compared to what comes out of the bottle, at least if recent discussions are valid ...

 

This has been my experience too, over a long time and with a variety of brands. Refilled cartridges (from a bottle, using a syringe) generally fare better.

 

+1

 

All the inks I have tested in both versions, the cartridges seem to be a little on the dry side.

[meghan]

The cartridges are subject to some evaporation. While they are fluid-tight, they are not air-tight. The evaporation is a very slow process but after a few years your ink may seem overly saturated and dry. A member recently happened upon an old cache of Montblanc Racing Green cartridges (hurray!) only to discover that 1/3 of the ink had evaporated from them (aww..).

[Groat]

The cartridges are subject to some evaporation. While they are fluid-tight, they are not air-tight. The evaporation is a very slow process but after a few years your ink may seem overly saturated and dry. A member recently happened upon an old cache of Montblanc Racing Green cartridges (hurray!) only to discover that 1/3 of the ink had evaporated from them (aww..).

 

I have wondered about this for a little while. It seems that I've come across two different types of plastics in cartridges. There is the soft, flexible plastic that I've seen in the international carts I've used. Then there is the rigid plastic of the Pilot/Namiki carts. It seemed to me (somebody with next to no knowledge about plastics) that perhaps the more rigid plastic would be less prone to evaporation.

[KrazyIvan]

The cartridges are subject to some evaporation. While they are fluid-tight, they are not air-tight. The evaporation is a very slow process but after a few years your ink may seem overly saturated and dry. A member recently happened upon an old cache of Montblanc Racing Green cartridges (hurray!) only to discover that 1/3 of the ink had evaporated from them (aww..).

 

 

Hmm, is this why I read somewhere that the best place to store cartridges for long term is in a jar of water?

[Pat1]

Look see https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/197073-pelikan-blue-black-a-disappointment/

4001 blue black from a cartride is grey color

Sandy and Sam show blue writing from a bottle, maybe not the same one bottle, and they are different color.

So watch that ink :ph34r: .

[RLTodd]

I believe Cross bottled is Pelikan while the cartridges are contracted out to another source.

 

Others, I haven't heard. I would not be supprised if some were different though.

[TWRDO]

Some inks are NOT the same between cartridge and bottle. Mont Blanc Midnight Blue is a good example. The bottled version is an iron-gall blue-black, and the cartridge is not iron-gall.

[Randal6393]

Some inks are NOT the same between cartridge and bottle. Mont Blanc Midnight Blue is a good example. The bottled version is an iron-gall blue-black, and the cartridge is not iron-gall.

 

There is some question about that. The Montblanc people say that the ink is the same, either cartridge or bottle. However, iron-gall is chemically active and may age faster in the cartridge than in the bottle. MB BB is pretty stable and I have not seen it age to the point (bottle version) where it acts as the cartridge version does. But I use dip pen iron-gall inks that age and need to be replaced every six months to twelve months in order to retain the writing ability that copperplate requires.

 

Upshot? So although MB BB may be the same in carts or bottle, it is best to fill a cartridge oneself from a bottle and avoid buying cartridges that may not perform as well.

 

Enjoy,

[KrazyIvan]

Wow, this is very eye opening. :embarrassed_smile:

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I'm not sure it's "a few cents" - I'd have to do a full comparison.

I said, "a few cents per milliliter." I could be more specific if I knew how much ink was in any given cartridge. But I know that when I recently bought some ink to go with a Pirre Paul "Regal" I bought as a gift, I found that Pelikan 4001 blue runs around $5-7 for a bottle, or about $2 for half a dozen short-international cartridges.

Edited June 9, 2011 by hbquikcomjamesl

[TWRDO]

I'm not sure it's "a few cents" - I'd have to do a full comparison.

I said, "a few cents per milliliter." I could be more specific if I knew how much ink was in any given cartridge. But I know that when I recently bought some ink to go with a Pirre Paul "Regal" I bought as a gift, I found that Pelikan 4001 blue runs around $5-7 for a bottle, or about $2 for half a dozen short-international cartridges.

 

Even then, your definition of "a few" cents would have to be generous. At the current price on a particular site, 4001 is 13.6 cents/mL in a bottle and carts are 55.5 cents/mL (assuming .75 mL per cartridge, which I'd say is generous Most seem to be more like .6 mL, in which case it would be over 69 cents per mL.)

 

I guess that's the price of convenience.

[Phormula]

Depends on where you do the comparison.

 

Here the figures would be 12 and 27 Euro cents, because cartridges are a commodity that you can buy even at the equivalent of WalMart, while bottled ink is sold in fewer places, mainly luxury pen shops. And I guess no ink can beat the cartridges I am using in the office, 150 Royal Blue cartridges in a plastic bag bought for 2.00 Euro at a discount store, that's 2 cents per milliliter.

[Randal6393]

That's the spirit, Phormula! Do whatever is most convenient and least expensive FOR YOU. Something that makes using a fountain pen individualized.

 

For example, I love two inks in particular -- Diamine Majestic Blue and Noodler Heart of Darkness. So I keep a few cartridges full, and my Lamy 2000 and a Pelikan M200. That way, I have my favorite inks regardless of circumstance.

 

Enjoy,

 

Depends on where you do the comparison.

 

Here the figures would be 12 and 27 Euro cents, because cartridges are a commodity that you can buy even at the equivalent of WalMart, while bottled ink is sold in fewer places, mainly luxury pen shops. And I guess no ink can beat the cartridges I am using in the office, 150 Royal Blue cartridges in a plastic bag bought for 2.00 Euro at a discount store, that's 2 cents per milliliter.

[Phormula]

That's the spirit, Phormula! Do whatever is most convenient and least expensive FOR YOU. ...

 

Exactly

 

Whenever there is a choice out there, I believe each of us can evaluate all the possible options out there and choose the one that works best for them, taking all the aspects into consideration but giving a personal, relative, value to each parameter.

 

Since I started using bottled ink at home, and given the fact that I get about 11 A4 pages out of a single cartridge, my "cartridgeage" is about 20 cartrdiges a month, i.e. 3-4 six-packs, split into 4-5 pens. With computers, the need of writing longhand has been greately reduced. Most of my writing are notes jotted at my desk or around the office and minutes of meetings I attend. Two situations where cartridges are far more practical and clean.

 

The extra cost of buying cartridges is not something that will break the bank. Actually I could put the cartridges into my business expense report. If I do not do, is because the company provides BPs for free and the desire to use a FP is a choice of mine. Actually at the office I am using the cheapest one I can find, as long as it is standard blue, it is OK. But I agree that if I were a student on a tight budget and writing a lot every day, I'd go for one liter Pelikan 4001, which is what actually what I was doing when I was young and I was there... The cost factor has a much less weight today than it had for me 30 years ago.

 

Coming back to the point, as I said, whenever I had the chance to use the same ink in bottles and cartridges, I found the ink to be slightly more wet, especially when the cartridge is running almost empty and cannot ensure a good flow. One exception is Lamy Blue. Here I have no "scientific" data, but I have the feeling that the bottled ink is a moore solid blue compared to the cartridges one, which tends to be more "washed out", but I don't know if this is simply because the cartridge one is more diluted (in fact the flow is the same of the bottled) or for some other reason.

[Randal6393]

In my case, I use Noodler Heart of Darkness as my standard ink. Black, easy-flow, and waterproof. But I often use a Pelikan Future or Bexley Simplicity as my run-around pen. Thus, I need to fill a cartridge or convertor. A cartridge is easily filled with a syringe and stopped with a bit of silicone sealant. So, I get the benefits of the old school pens such as the Pelikano. Of course, I often carry either my Lamy 2000 or a Pelikan M200 for when I need to write for hours. Just a matter of personal whimsy.

 

Enjoy,