Wenol vs. Simichrome

[FredRydr]

I've had both for decades, and have always chosen the first one I find around the house. Now that I'm in the pen hobby, I wonder if one is less abrasive than the other. Are there other aspects I should be aware of?

 

I have American Art Plastic's great new two-stage pen cleaner and polish for celluloid, hard rubber & etc., but I still need something more aggressive, such as for cleaning metals.

 

Fred

[Mike]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

[dannzeman]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

 

It befuddles me how some wring their hands over Simichrome knowing all the while that someone like Richard Binder not only uses it but recommends and sells it FOR use with pens. (And no, I'm sure Richard isn't getting wealthy from his Simichrome commissions.)

 

I am not saying Richard is omnipotent or anything, but I DO doubt very seriously that he'd sell a product that he knew the average pen user was likely to harm his pens with. (Certainly without any dire warnings on his part which he doesn't issue that I'm aware of with Simichrome)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Mike]

Well, bully for them. A lot of nibmeisters apparently use a Dremel, but I'm not going to recommend that people who don't know what they're doing try that at home to adjust their own pens, either. Ditto, a buffing wheel to polish plastic.

 

Richard does note that "it’s abrasive" enough to "wear away the design on chased parts", which I think is rather an understatement.

 

But, meh, whatever. If the herd says it's the bee's knees, heaven forbid I dissent. No, no, I can find my way to the Reeducation Camp on my own, Comrade, thanks...

Edited January 29, 2010 by Mike

[kirchh]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

A few points. "Going against the current" is a rather weak basis upon which to criticize an approach, given the track record of "the current". What "most restorers" do, again, provides little in the way of guidance, as restorers are all over the place in terms of their knowledge and experience. Furthermore, though the claim is made that most restorers swear by Simichrome, I would be interested in the basis for this claim, especially if it is narrowed to very experienced restorers.

 

--Daniel

[dannzeman]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

A few points. "Going against the current" is a rather weak basis upon which to criticize an approach, given the track record of "the current". What "most restorers" do, again, provides little in the way of guidance, as restorers are all over the place in terms of their knowledge and experience. Furthermore, though the claim is made that most restorers swear by Simichrome, I would be interested in the basis for this claim, especially if it is narrowed to very experienced restorers.

 

--Daniel

Really? Do a search for simichrome and see how many threads pop up. Whenever a thread is started about polishing it seems simichrome is almost certainly listed as a favorite. Add to that the fact the Richard Binder uses and sells it.

 

Also, I wasn't criticizing. I was mearly making a statement that the majority of people here are in favor of using Simichrome.

[kirchh]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

 

It befuddles me how some wring their hands over Simichrome knowing all the while that someone like Richard Binder not only uses it but recommends and sells it FOR use with pens. (And no, I'm sure Richard isn't getting wealthy from his Simichrome commissions.)

 

I am not saying Richard is omnipotent or anything, but I DO doubt very seriously that he'd sell a product that he knew the average pen user was likely to harm his pens with. (Certainly without any dire warnings on his part which he doesn't issue that I'm aware of with Simichrome)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

I will try to de-fuddle you. I wring my hands over Simichrome, even though I know that Richard Binder uses and sells it. It is not formulated to be used on, and to be safe with, the non-metal materials typically found in vintage pens. So, we cannot rely on the maker's intentions and testing in that regard. Next, Simichrome is excessively agressive, in my experience, and my experience includes a great deal of work with analyzing and restoring metal trim parts on pens. Finally, Simichrome can easily find its way into every nook, cranny, crevice, crack, thread, seam, hole, slot, and slit on a vintage pen, and it is difficult to completely remove all traces of it. I've handled probably thousands of pens that have been "restored" that have Simichrome paste residue in/on them. It can and will clog nibs and feed channels, and the residue is essentially powdered abrasive. I guarantee that if you go to your collection and examine pens that have been "restored" by professionals, you will find examples with pinkish/whitish residue up under the clip and around the interior walls of the lever box. Take a look and report back here.

 

Richard and I are close friends, and there may be nothing we disagree about more than the use of Simichrome. I hate to speak for others, but I believe he feels that it is not harmful, and with care it can be completely removed after application. In his hands, the latter is almost certainly true, and that may eliminate or sufficiently mitigate the risks of the former. I see no reason to use it and deal with the risks and mess when there are other products that are less risky and formulated more specifically, and that are less messy.

 

Here's another thread in which this issue is explored. I will note that another experienced restorer, David Nishimura, weighs in (or "wrings his hands", I suppose) as well. (The quoting structure has been lost in some posts, so read them with care to discern who is saying what.)

 

--Daniel

[dannzeman]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

 

It befuddles me how some wring their hands over Simichrome knowing all the while that someone like Richard Binder not only uses it but recommends and sells it FOR use with pens. (And no, I'm sure Richard isn't getting wealthy from his Simichrome commissions.)

 

I am not saying Richard is omnipotent or anything, but I DO doubt very seriously that he'd sell a product that he knew the average pen user was likely to harm his pens with. (Certainly without any dire warnings on his part which he doesn't issue that I'm aware of with Simichrome)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

I will try to de-fuddle you. I wring my hands over Simichrome, even though I know that Richard Binder uses and sells it. It is not formulated to be used on, and to be safe with, the non-metal materials typically found in vintage pens. So, we cannot rely on the maker's intentions and testing in that regard. Next, Simichrome is excessively agressive, in my experience, and my experience includes a great deal of work with analyzing and restoring metal trim parts on pens. Finally, Simichrome can easily find its way into every nook, cranny, crevice, crack, thread, seam, hole, slot, and slit on a vintage pen, and it is difficult to completely remove all traces of it. I've handled probably thousands of pens that have been "restored" that have Simichrome paste residue in/on them. It can and will clog nibs and feed channels, and the residue is essentially powdered abrasive. I guarantee that if you go to your collection and examine pens that have been "restored" by professionals, you will find examples with pinkish/whitish residue up under the clip and around the interior walls of the lever box. Take a look and report back here.

 

Richard and I are close friends, and there may be nothing we disagree about more than the use of Simichrome. I hate to speak for others, but I believe he feels that it is not harmful, and with care it can be completely removed after application. In his hands, the latter is almost certainly true, and that may eliminate or sufficiently mitigate the risks of the former. I see no reason to use it and deal with the risks and mess when there are other products that are less risky and formulated more specifically, and that are less messy.

 

Here's another thread in which this issue is explored. I will note that another experienced restorer, David Nishimura, weighs in (or "wrings his hands", I suppose) as well. (The quoting structure has been lost in some posts, so read them with care to discern who is saying what.)

 

--Daniel

No reason to try to "de-fuddle" me. You may have made the mistake of assuming I'm defending the use of Simichrome or are in favor of using. I never said anything like that, in fact, I don't use it. But, not for any of the reasons you mentioned, which very well may be true. I don't use it because I have other methods the provide excellent results when polishing pens.

 

None of my statements claimed that Mike was wrong. As I said earlier, I was stating what the majority of people on FPN use Simichrome to polish pens and seem to be in favor of it. That is just my observation from reading numerous posts about polishing.

[kirchh]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

 

It befuddles me how some wring their hands over Simichrome knowing all the while that someone like Richard Binder not only uses it but recommends and sells it FOR use with pens. (And no, I'm sure Richard isn't getting wealthy from his Simichrome commissions.)

 

I am not saying Richard is omnipotent or anything, but I DO doubt very seriously that he'd sell a product that he knew the average pen user was likely to harm his pens with. (Certainly without any dire warnings on his part which he doesn't issue that I'm aware of with Simichrome)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

I will try to de-fuddle you. I wring my hands over Simichrome, even though I know that Richard Binder uses and sells it. It is not formulated to be used on, and to be safe with, the non-metal materials typically found in vintage pens. So, we cannot rely on the maker's intentions and testing in that regard. Next, Simichrome is excessively agressive, in my experience, and my experience includes a great deal of work with analyzing and restoring metal trim parts on pens. Finally, Simichrome can easily find its way into every nook, cranny, crevice, crack, thread, seam, hole, slot, and slit on a vintage pen, and it is difficult to completely remove all traces of it. I've handled probably thousands of pens that have been "restored" that have Simichrome paste residue in/on them. It can and will clog nibs and feed channels, and the residue is essentially powdered abrasive. I guarantee that if you go to your collection and examine pens that have been "restored" by professionals, you will find examples with pinkish/whitish residue up under the clip and around the interior walls of the lever box. Take a look and report back here.

 

Richard and I are close friends, and there may be nothing we disagree about more than the use of Simichrome. I hate to speak for others, but I believe he feels that it is not harmful, and with care it can be completely removed after application. In his hands, the latter is almost certainly true, and that may eliminate or sufficiently mitigate the risks of the former. I see no reason to use it and deal with the risks and mess when there are other products that are less risky and formulated more specifically, and that are less messy.

 

Here's another thread in which this issue is explored. I will note that another experienced restorer, David Nishimura, weighs in (or "wrings his hands", I suppose) as well. (The quoting structure has been lost in some posts, so read them with care to discern who is saying what.)

 

--Daniel

No reason to try to "de-fuddle" me. You may have made the mistake of assuming I'm defending the use of Simichrome or are in favor of using. I never said anything like that, in fact, I don't use it. But, not for any of the reasons you mentioned, which very well may be true. I don't use it because I have other methods the provide excellent results when polishing pens.

 

None of my statements claimed that Mike was wrong. As I said earlier, I was stating what the majority of people on FPN use Simichrome to polish pens and seem to be in favor of it. That is just my observation from reading numerous posts about polishing.

I suggest you take more care to read posts before replying. As my post clearly showed, I was specifically replying to OcalaFlGuy, not to you.

 

--Daniel

Edited January 29, 2010 by kirchh

[dannzeman]

My bad.

[kirchh]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

A few points. "Going against the current" is a rather weak basis upon which to criticize an approach, given the track record of "the current". What "most restorers" do, again, provides little in the way of guidance, as restorers are all over the place in terms of their knowledge and experience. Furthermore, though the claim is made that most restorers swear by Simichrome, I would be interested in the basis for this claim, especially if it is narrowed to very experienced restorers.

 

--Daniel

Really? Do a search for simichrome and see how many threads pop up. Whenever a thread is started about polishing it seems simichrome is almost certainly listed as a favorite. Add to that the fact the Richard Binder uses and sells it.

 

Also, I wasn't criticizing. I was mearly making a statement that the majority of people here are in favor of using Simichrome.

"How many threads pop up" in a search for "Simichrome" is of no import whatsoever with regard to your claim that "most restorers swear by" it. How many restorers swear by it in all those threads? We already know right off the bat that I and David Nishimura dislike it, and Ron Zorn has also expressed some displeasure with it in the thread to which I linked earlier. Most restorers may, indeed, swear by it, but if the reason you've concluded that is merely the number of hits on the term in a search or how many times it's recommended by people who may or may not be restorers (and who may be the same people over and over again), your claim has a faulty basis.

 

--Daniel

[FredRydr]

Oh man! I noted Ron's comment that it gets between the nib and the feed. Damn, and that's been the very part of the pen I used it on while mounted in the section. $*(%&$!!

 

Fred

[dannzeman]

Wenol is 25-35% abrasive by weight. Simichrome is 27% abrasive. Wenol is 20-40% solvent, compared to 22% for Simichrome.

 

I wouldn't use either on a pen, to be honest. Both are pretty nasty stuff, and reasonably hard to truly clean up after.

 

Thats going against the current here. Most restorers swear by Simichrome to get a great shine.

A few points. "Going against the current" is a rather weak basis upon which to criticize an approach, given the track record of "the current". What "most restorers" do, again, provides little in the way of guidance, as restorers are all over the place in terms of their knowledge and experience. Furthermore, though the claim is made that most restorers swear by Simichrome, I would be interested in the basis for this claim, especially if it is narrowed to very experienced restorers.

 

--Daniel

Really? Do a search for simichrome and see how many threads pop up. Whenever a thread is started about polishing it seems simichrome is almost certainly listed as a favorite. Add to that the fact the Richard Binder uses and sells it.

 

Also, I wasn't criticizing. I was mearly making a statement that the majority of people here are in favor of using Simichrome.

"How many threads pop up" in a search for "Simichrome" is of no import whatsoever with regard to your claim that "most restorers swear by" it. How many restorers swear by it in all those threads? We already know right off the bat that I and David Nishimura dislike it, and Ron Zorn has also expressed some displeasure with it in the thread to which I linked earlier. Most restorers may, indeed, swear by it, but if the reason you've concluded that is merely the number of hits on the term in a search or how many times it's recommended by people who may or may not be restorers (and who may be the same people over and over again), your claim has a faulty basis.

 

--Daniel

Ok, I guess I should have said most 'people' instead of 'restorers'. I was mostly thinking of Richard Binder when I made that statement.

And I don't know how many people use it. I didn't count them when I was reading the posts. But it was enough to give me the impression that there's a lot.

Edited January 29, 2010 by dannzeman

[eckiethump]

Oh man! I noted Ron's comment that it gets between the nib and the feed. Damn, and that's been the very part of the pen I used it on while mounted in the section. $*(%&$!!

 

Fred

 

 

Back on topic, I prefer Wenol to Simichrome finding it less abrasive, for gold or gold fill I use Peek, which I find even less abrasive. Imprints are protected, where possible clips etc removed, and none of them go anywhere near nibs, feeds, sections, or nooks and crannies that would, be difficult to clean out. To complete I use Renaissance wax, though the others are supposed to give a protective coat.

The argument against it, due to less than diligent use by some, could apply to quite a few actions taken on fountain pens, nib work springs to mind.

et

[Beechwood]

It looks like Wenol has had a change of name:

 

http://www.janitorialdirect.co.uk/product/?pid=3195

[Aysedasi]

I see no reason to use it and deal with the risks and mess when there are other products that are less risky and formulated more specifically, and that are less messy.

 

 

 

Whilst caring little for the nature of the debate (), I am - like many others, I'm sure - most interested in what these other products are, as a complete pen restoring/cleaning novice..... Have they all been named thus far in this thread?

Edited January 29, 2010 by Aysedasi

[Ray-Vigo]

Oh man! I noted Ron's comment that it gets between the nib and the feed. Damn, and that's been the very part of the pen I used it on while mounted in the section. $*(%&$!!

 

Fred

 

I've seen this. The most thorough fix in my estimation is to disassemble and knock-out the nib and feed. Then soak and clean off each and reset. Failing that, even a simple soak and flush regimen has helped get some of the stuff out.

 

I do use Simichrome and have been happy with the results, though I make use pretty sparingly. Daniel is right about the residue-- it gets everywhere and leaves an ugly crust. If have used it on nibs, but that involves nibs out of the section by themselves. The clean up is to immediately soak and clean off when done. This keeps it out of that area Ron described in the other thread. I use it on pens sometimes, the user grade ones I have, and use it sparingly. I've been happy with the results, but for the sake of a sane clean up use only a little.

[kirchh]

Oh man! I noted Ron's comment that it gets between the nib and the feed. Damn, and that's been the very part of the pen I used it on while mounted in the section. $*(%&$!!

 

Fred

Back on topic, I prefer Wenol to Simichrome finding it less abrasive, for gold or gold fill I use Peek, which I find even less abrasive. Imprints are protected, where possible clips etc removed, and none of them go anywhere near nibs, feeds, sections, or nooks and crannies that would, be difficult to clean out. To complete I use Renaissance wax, though the others are supposed to give a protective coat.

I'm not sold on Renaissance Wax. I understand that it does not per se promote oxidation or hydrolysis and the attendant emergence of acids as is possible with natural waxes, but it tends to attract dust and dirt, I'm unsure as to what its long-term effects might be when applied to hard rubber or celluloid, and should one want to remove it, the process I am aware of that is suitable for the job -- application of hot xylene -- is not necessarily a benign one, for pens or people (my thanks to David Nishimura for bringing this issue to my attention).

 

The argument against it, due to less than diligent use by some, could apply to quite a few actions taken on fountain pens, nib work springs to mind.

 

A mischaracterization of the argument against it. Nib work -- repair, alteration, etc. -- is a class of all the processes involved in improving a nib in some way, so if one wants to improve a nib in some way, nib work is needed; indeed, improvement of a nib should not be attempted if one is insufficiently diligent. However, use of Simichrome is but a single process that could be used for polishing, with (arguably) other superior processes available, so the argument stands. Put another way, if one wants the results of nib work, nib work is needed, but if one wants the results of polishing, Simichrome is not needed. The argument against the use of Simichrome could also apply to some particular procedure used in nib work, if there were other superior procedures available, but there the parallel would end.

 

--Daniel

[rogerb]

You guys could start a fight in an empty room

 

OK, so we've been told what not to use.... what are the very mild abrasives and polishes which you would recommend? (I'd have been very cautious about using metal polish on plastics, anyway!)

Sylvia sent me a sample of liquid carnauba from Tryphon...is that safe?..on all pens, including my Pilot 845 Urushi? The pens on which I have tried it came up so shiny as to be almost too slippery!

Thanks.

Edited January 29, 2010 by rogerb