Hooded nib pens

[Ink Stained Wretch]

A number of semi-hooded designs around today - eg. the Waterman Carene, all of Sheaffer inlaid-nib designs - are trying to do both - giving you a big chunk of metal to look at, while hooding most of the feed to reduce evaporation.

I'd never thought of the Shaeffer inlaid nib fountain pens as having hooded nibs . But I see your point. Maybe that's why the Shaeffer Imperial IV I use all the time works so well.

 

And so of course it sort of has a relation to the "51". A new connection for me there.

 

I'm learning a lot from this thread!

[randyholhut]

Durability seems to be a consideration in this thread. Open nib or hooded, vintage pens (pre-1960) are usually better made and more durable than modern pens. You can see that difference when you look at an original "51" and compare it to the reproduction that Parker made in this decade.

 

The bling factor seems to drive pen purchases. The great thing about a "51" is the understated style it has. It doesn't call attention to itself. It just writes. Ditto for Esterbrooks, a pen that's the epitome of durability and utility. The Sheaffers of the 1940s and 1950s are also models of restraint in terms of style.

 

There are flashier pens, but the aforementioned pens are the ones I like to use every day.

[nhsmitty]

Since February I have purchased a few traditional nib pens, nothing expensive, most enjoyable were clunkers from flea markets. There always seemed to be something missing, or just not right, even though I enjoyed the pens. All the while I read the 51 (hooded nib) talk on FPN and honestly thought how odd the pens looked and figured I would never like such a non-traditional design. I like tradition. The Parker 21 I purchased back in May changed all that even though it took me a week to get it up and running. Even after I got it running it needed some tweaks I wasn't prepared to do with my limited experience. Though the nib was in poor condition, I really liked the way the pen felt and laid a line. My handwriting, while still a mess some days, seemed to benefit. Hmmmm.

 

Inspired by the Parker 21 I left with Richard Binder last weekend at the Raleigh pen show I searched for a Hero 100 and checked out the 51's at the show. Finding 51's was certainly not a problem and I was quite impressed with the prices. Having contact with the many examples at the show made me wonder what ownership of one would be like. Not wanting to pay the price just yet, knowing the 21 repair would need to be paid, and truly unsure if a hooded nib style pen was truly my next venture (even though I was inspired) I held off the urge to go 51.

 

There may have been Hero 100's at the show but I didn't see 'em, and being overwhelmed I neglected to ask. There was always something else to catch my eye as I wondered around. As luck would have it I spotted a lonely Hero box containing a 336 right before I left the show! So I added the pen and a bottle of Noodlers Marine Green to my goodie bag.

 

Today marks a week I have been carrying and using the Hero 336 pen daily. It's nothing to scream about and the nib is a very fine line and a bit scratchy. Yet, the pen as a whole speaks to me. I tend to write a bit smaller with the fine nib but it can handle my normal sized script without problem. The flow is good and the best thing is it can be uncapped for up to 10 minutes (I found out the other day) and goes directly into writing when picked up. Since the writing I do outside of my journal is mostly jotting notes on paper or sticky notes at work I've often not used a fountain pen at work because of the uncapped/drying issue. Knowing I will need a pen again in a few minutes and leaving it uncapped only to find a non-instant start was very unsatisfying. If all hooded nibs allow the pen to be idle, uncapped, for a few minutes without start-up problems, I'm all for it. Maybe my issue with the cap stems from using ball points for years uncapped or clicked open ready for use at an instant, maybe not. Either way I don't have time or patience at work to deal with repetitive capping and uncapping, given the nature of my writing chores.

 

Still, there's the traditional versus hooded nib fight going on in my mind. Geez, I only want to use the "real" thing! I look forward to finding a happy medium in the fountain pen world soon and loving traditional and non-traditional styles for what each has to offer. Sure, I will continue to buy and use traditional nib pens, but a hooded design will likely be my daily user at work. It's more than likely that when I get my 21 back from Richard things will really sway towards the hooded design and a 51 will be in my future before I know it. Oh well, that's a good thing.

 

[shahrincamille]

Since February I have purchased a few traditional nib pens, nothing expensive, most enjoyable were clunkers from flea markets. There always seemed to be something missing, or just not right, even though I enjoyed the pens. All the while I read the 51 (hooded nib) talk on FPN and honestly thought how odd the pens looked and figured I would never like such a non-traditional design. I like tradition. The Parker 21 I purchased back in May changed all that even though it took me a week to get it up and running. Even after I got it running it needed some tweaks I wasn't prepared to do with my limited experience. Though the nib was in poor condition, I really liked the way the pen felt and laid a line. My handwriting, while still a mess some days, seemed to benefit. Hmmmm.

 

Inspired by the Parker 21 I left with Richard Binder last weekend at the Raleigh pen show I searched for a Hero 100 and checked out the 51's at the show. Finding 51's was certainly not a problem and I was quite impressed with the prices. Having contact with the many examples at the show made me wonder what ownership of one would be like. Not wanting to pay the price just yet, knowing the 21 repair would need to be paid, and truly unsure if a hooded nib style pen was truly my next venture (even though I was inspired) I held off the urge to go 51.

 

There may have been Hero 100's at the show but I didn't see 'em, and being overwhelmed I neglected to ask. There was always something else to catch my eye as I wondered around. As luck would have it I spotted a lonely Hero box containing a 336 right before I left the show! So I added the pen and a bottle of Noodlers Marine Green to my goodie bag.

 

Today marks a week I have been carrying and using the Hero 336 pen daily. It's nothing to scream about and the nib is a very fine line and a bit scratchy. Yet, the pen as a whole speaks to me. I tend to write a bit smaller with the fine nib but it can handle my normal sized script without problem. The flow is good and the best thing is it can be uncapped for up to 10 minutes (I found out the other day) and goes directly into writing when picked up. Since the writing I do outside of my journal is mostly jotting notes on paper or sticky notes at work I've often not used a fountain pen at work because of the uncapped/drying issue. Knowing I will need a pen again in a few minutes and leaving it uncapped only to find a non-instant start was very unsatisfying. If all hooded nibs allow the pen to be idle, uncapped, for a few minutes without start-up problems, I'm all for it. Maybe my issue with the cap stems from using ball points for years uncapped or clicked open ready for use at an instant, maybe not. Either way I don't have time or patience at work to deal with repetitive capping and uncapping, given the nature of my writing chores.

 

Still, there's the traditional versus hooded nib fight going on in my mind. Geez, I only want to use the "real" thing! I look forward to finding a happy medium in the fountain pen world soon and loving traditional and non-traditional styles for what each has to offer. Sure, I will continue to buy and use traditional nib pens, but a hooded design will likely be my daily user at work. It's more than likely that when I get my 21 back from Richard things will really sway towards the hooded design and a 51 will be in my future before I know it. Oh well, that's a good thing.

 

Have you considered Pilot's Vanishing Point for your daily use instead?

 

At least there is no risk of losing the cap, yet with the convenience of a click-style ballpen.

 

 

* Sorry for the OT *

 

 

Shahrin

[artaddict]

You left one out. Some of us don't like the looks of a hooded nib. I have three Parker 21s and they just don't sing to me; something wrong with the proportions. They write well, they feel good in my hand and they are well-behaved if I perform their storage ritual properly, but I can't stand the sight of 'em.

 

Paddler

 

Really? I kinda like how the Parker 21 looks. Nice interesting shape.

 

 

[MYU]

ISW, repair that 51! Forget waiting for the Lotto--I'll have to bet it won't cost you too much, unless the nib is useless. Either way, you can see if you like it... if you don't then you can recoup your money by selling it. As you might have noticed, they do tend to get sold on FPN fairly easily.

 

The Hero 100 is not bad, but it's definitely not a Parker 51. It's a cheap knock off, so, you can use it in situations where the risk of loss is higher than usual and you won't be bothered if the pen disappears. But I'd rather just have a "user grade" Parker 51 for that purpose, instead of a new Hero 100.

[Dan Carmell]

I thought it might add some flavor to this discussion to have a look at some non-Parker hooded nibs, so here are the ones I have at hand:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/dcarmell/hoodies.jpg

From left to right: Vis-Pen VacFill (not a vac filler, but one of dozens of Italian pens that followed the 51/88 model); Aurora 88; Eversharp Fifth Avenue; Lamy 2000; Pelikan P-1; Pelikan M 30 (semi-hooded by my definition); Waterman Taperite; Hero 100 (an early version in 12K gold-fill--second thoughts on the 100, Gary?); Unknown Chinese capillary filler.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/dcarmell/hoodedpens.jpg

A few little notes: the Pelikan P-1 is the only one of these models with a screw cap. Interestingly, both the Italian Vis-Pen and several of my hooded Hero and Wing Sung pens have arrow clips--not much doubt about who they were imitating!

 

And that Chinese capillary filler? The makers of this pen were so confident in their capillary filler that they built it into a sealed barrel! The only way to fill it is via the nib and no way at all to flush it. I bought it used out of Hong Kong and it had clearly been used before. I've filled and used it twice without problems.

 

Dan

[sleek_lover]

I just wandered down through the thread andl, aside from the issue of drying out/evaporation, one of the issues seemed to be flex. This issue seems to dominate a lot of threads and I suppose I am again a bit of a Philistine...but having tried to "do" a flexxy nib for day-in-day-our writing---hey, give me a nail every time.

 

That may be the allure of the SLEEKS to me...lack of flex...or perception of flex. Conicals as well. The pens just lay down a line of ink pretty much where I tell it to and that be that...

 

If flex is important, or if a big nib is important, the a TRAD pen is gonna be necessary. Otherwise, either hooded or trad nib would work...

 

Which brings up a collateral point...

 

For the SLEEK lovers in the crowd...and I may turn this into a poll...

 

If a new hooded nibbed pen came out, and the price were reasonable...as YOU define reasonable...would you buy it? For instance...If Retro 51 or Leveiger did a hooded pen...for $10 more than a TRAD 88 or True Writer...???

 

Bill

[sleek_lover]

I thought it might add some flavor to this discussion to have a look at some non-Parker hooded nibs, so here are the ones I have at hand:

From left to right: Vis-Pen VacFill (not a vac filler, but one of dozens of Italian pens that followed the 51/88 model); Aurora 88; Eversharp Fifth Avenue; Lamy 2000; Pelikan P-1; Pelikan M 30 (semi-hooded by my definition); Waterman Taperite; Hero 100 (an early version in 12K gold-fill--second thoughts on the 100, Gary?); Unknown Chinese capillary filler.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/dcarmell/hoodedpens.jpg

A few little notes: the Pelikan P-1 is the only one of these models with a screw cap. Interestingly, both the Italian Vis-Pen and several of my hooded Hero and Wing Sung pens have arrow clips--not much doubt about who they were imitating!

 

And that Chinese capillary filler? The makers of this pen were so confident in their capillary filler that they built it into a sealed barrel! The only way to fill it is via the nib and no way at all to flush it. I bought it used out of Hong Kong and it had clearly been used before. I've filled and used it twice without problems.

 

Dan

 

Dan...gorgeous presentation and great pens...

 

Bill

[MYU]

Nice photos there, Dan! And yes, you're right... I definitely need to qualify my comment about the Hero. I was thinking more of the Hero 616. The Hero 100, fully gold clad like a Parker 61 or 75, looks like a beautiful pen. I do remember you saying how the quality is very close to Parker on those.

 

How do you like the Aurora 88? Nice big ink window--no mysteries there.

[nhsmitty]

Have you considered Pilot's Vanishing Point for your daily use instead?

 

 

Shahrin

 

Actually bought a Vanishing Point for my Girlfriend at the pen show. Great pen! I haven't been using it this week since it's "her" pen but it's been idle most of the week so I'm waiting to see what happens.

 

I'd hate to have to rescue the VP and start using it.

[meanwhile]

ISW, repair that 51! Forget waiting for the Lotto--I'll have to bet it won't cost you too much, unless the nib is useless. Either way, you can see if you like it... if you don't then you can recoup your money by selling it. As you might have noticed, they do tend to get sold on FPN fairly easily.

 

The Hero 100 is not bad, but it's definitely not a Parker 51. It's a cheap knock off, so, you can use it in situations where the risk of loss is higher than usual and you won't be bothered if the pen disappears. But I'd rather just have a "user grade" Parker 51 for that purpose, instead of a new Hero 100.

 

I'll have to disagree somewhat on the 100: mine writes just as well as a 51 and having read a detailed "autopsy" I don't see where the design is inferior - in fact there might even be a minor improvement or two in construction.

 

Where the 100 falls down, perhaps, is that Hero quality might be variable. And I have heard that production standards have fallen in recent years. (My pen is a NOS rolled gold model with a stunning "waves" pattern.)

 

[meanwhile]

For the SLEEK lovers in the crowd...and I may turn this into a poll...

 

If a new hooded nibbed pen came out, and the price were reasonable...as YOU define reasonable...would you buy it? For instance...If Retro 51 or Leveiger did a hooded pen...for $10 more than a TRAD 88 or True Writer...???

 

I'd have bought an L2K as my first or second pen if it wasn't for the fact that I'm one of the people who finds the cap retaining pins stick annoyingly in their grip.

 

The people I would like to see make a hooded model are Pilot, using the filler and translucent body of the 823. Ideally with the user replaceable nib of the Lamy 27, classic ellipse shape, and, oh, the clip of the PFM.

[thibaulthalpern]

You left one out. Some of us don't like the looks of a hooded nib. I have three Parker 21s and they just don't sing to me; something wrong with the proportions. They write well, they feel good in my hand and they are well-behaved if I perform their storage ritual properly, but I can't stand the sight of 'em.

 

Paddler

 

I totally agree. The hood makes me think of retro. Think of cars several decades back with the "hooded" back tyres. You know, the ones where part of the tyre is covered with a panel. The current Honda hybrid (I forgot the name; it's the first Honda hybrid and it's very small) has its back wheels "hooded". I think the hood is UGLY!

[georges zaslavsky]

Because the nibs were definitely not offering the same level of smoothness than an open nib and because the nib adjustments on these were specific and not easy to do.

Edited August 10, 2008 by georges zaslavsky

[adallak]

Having a hood over the nib of a pen seems to be an obvious advantage - it makes the pen much more resistant to drying out while "idling", pampers temperamental inks, and may help reduce ink loss through evapaoration, making pens write longer on the same amount of ink.

 

So why are the Lamy 2K and a few Parker 51 clones the only hooded nib design in current production? Even the modern Aurora 88 only trades on the name of its illustrious hooded ancestor.

 

My theories:

 

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

 

2. More optimistically, improved feed design and better inks make hooding less desireable than it used to be. It's still a good thing, but pens can manage much better without it than they could in say, 1955.

 

3. Hooded designs have higher manufacturing costs and can't role off a standard production line.

 

4. The inlaid nib provides many of the benefits of hooded nib while providing more visible bling, so "technical" pens like the Pilot Falcon and Waterman Edson that might have been candidates for hooding have gone this route instead.

 

But I'd put my money on 1. as the dominating factor.

Very good points. I would add one more consideration which might be taken into account. Some people including myself really like a clear view of the point where a writing instrument meets the paper. Big open nibs provide with a better view compared with those with fully hooded nibs like the "51" .

Edited November 23, 2008 by adallak

[nkk]

ISW, repair that 51! Forget waiting for the Lotto--I'll have to bet it won't cost you too much, unless the nib is useless. Either way, you can see if you like it... if you don't then you can recoup your money by selling it. As you might have noticed, they do tend to get sold on FPN fairly easily.

 

The Hero 100 is not bad, but it's definitely not a Parker 51. It's a cheap knock off, so, you can use it in situations where the risk of loss is higher than usual and you won't be bothered if the pen disappears. But I'd rather just have a "user grade" Parker 51 for that purpose, instead of a new Hero 100.

 

Or, you know, there are situations when you do not want to risk even the most meat up P51 (labs where pens can be dissolved/melted/have molten brass pured on them). The brass happeend to my friends pen (a bic, so no worries), and it was annoying if only becuase it meant we had to redo our brass for the lab.

 

On a subject acutally related to the OP's question, I think hooded nibs are fine. I have no inclination towards or against them, and do use a P51 in class sometimes to take notes. I do like that it does not dry, but even my Sapporo does not have that problem too often.

 

-nkk

[Silvermink]

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

 

I agree with you that this is probably the biggest factor. A hooded nib just doesn't have the same "bling factor".

 

[Ink Stained Wretch]

ISW, repair that 51! Forget waiting for the Lotto--I'll have to bet it won't cost you too much, unless the nib is useless. Either way, you can see if you like it... if you don't then you can recoup your money by selling it. As you might have noticed, they do tend to get sold on FPN fairly easily.

Well, I guess that my replying late is better than never replying! I have since gotten a Parker "51" desk pen. To my surprise it will suck up water. I'm currently doing the repeated flushing thing with it. Maybe after a month of this it'll get all of that old, dried ink out of it and I'll be able to test it out. I had thought that it was another non-working "51" but unless something's wrong with it that's not obvious I think I may have a functioning "51" to write with some time soon.

 

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

I agree with you that this is probably the biggest factor. A hooded nib just doesn't have the same "bling factor".

This is probably true, and good. It keeps the prices from getting astronomical.

[richardandtracy]

My preference in everything manufactured, except houses, is for the Bauhaus style.

 

Hooded nib pens are an expression of the Bauhaus style.

2CV's are the embodiment of the style in cars.

 

Just one reason why I like both.

 

Regards

 

Richard.