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Pelikan With A "c"


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#1 AlexS

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 18:28

Some little time ago I bought a black 140 from ebay.  It has the following marking around the barrel next to the blind cap.

 

GUNTHER WAGNER GERMANY PELICAN

 

No other markings on either barrel or cap.

 

The nib is marked:

 

   Pelikan

     585

14 KARAT

     EF

 

Was this perhaps an export model?

 

I would greatly appreciate any information.

 

Thanks,

 

Alex

 



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#2 piscov

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 19:12

Hi Alex

Pelican was used for the Uk market.
I do not know why.

I have a 100N with Pelican engraved in the top cap.

Edited by piscov, 03 June 2018 - 19:25.

Best regards
Vasco

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#3 sargetalon

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 19:29

I haven't come across that one.  Do you happen to have any pics handy?


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#4 piscov

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 20:58

I'll send you tomorrow. I don't have good ligth now. I purchased mine in UK actually.

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#5 DougS

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:49

I've gotten a couple 140s like that, also a 400.

 

Here's one of mine. Also, there is no logo on the top cap -- it's plain.

 

fpn_1528080278__pelican_140.jpg



#6 piscov

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:38

Here is mine has promised
20180604_122757.jpg

Best regards
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#7 dnic

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 14:35

similar on my Pelikan 500 tortoise.

 

 

Pelikan-500-tortoise-7.jpg


Edited by dnic, 04 June 2018 - 14:36.


#8 piscov

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 14:38

So we all agree it was for the UK market?

I do not have a document to prove it, if anyone has any more information it would be great to put it in Dominic's or/and on Sargetalon's website 


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#9 dnic

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 14:46

That is, what I was told, but I have no evidence for this. Would be great to have, maybe a catalogue or leaflet?!

Dominic



#10 joss

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 19:42

In his book "Pelikan: The Brand" Detmar Schäfer explains to some extent the history of this matter (eg from page 92 onwards) and this is a brief summary:

 

In the early days, the Pelikan company relied more on the pictorial 'pelican with chicks' logo for branding than to the word 'pelikan' itself. Therefore, for advertisements in the English-speaking markets and also in Spain, the word pelikan was simply translated into English, being "Pelican". Likewise, for all French-speaking markets, pelikan was translated into French, being "Pélican". The French word Pélican was phased out in advertisements already in the early 1920s.

 

At the end of the 1940s, the company decided to reduce the importance of the logo in favour of the word mark "Pelikan". The word "Pelikan" became more important as a graphical element of its own and therefore the English word "Pelican" was phased out from advertisements.

 

The book mentions that the word "Pelican" survived until the 1940s in advertisements but it appears on pens until the early 1950s, as the "Pelican" imprint is still found on Pelikan 140 and 400 pens.

 

Here is a low resolution copy of a 1937 leaflet with the word Pelican:

 

fpn_1528140682__pelc.jpg


Edited by joss, 04 June 2018 - 19:47.


#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 21:09

Could be for the English-Commonwealth market, all my '50--65 Pelikans are that and not Pelican.


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#12 Barutti

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 15:12

Hello, I have Pelikan 100N with imprint “Pelican” on cap top too,which was delivered to me from S.Africa country, which after ww2 was controlled by UK.So it fits argumentation that “c” was pointed to UK commonwealth markets.
Barutti.

#13 AoKiu

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:06

Here is my PELICAN :D

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Ubi bene, ibi patria.

#14 inkstainedruth

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 16:07

Interesting.  I'm now going to have to look at my 1950s era 400 and see what *it* says on it.  

I've already had the problem of writing "Pelikan" vs. "Pelican" depending on context: spelled with the K means the pen brand; with the C means the SCA Order of the Pelican"; or (lower case C) the actual bird or the heraldic depiction thereof -- which is generally like the pen logo (a pelican "in its piety" -- which means a bird in its nest, with chicks, and piercing its breast to feed the chicks with its own blood, and which is a medieval religious idea of what the birds did).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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#15 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 02:27

One has to watch out for the shenanigans of heralds... With the right distortion of language, one can produce real atrocities:

 

vert, a unicorn rampant argent inverted, on a chief of the first, three roundels 1,2 of the second.

{It's a unicorn standing on its head juggling three balls with its hind legs; something I created in response to a question in the SCA room at a gaming convention -- someone had asked if one could have a juggling unicorn on their arms, and the reply was "if it can be described using regular heraldic language"}

 

quarterly argent and azure, a wolf rampant proper, langued gules, bearing a scroll proper within its mouth

{An old AD&D character -- Wulfraed (derived from wolf counsel) -- it's a dog bringing in the newspaper :P )


Edited by BaronWulfraed, 07 November 2018 - 02:28.


#16 Christopher Godfrey

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 20:42

Hello, I have Pelikan 100N with imprint “Pelican” on cap top too,which was delivered to me from S.Africa country, which after ww2 was controlled by UK.So it fits argumentation that “c” was pointed to UK commonwealth markets.
Barutti.

 

Excuse me for hi-jacking this thread; but, Barutti, you obviously need to read up on SA history... ;^)



#17 inkstainedruth

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 03:32

One has to watch out for the shenanigans of heralds... With the right distortion of language, one can produce real atrocities:

 

vert, a unicorn rampant argent inverted, on a chief of the first, three roundels 1,2 of the second.

{It's a unicorn standing on its head juggling three balls with its hind legs; something I created in response to a question in the SCA room at a gaming convention -- someone had asked if one could have a juggling unicorn on their arms, and the reply was "if it can be described using regular heraldic language"}

 

quarterly argent and azure, a wolf rampant proper, langued gules, bearing a scroll proper within its mouth

{An old AD&D character -- Wulfraed (derived from wolf counsel) -- it's a dog bringing in the newspaper :P )

 

Yeah, but you wouldn't be allowed to do half the stuff in the SCA you're saying for the first blazon.

You're not allow to invert critters, and if I'm reading *your* blazon correctly, you have the chief the same tincture as the field (so you might as well not have it there at all...) -- I'm betting that the roundels are "in chief" -- not "on a chief".  Plus, we don't do the "of the second" style blazon --

too convoluted.  So a more concise (and more accurate) blazon (although still not allowed) would be "Vert, a unicorn rampant inverted, in chief three plates 1 and 2).  (A planet

Come to think, why invert the poor beastie at all?  In which case the plates could be in dexter chief (but still in the 1 and 2 arrangement, so not horrible style but not great).  

As for the other one, is the scroll open or rolled?  And would you even see the tongue with the wolf's mouth full?  (Oh, and current practice is that detailing like arming and languing tinctures are considered artistic froufrou and not blazoned.) 

Ask me how I know all this.  Uh, no,  maybe don't.  I had to redraw a badge last week that had two dances (two bars dancetty) and in base a wagon wheel....  And another badge which had a bordure with alternating lit candlesticks and lit oil lamps on it....  :wacko: (turned out that one was for a guy I know, whose son and daughter-in-law camp with us at Pennsic).  And I had to get them drawn before I went to OPS, because I had no guarantees I'd have access to scanners and printers at the place I was staying, once the drawings were done...

Sigh....

Back on topic.  Took a look at my 400 and it's definitely Pelikan with a K....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

#18 BaronWulfraed

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 16:36

 

Yeah, but you wouldn't be allowed to do half the stuff in the SCA you're saying for the first blazon.

You're not allow to invert critters, and if I'm reading *your* blazon correctly, you have the chief the same tincture as the field (so you might as well not have it there at all...) -- I'm betting that the roundels are "in chief" -- not "on a chief".  Plus, we don't do the "of the second" style blazon --

 

 

Yeah -- I did reverse the first/second usage... It's been many decades since I "created" that abomination as an exercise. The intent was a "grassy" field with a silver "sky". It was done purely as a response to a question about a "juggling unicorn" that came up in a gaming convention.



#19 inkstainedruth

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:05

 

Yeah -- I did reverse the first/second usage... It's been many decades since I "created" that abomination as an exercise. The intent was a "grassy" field with a silver "sky". It was done purely as a response to a question about a "juggling unicorn" that came up in a gaming convention.

 

Well I suppose you could put it on an April Fool's LoI some year....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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