A Pen And Ink Mystery

[d3457897d]

Hi. I'm new to the forum: first post. (Be gentle with me.)

 

I have a mystery that has driven me here. I have a small collection of fountain pens. All of them were inked with different colors, and I used them all. I'm a writer. I like lots of different colors available. Due to some sad times, economic . . . blah, blah, blah, etc., I hadn't used any of them for perhaps three or more years. I know, I know -- bad to leave them inked and neglected for a long time. Wasn't intentional or planned, your honor. So during the last few days I lovingly apologized to them all and diligently set about cleaning them with TLC and distilled water. Most came clean (enough), after patient and repeated soaking, flushing, and rinsing.

 

The last bunch I cleaned were three, cheap, old Sheaffers. I am not a pen snob; if it writes well, its looks are secondary. These old Sheaffers are about as cheap as pens get, but the nibs are great, so I use them. Two came clean. But one seemed weird. I examined it closely under a magnifier; it indeed was strange. It appeared to have "melted" in places down through the extent of the ink feed, from the cartridge connection to the nib.

 

I did not use any cleaning solutions. I only used distilled water at room temperature. So, the mystery question is could the ink sitting in the pen for a long time have caused a chemical melting of the pen ink feed? Nothing else the ink contacted was changed, only the one component which makes up the entirety of that old, Sheaffer ink feed.

 

What ink? should be your question. I had just gotten a bottle of Noodler's Bay State Blue. I had read about it. I knew it was different and sort of semi-permanent, different from basic water-based ink and that I could expect it to stain quite a bit. Being slightly concerned how it would affect my precious pens, I thought it a good idea to start it in my least expensive pen, one of my old Sheaffers. I remember writing with it, but still not sure about the Noodler's Bay State Blue ink. Great color, but the ink seemed "stiffer" to write with, not as flowing as I prefer. Then the pen sat for that long period of time, and now you are up to date.

 

I'm attaching a couple pictures of the damaged ink feed sitting beside another undamaged ink feed. My light was poor; hope you can see the difference in the two.

 

I should also note that all the pens, including the "melted" Sheaffer, were stored in the same leather pen holder pouch at room temperature in a safe and dry spot.

 

So, mystery lovers, did Noodler's Bay State Blue ink melt my pen? If so, do I need to be skeptical about it ruining other pens? Is this a mystery for forensic chemists, both Sheaffer's and Noodler's?

 

I welcome your thoughts. Thank you.

[ANM]

I read a thread recently where Noodler,s and specifically Bay State Blue was purported to do that kind of damage to some feeds.

[Happy Harry]

Some plastics do seem to be affected by some inks, whether it's the ink that's at fault or a plastic manufacturing fault isn't clear ( one has to open minded as it seems to be a rare issue). The ink you mentioned has been the subject of some debate, suffice to say it appears to be a "taboo" subject as far as I can see on this site. I have used the brand you mention, but not that particular ink, with no problem, I don't use Noodlers anymore for the simple reason the ones I had where a bit slow drying. Whatever the cause it was very effective at ruining the nib.

[jimhughes]

I've had Noodler's BSB in Noodler's Roller Ball and Kaweco Sport, Roller Ball. The later lasted longer than the former, but both suffered softened plastic tips with a loosening of the socket the ball was in. The Roller Ball, fell out in both. I have not tried BSB in any of my Sheaffers. I suspect different plastic formulations may or may not work with BSB. YMMV, Jim

[raging.dragon]

It's possible. Most inks are acidic or slightly basic, and most Noodler's inks are pH neutral; however, the Baystate inks are among the most basic inks on the market, and some (but not all) plastics can be damaged by bases.

[Fabienne]

Well, that doesn't look good. Sorry to say, there is a prime suspect here. One of my all time favorite inks,too. Maybe they should change its name to Femme Fatale.

[Rider1325a]

My guess would be that the was acidic, thereby causing the feed to "melt". It may also Have to do with the pen's construction and what the pen was made of.

[MadAmos]

Does anyone else find it odd that this is the first and only post by this person and that post seven is another first time poster.

 

Maybe I am too sensitive but this just feels like another potential BSB bashing thread to me.

 

Personally I use Bay State Blue regularly in both vintage and modern pens with no issues. I have a pilot 78g that has been filled with BSB since September of 2012 and I just refill it without flushing every 2-3 weeks. I have used it for extended periods of time in a Edison Nouveau LE also with no issues.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Nice Sheaffer school pen, though. Ivory color?

 

Keep the body, find another section.

[d3457897d]

I appreciate the helpful comments. Thank you all so much.

 

I came to this forum seeking help solving a mystery. I tried to clearly present the facts. I had no intention of "bashing" anything, as MadAmos alleges.

 

And to Sailor Kenshin -- The pen body color may have been white or ivory originally. I have used it for so long with so many different inks and colors that it now sports an attractive scarred patina, making it all the more treasured and valuable to me.

[MadAmos]

I did not mean to come off so harsh it is just that these type of posts have a tendency to strike a nerve due to how they have gone in the past.

 

I will extend the olive branch as it looks like I was a bit hasty in this case.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I appreciate the helpful comments. Thank you all so much.

 

I came to this forum seeking help solving a mystery. I tried to clearly present the facts. I had no intention of "bashing" anything, as MadAmos alleges.

 

And to Sailor Kenshin -- The pen body color may have been white or ivory originally. I have used it for so long with so many different inks and colors that it now sports an attractive scarred patina, making it all the more treasured and valuable to me.

 

 

I understand the attachment. They are good writers and sturdy pens. You can probably buy more of these school pens from pen shows, fleabay, or here in Classifieds.

 

It never hurts to have a 'spare parts' drawer.

[tmenyc]

I respect the fact that the poster is new here, and welcome him/her. Know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding BSB, and posts about it are legendary around here. I am also a huge fan, I mix it 2:2:1 with Bay State Grape and water, but also respect the warnings of those who are far more knowledgeable than I, and have only used it in Esterbrooks, desk pens and normal. This use has been very extensive, for some years. Yes, it stained the pens, my fingers, and everything else it touched. Yes, it's a great great great color. Like driving the expressways around New York City and drinking alcohol (not together, though), it fits into a category of activities I do with awareness of the concomitant risk. Write on!

 

Tim

[mhosea]

This joins a short list of cases where BSB has been implicated in plastic damage of this nature. I'm a trained skeptic, but I don't need any more data to urge me to caution with this ink. In fact, I didn't need this case. I decided long ago not to buy a bottle, and the sample I have gets used only in cheap pens. Having said that, given literally years of successful use by many FPN members, I wonder if letting it dry out in a pen is a necessary element of these melting damage cases.

 

There is just one key fact that I think must not be forgotten. Baystate inks are specifically advertised to be unique in the Noodler's line, alkaline and un-mixable with all other Noodler's inks.

[Garageboy]

I wanted to do a few coupon tests, but can't get anyone to machine plastic bars into proper shapes. I was planning to soak plastics with baystate blue and see if they altered the elastic limits of the plastics

[Bill Wood]

Maybe and maybe not. One must look at outside forces as well. Were the pens stored near a heat source? How were they cleaned prior to adding the ink in question? What were they cleaned with? 3 to 4 years is a looong time for ANY ink, in ANY fountain pen. The Sheaffer School Pens are workhorses - but they're certainly not ink storage containers; and I believe those feeds are hard plastic not pliable ebonite. Any plastic solvent can do that kind of damage; and any ink with the slightest bit of acidic Ph value could do that. As the ink dries it stands to reason that whatever is in the feed will become stronger. Without a little more data it's tough to pass judgement on ink only. One question - are the nibs corroded in any way ?

[raging.dragon]

My guess would be that the was acidic, thereby causing the feed to "melt". It may also Have to do with the pen's construction and what the pen was made of.

 

Maybe and maybe not. One must look at outside forces as well. Were the pens stored near a heat source? How were they cleaned prior to adding the ink in question? What were they cleaned with? 3 to 4 years is a looong time for ANY ink, in ANY fountain pen. The Sheaffer School Pens are workhorses - but they're certainly not ink storage containers; and I believe those feeds are hard plastic not pliable ebonite. Any plastic solvent can do that kind of damage; and any ink with the slightest bit of acidic Ph value could do that. As the ink dries it stands to reason that whatever is in the feed will become stronger. Without a little more data it's tough to pass judgement on ink only. One question - are the nibs corroded in any way ?

 

While acids attack most metals, plastics tend to be fairly acid resistant. However, strong bases (the opposite of acids) can destroy some plastics. As it happens BSB is quite basic, and as noted it would get more concentrated (and thus more basic) over the years.

[alkman]

The picture reminded me of damage to a Nettuno feed that was posted several years earlier here.

[mhosea]

There are certainly times when I wish I'd taken more chemistry. I checked some chemical resistance charts for a few different plastics, and I wouldn't have been able to generalize about plastics versus acids and alkalies based on what I saw. I saw excellent resistance alongside poor resistance for each. Heck, I saw that glycerin reacts with polycarbonate. I'm thinking as modern companies move production, change biocides, and reformulate as they see fit or are forced to do by circumstances beyond their control, life is increasingly like Forrest Gump's proverbial box of chocolates. The only thing I can think to do is flush pens regularly and store them dry.

Edited February 5, 2013 by mhosea

[raging.dragon]

There are certainly times when I wish I'd taken more chemistry. I checked some chemical resistance charts for a few different plastics, and I wouldn't have been able to generalize about plastics versus acids and alkalies based on what I saw. I saw excellent resistance alongside poor resistance for each. Heck, I saw that glycerin reacts with polycarbonate. I'm thinking as modern companies move production, change biocides, and reformulate as they see fit or are forced to do by circumstances beyond their control, life is increasingly like Forrest Gump's proverbial box of chocolates. The only thing I can think to do is flush pens regularly and store them dry.

 

Not only are ink makers reformulating, pen makers are experimenting with different plastics. I agree that the best option is to flush pens and store them dry.