how fine can a cursive italic nib get? are they practical?

[knitbug]

I love my Lamy Safari with its 1.1 italic nib, but I would love to find something even finer.

The pens Richard offers to convert to cursive italic on his site are a little pricy for me. Any cheaper suggestions?

Thanks!!

 

Knitbug

[FrankB]

I am interested to see what responses you get to your question. I have been under the impression for many years that 0.9 mm was the smallest commercial italic nib point that one could get. Anything smaller had to be customized. It would be nice if my impressions were wrong.

 

I don't quite understand what you mean by "practical." I use italic nibs as daily writers, whether 0.9 mm, 1.1 mm, or 1.3 mm. I often use 1.3 mm nibs for things like addressing envelopes, but I have used them for letters and cards as well. The smaller nib points are always easy for me to use in daily writing. If I had a 0.7 mm nib or even a 0.5 mm nib, I would not hesitate to use it as a daily writer. In fact, I think a little 0.5 mm italic nib would be a lot of fun.

 

This is a good question. Thanks for asking.

[Hennypenny]

Sometimes the nibmeisters have specials on less expensive pens they've modified -- for example, Deb Kinney did some Pelikan Go! pens to a .9 mm cursive italic (google The Pen Connoisseur to find her site) -- they were around $75.

 

Or, have one of your own pens modified -- send it to Deb, Richard Binder, John Mottishaw (and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting). Then it just costs the price of the nib grinding ($45 or so) and you can tell them how fine you want it.

 

There are several good nibmeisters -- I've had several pens modified by Deb and have always been pleased!! It's particularly nice to send in a nib that needs some adjustment anyway in order to write well -- it comes back with all its issues resolved and writing a nice cursive italic!!

 

Hope that helps! HP

[Italicist]

You could do much worse than to try an extra-fine italic nib in a Manuscript pen (see www.calligraphy.co.uk); they're very affordable and those who have them (not I, just yet) seem to like them, for the most part. Although I haven't tried one myself, a letter sent to me was written with such a pen and the maximum width of line that I could find among the characters therein between 0.6 and 0.7 mm.

 

All the best,

CG (no affiliation, etc.)

 

[blueiris]

I have the Lamy Safari/Al-Star 1.1 (factory-made) nib, and I love it, but it's pretty big for my usual handwriting. The line variation shows up best when I write larger than usual.

 

I also have a Lamy Safari with a regular M nib that was custom-ground into a cursive italic, from Pendemonium. The whole thing, new pen and all, cost me about $40 (cost of pen+custom grind charge $15+shipping). It is finer than the factory 1.1 nib, but it's still what I would call a medium nib size. Pendemonium said it's about an 0.9 size (referring to the width of the actual nib, not to the stroke width on the page). I get a lot of line variation with it, and it's one of my favorites. Sometimes Pendemonium offers these types of pens already made in their italic pen selection, but they were happy to make one up for me from their regular Safari stock when I requested it. I think you can buy a Lamy nib by itself (from Swisher Pens and other places) and have Pendemonium re-grind it, too, if you don't want another whole Safari.

 

I have another Safari and a VP with an even finer cursive italic nibs by Pendemonium, probably around 0.7 or 0.6 in nib width. The line variation on these show up only when I write smaller than I normally do (just as the line variation on the 1.1 shows up better when I write larger than I normally do). I don't enjoy them as much for that reason, but someone with smaller handwriting than mine might enjoy them more.

 

Having experimented with this range of sizes, I think that the issue of what "practical" size is for a cursive italic really depends on a person's usual handwriting size.

 

I do have a Visconti pen that I sent to Deb Kinney for a cursive italic grind, and I enjoy that pen, too (it's an 0.8 size). But I found Pendemonium's offerings to be fairly inexpensive if you want to do some experimenting with cheaper pens.

 

Pear Tree Pens might have some customized Lamy and Pelikanos as well (last time I checked, anyway), but I haven't tried any of them myself (though I have enjoyed my other items purchased from Pear Tree) It's another option to consider.

[greencobra]

I have a Binder 0.5mm cursive italic for my VP. It's a wonderful tool and fun to use. It's pretty crisp, depending on how I hold it, I can get a super fine line, more like an extra fine, or a 1mm line (probably wider but I'm guessing.) Line variation while writing is awesome. Are they practical? Sure. All I mostly use are fine nibs, there's not much you can do with them. This little unit I dropped into my Orange VP makes writing fun again and I can still obtain the open letters I desire for my horrible handwriting. It's no toy or novelty nib, as I said, it's a useful tool.

[OldGriz]

I have a Binder .6 and .8 stub nibs on two of my Pelikans and can use them with no problems for daily writing..

My preference is the .6 since I have a somewhat small hand, but the .8 works fine also...

[DrPJM1]

I love my Lamy Safari with its 1.1 italic nib, but I would love to find something even finer.

The pens Richard offers to convert to cursive italic on his site are a little pricy for me. Any cheaper suggestions?

Thanks!!

 

Knitbug

 

Lamy makes a .9 italic

[elena]

I found the Lamy 1.1 italic nib a little too wide for me, but nice and smooth. Pendemonium reground my Safari EF nib into a .5mm cursive italic. Their work was excellent, reasonably priced, and very quick turnaround. I love the slight variation of the line, and it's just a little more fun to write with now.

 

I also have reground work I am waiting on from R. Binder. He is a little pricier, longer turnaround, but I hear his work is worth it.

[artaddict]

I sent my Waterman Phileas to get a Binder 0.7mm cursive italic for $35 plus shipping costs. I love it, my sister-in-law has been trying to steal the pen from me ever since she tried it.

Edited November 20, 2007 by artaddict

[knitbug]

Thanks everyone!

 

I'm glad to hear that some have had good experience with Pendemonium. I think what I might do is send them my two Acme pens. They are my prettiest pens, but probably write (and leak!) the worse of the bunch. I would use them much more if they had a special nib, and for $15 it's well within my budget.

 

I love hearing more good things about Lamys. I love my Palladium Studio, and I just learned from this post that there is a new white one?! Uh-oh.

 

Cheers,

 

Knitbug.

[HDoug]

I put Binder .5mm cursive italics on everything I usually write with (Pels and VPs) and I write much every day. So, yes, very practical for every day use, although it takes a bit more discipline to use than a regular roundy nib. As for how fine they can get, there is a thread here somewhere where Phthalo shows off her .3mm and maybe even a .2mm Binder italic. If I have time, I'll find the thread and post it here.

 

Doug

 

P.S. Found the thread, XXXF and XXXXF Round and Italic nibs. Has pics and writing samples -- a great post and thread.

Edited November 20, 2007 by HDoug

[Bill]

Until three weeks ago, I had italics from .7 to .9mm and stubs from .6 to 1.3mm. At the Ohio Pen Show, Richard ground a 1990's Omas Paragon to a cursive italic based on my normal writing and it ended up as a .6mm (I use a Euro fine or Japanese F-M for general notetaking). It requires more care to use but provides great variation. The "horizontal" line is very thin. It's not the pen for a quick note at a traffic light because the angle has to be right. Keep the nib flat and it writes as smoothly as any of my stubs. It's about perfect for the smaller Rhodia pads that have only enough space for about three words across with a Bexley stub. In that sense, the nib can be called practical. I can see how even a .5mm italic could be satisfying.

 

Bill

[Italicist]

Until three weeks ago, I had italics from .7 to .9mm and stubs from .6 to 1.3mm. At the Ohio Pen Show, Richard ground a 1990's Omas Paragon to a cursive italic based on my normal writing and it ended up as a .6mm (I use a Euro fine or Japanese F-M for general notetaking). . . . I can see how even a .5mm italic could be satisfying.

 

Bill

 

Richard Binder recently ground a Pelikan M200 to a 0.5 mm sharpened italic (between crisp and cursive) for me and I've been VERY impressed with the results. The thin strokes are practically hairlines, so even with such a narrow width there is more than enough variation in the strokes to yield a truly italic script, yet the characters are still small enough overall that I can write comfortably on lined paper.

[blueiris]

In addition to what I've already posted, I note that I think that the Lamy factory 1.1 nib is fairly curved in feel for an "italic" nib. All of my custom-ground cursive italic nibs, whether from Pendemonium or Deb Kinney, are slightly crisper than my factory Lamy 1.1. The horizontal line is thinner, sharper. I do think they handle very well when writing in cursive style, but they do feel more crisp than the 1.1 and not as plush (imagine going from a regular B nib to a regular M or F nib, and you'll feel a difference there, too). I just thought you should know that it's not going to feel exactly the same as the 1.1 because it'll be smaller and likely less round if you ask for a cursive italic. But the line variation is very pretty, I think.

 

You might consider telephoning Pendemonium first and mention what you're considering, and they might help guide you on what finished size you might end up with on your Acme pens. They might or might not be able to do anything about the leaks. They do test the pens for proper flow, so if it's that sort of issue, it might be covered in the job. One of the Safaris I sent them had slightly misaligned tines. Because the tines have to be aligned before grinding, fixing that issue was included in the re-grind charge. Good luck!

[Gojira]

I recently received a Stipula Duetto with the 0.9mm titanium nib. It writes more to a medium line and I suspect that the pens strong flow may have something to do with this. Highly-recommended if you can find one at a good price.

[Edgar Allan Bo]

I recently saw a thread about a Pilot Pluminix here on the Forum and got me few of them - and they are really great! I think the nib is a 0,58 itallic, because there are also Pilot PLUMIX calligraphy pens with nibs in M (0,58) B (0,7) and BB (1,1) and all Pluminix Nibs are the same and marked with M! That's the finest italic you can get, except for those that are made by the nibmeisters!

 

Enybody knows if there are other calligraphy/fountainpens with such fine itallic nibs!?! The finest italic I can get is an 0,8 from ONLINE Calligraphy Pen but it's too broad to be used as a daily writer - the 0,58 on the Pluminix is just perfect for my taste, but they are very hard to find and are allready discontinued... ... and the Plumix is also nowhere to find...

Edited August 16, 2008 by sk2yshine

[Randal6393]

This week I spent a half-hour grinding a Yafa Targa School Pen with a 'M' nib into a fine note-taking italic. Also have a Monte Verdi Black-&-White with a 'M" regrind to italic. Both do a wonderful job of making margin notes in tax workbooks. If you have an inexpensive pen that has a fine or medium nib and doesn't write well enough to trip your trigger, give hand-grinding it a try. Especially if the pen has good -- but not gushing -- ink flow. Break out the magnifying glass and a strong light. Be sure to include a digital camera and take pictures so everyone else can follow along. Instructions on how to grind may be found in Fred Eager's Beautiful Handwriting the Italic Way. Basic idea of how to shape a nib is in Edward Johnston's Writing and Illuminating and Lettering. The pinned section of 'Repair Q & A' has several threads on nib shaping and grinding. My website has a short article on reshaping a nib here.

 

Have fun, best of luck to you.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Randal6393

[ArPharazon]

I hand grind all my pens into stub/cursive italics, and I've got a range of sizes. I think me 'sweet spot' is around a 0.9mm, which is about what I get from most B nibs. I measured a few of my 'finer' ones, and found a few that were 0.6mm. They're definitely different feeling than the wider 0.9 or 1.0mm versions, but still nice to write with and provide nice line variation. They're great for any small writing like filling in forms with small spaces . . . easy to write in the small space provided, but they still provide quite a bit of character in the letters.

 

One of my 0.7mm nibs was done by Pendemonium . . . started life as a Pelikan M600 M nib (this was my first custom nib, before I taught myself to DIY them). I'd recommend them . . . they did a great job, the price was reasonable ($25 at the time), and best of all the turnaround was very quick . . . probably 2 weeks door-to-door.