Iron Gall Inks...

[stevekolt]

I searched for an index/listing of iron gall inks and came up blank. I'm pretty new to fountain pens, and I've read that these types of inks can damage the pens if left in the pen for a time. I have 2 Pilot Vanishing Points, a Pilot Prera, a Montblanc Meisterstruck 146 with a fine nib on order, as well as a Lamy 2000 with an EF nib on the way. I want to take care of this budding collection, and at this point don't see myself emptying and cleaning each pen after each use. Is there any place I can go to, or list I can search to make sure the inks I am using won't have this issue? I was going to order Montblanc Midnight Blue until I ran into this issue. Any help would be seriously appreciated.

[alvinlum]

hmm, i don't think mont blanc midnight blue is that "dangerous". Considering myself being quite lazy when it comes to pen hygiene and once left MB midnightblue in my sailor sapporo over...couple of weeks and it didnt stain the converter or leave any residue in the ink feed at all.

 

Can't say for any other iron gall inks though.

[The Good Captain]

I've R&K Salix, Scabiosa; Montblanc Midnight Blue and Lamy Blue-Black, each in a different pen, at the moment. I tend to keep them matched to their own pen, as it were but that's just me. As long as I flush every three fills or so - of the same ink of course - I don't see any problems.

There are a number of posts on here which go into the proper cleaning procedures when starting out to use an IG in a pen or when changing back to an 'ordinary' ink afterwards. Certainly Sandy S1 and Daniel Coffey have supplied such information.

[DanielCoffey]

Have a look at this post from two weeks ago. It would have come up on any search of "iron gall" in this forum...

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/241679-iron-gall-inks/

 

This thread from three weeks ago is about using iron gall in a vintage pen and also came up on the first page of search results....

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/241339-care-when-using-modern-iron-gall-inks-like-r-k-salix-or-registrars-in-lever-and-button-fillers/

 

I hope that helps.

[koa]

It is often recommended to search FPN with Google like this (link) rather than the in house search function. Seems to work better, and you will find lots of discussion of iron gall inks. The Montblanc ink is officially approved by MB, so you really can't go wrong using it in a MB!

[stevekolt]

Thanks for all the replies folks. The Google search page has now been bookmarked. Koa, nice piece of wood for your avatar. I'm currently selling a 2010 Taylor Fall Limited edition in Koa...talk about a coincidence.

 

So using MB midnight blue ink and leaving my MB 146 inked with it will do it no harm?

[The Good Captain]

Thanks for all the replies folks. The Google search page has now been bookmarked. Koa, nice piece of wood for your avatar. I'm currently selling a 2010 Taylor Fall Limited edition in Koa...talk about a coincidence.

 

So using MB midnight blue ink and leaving my MB 146 inked with it will do it no harm?

Not if you follow the simple procedures mentioned or referred to. I have it in a couple of pens at present: a Pelikan M800 and Omas Paragon Art Deco. Both piston-fillers and both perfectly happy. I do use them every day but not for a whole lot of writing but things seem to be running smoothly.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

IMHO pen cleaning is part & parcel of keeping pens in good working order, ensuring their long-term survival, and having the pleasure to use pretty much any ink in any pen with no worries.

 

Rather than eliminating inks by constituents or behaviour, (an endless task), I propose a simple approach: Those who are reluctant to maintain their pens may well consider using Washable inks exclusively.

 

I have little doubt that many people have used Washable inks in their pens for yonks with nary a thought of pen maintenance or switching inks. Indeed, I was pleased as Punch to use one pen and one ink for several years before succumbing to The Vortex. (It was the gift of a Parker Duofold & their Penman Sapphire that got me hooked, followed by a MB149 with MBBlBk which was the event horizon.)

 

For very good Washable inks with a proven track record, I'll suggest Lamy Blue, Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue & Waterman Serenity (ex Florida Blue).

 

Also consider the new Scribal Work Shop 'Bunny' inks, http://scribalworkshop.com/bunnyink.

 

Enjoy!!

 

Bye,

S1

 

___ ___

My Reviews:

• Lamy Blue http://www.fountainp...ost__p__2357230
• Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue http://www.fountainp...001-royal-blue/
• Waterman Florida Blue http://www.fountainp...15#entry1869915

Edited March 24, 2013 by Sandy1

[RudyR]

I am curious, where are you getting this information that Iron Galls Inks are dangerous to pens? You speak with certainty and I would like to know your source of information. It obviously is misleading but fortunately you took your search for knowledge to our more experienced people. It is a shame that people are being directed away from a wonderful and very useful ink.

[stevekolt]

Rudy R,

 

From Wikipedia:

Fountain pens

 

"Traditional iron gall inks intended for dip pens are not suitable for fountain pens as they will corrode the pen (a phenomenon known as flash corrosion) and destroy the functionality of the fountain pen.

Instead, modern surrogate iron gall formulas such as blue-black bottled inks by Lamy, Montblanc, Chesterfield's Archival Vaultor, Diamine Registrar's Ink, Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink, Gutenberg Urkundentinte G10 Schwarz (certificate ink G10 black) or Rohrer & Klingner "Salix" and "Scabiosa" inks are offered for fountain pens. These modern iron gall inks contain a small amount of ferro gallic compounds, but are gentler for the inside of a fountain pen, but can still be corrosive if left in the pen for a long period. To avoid corrosion on delicate metal parts and ink clogging a more thorough than usual cleaning regime - which requires the ink to be flushed out regularly with water - is sometimes advised by manufacturers or resellers. The color dye in these modern formulas functions as a temporary colorant to make these inks clearly visible whilst writing. The ferro gallic compounds through a gradual oxidation process causes an observable gradual color change to gray/black whilst these inks completely dry and makes the writing waterproof."

 

From Richard's Pens:

 

"Of more concern to you, as a fountain pen user, is that it is rather acidic: it can corrode metal pen parts such as steel nibs and cartridge nipples, and plated trim rings — every part that comes in contact with it. Only gold alloys are safe from its ravages; if your pen features a gold nib and has no other metal parts that are continually exposed to the ink (such as a metal cartridge nipple), you can use iron gall inks such as Montblanc Blue-Black and Diamine Registrar’s ink with impunity."

 

 

Just wanting to take care of the pens in my limited (but sure to be growing) collection...

[kwzi]

Then Wikipedia and Richard Binder are not exact in this matter - in this exact matter flash corrosion is not connected with acidity of ink. Simple iron significantly starts to corrode at pH less than 4, but even medieval iron gall inks rarely had pH lower than 5, and most of them around 6.

You can see on this site Iron corrosion that there is a plateau between ph 4 and 10, so why iron gall ink which pH is almost neutral should corrode iron? Many inks based on aniline dyes have ph around 4 or even lower.

Answer is quite complex and I would need at least two pages to even touch the matter - there is a problem with various redox reaction occuring on surface of metal and its close vicinity, and this is true that bad ink may eat up iron in relatively short time.

But in short, everything starts with the resources used to prepare the ink, especially kind of iron salt and its purity with relation to tannic or gallic acid. If everything is made with proper care, than redox reactions causing "flash corrosion" are never going to occur. Another matter is that modern steel alloys creates passive layer on surface which prevents that kind of redox corrosion, so even so corrosion is less likely to occur than 100 years ago.

 

So do not worry to much about it, most modern IG inks are more fountain pen friendly than some dye based inks...

Another thing is that if ink rapidly oxidise to black, in matter of minutes or seconds than this is not well made ink. Pure iron gall ink, without dye, should oxidise on paper to dull violet or dull brown - exact color depends on composition of ink and kind of paper, first significant color change should occur in 3-5 minutes, oxidation to black of undyed ink is rare and suspicious if takes place in less than few days, even then a scent of brown or violet should be clearly visible. Inks which rapidly turn black are not the best ones, but the worst ones - they have excess of iron ions and are prone to rapid oxidazation both in solution and on paper, the best inks if we are interested in archival kind of ink are those which oxidise very slowly, and never to black. Ink which have iron content 0,3 g per 100 ml may posses much higher archival potential than that with 0,9 g per 100 ml - correct stabilization and distrubution of iron complexes is much more crucial than simple content of iron ions.

Edited March 25, 2013 by kwzi

[tinta]

In my limited experience, R&K Salix & Scabiosa, Akkerman #10, MB Midnight Blue or Diamine's Registrars inks have not caused my pens any harm.

I always have at least one of these inks in my regular rotation. In fact, these iron-galls (except for Scabiosa) are my go-to blue/black inks.

 

Thorough pen hygiene should eliminate any "potential" problems (corrosion, clogging).

"Sandy1" on the FPN has posted an extensive cleaning regimen for pens using ferro-gallic inks.

It's worth a good look.

With today's iron-gall fountain pen inks inks, there is nothing to fear.

Edited March 25, 2013 by tinta

[SeeksAdvice]

I've used Salix with no real problems in both gold and stainless nibbed pens. Only issue that I've seen is maybe some precip after a while.

[DanielCoffey]

I agree - every couple of fills I just do a cold water flush before refilling and the pen works beautifully with what I must admit is fairly low amount of actual use. it occasionally burps up a small piece of iron precipitate when I rinse it but that is why I am rinsing it.

[Vshin]

I have been using R&K Scabiosa in the same Lamy Safari for a year without cleanining or flushing it even once. Sometimes I leave the ink sitting in the pen for months between refils. It's still working fine for now.