Concerns With Herbin 1670 Red Ink....

[djmaher]

Hello all...

 

Let me start by saying I've run this subject past the Admins. My intention is certainly not to "bash" any ink, but what I will say actually happened, and I will also be the 1st to admit I don't have years of experience with fountain pens and inks.

 

I won't tell the whole story here. If you really need to know it, please PM me. I'm looking for advice, opinions and whatever other discussion belongs here. Some basic answers will do.

 

I've used said ink in 4 pens now. Three about a year and a half ago. The other just a few weeks ago. (A Safari, a Vista, a P-51 and a M400). In each case, I inked the pens (not all at once, one at a time...), wrote with them for a few days, and set the pens down for a couple of days (perhaps up to a week).

 

In each case, upon uncapping the pens, after they have set for a bit, there was dried crusty-crunchies, as I call them, all around the nib areas, and base of the nibs where the nib meets the pen bodies. There wasn't just a tiny amount. There was a surprising large quantity. The P-51 was the worst, then the M-400, then the Lamys.

 

I'm no expert, but this doesn't seem right. I know ink leaks. I know it can make a mess sometimes. I'm certain there are other stories of inks doing this. I know of some of the "problems" with the ink precipitating out in pens, and even some staining. The crunchy stuff, just seems wrong to me. Maybe it seems like I'm overreacting a bit, but it does seem odd to uncap a pen, and have "stuff" fall out, after only a few days.

 

I imagine it wont hurt the pens. I've been told as much. I've also been told that's the "nature" of some inks, and that I kinda have to put up with things like this sometimes. Perhaps I just don't want to fuss, when it comes to fountain pens. (which is odd, of course, because I really like El-Lawrence, and we all know what that's like )I actually really love the red color.

 

So, my sad story is absolutely NOT a bash of the ink, but more of what I consider a serious concern about what the ink seems to be doing in my pens. Is this concern just unrealistic? Maybe I just don't have enough experience with inks...

 

I have 3 other bottles of Herbin. No trouble there at all. I now have a whole unused bottle, and a nearly full second bottle, of this ink, and I really don't want to use it, primarily because of the experience I've had with it, despite the fact I really like the color... Like it or not, part of writing with fountain pens IS the experience, the whole experience.. How the ink goes in the pen, how the pen places the ink on the paper, what the ink does once it gets there....

 

What say ye all????

 

Dave

 

 

I have emailed Herbin with my concerns, and have received a reply....

[mhosea]

Like this?

 

Or this?

Edited October 5, 2012 by mhosea

[JonSzanto]

It seemed to me that virtually every thread in the ink reviews regarding 1670 touched on this problem, and all the related flow problems, etc. I got a sample of this ink when it was first introduced, and tried it at various times with various pens. I determined that, as magnificent of an ink that it was - and I really, really like it on paper - the problems weren't worth it for me.

 

Did you, by any chance, do any research here on FPN before deciding to purchase/use the ink? If no, I can understand. If yes, it surprises me that you have this reaction, because you are certainly not the first, by a long shot.

[faustulus]

I have noticed this on other inks that include a red dye (I first experienced it in Private Reserve Dakota Red). As far as I can tell it is something in the dye itself that causes it and it isn't limited to one manufacturer. I have seen it in Diamine, J. Herbin, Private Reserve and have heard of it in Noodlers and others.

[djmaher]

Yes,

 

Exactly like this...

 

If I had been thinking, I'd of posted photos, if I had but takens a few..

 

Dave

 

Like this?

 

Or this?

[djmaher]

No, I did not look before I leaped...

 

I saw it was available, and since I had had good experiences with other Herbins, I just went for it..

 

Dave

 

It seemed to me that virtually every thread in the ink reviews regarding 1670 touched on this problem, and all the related flow problems, etc. I got a sample of this ink when it was first introduced, and tried it at various times with various pens. I determined that, as magnificent of an ink that it was - and I really, really like it on paper - the problems weren't worth it for me.

 

Did you, by any chance, do any research here on FPN before deciding to purchase/use the ink? If no, I can understand. If yes, it surprises me that you have this reaction, because you are certainly not the first, by a long shot.

[JonSzanto]

No, I did not look before I leaped...

Well, hey, that's understandable! It is one damn beautiful ink.

 

So, after those initial tests, I decided that I wouldn't go for a bottle (I was using a sample I got from the Goulet's) and then it went into it's first 'outage'. I had pretty much thought about not going for it anymore, but recently I realized I've got one or two 'extra' Esterbrook dip pens, and now I think I'll just get a bottle and dedicate one pen to it. I can write a paragraph or two per dip, and the pen will be easy to clean out after each use. I'll be able to avoid the problems, and with something like a 9314-M nib I can do some nice shading.

 

If' you've got the whole bottle, and a pen that has a pretty generous feed, you could probably just dip when you want to use the ink. Unless you wanted to use it all the time for a lot of writing. In that case, I have no clue as to how to make Rouge Hematite behave itself.

 

Best of luck!

[Laura N]

Yes,

 

Exactly like this...

 

If I had been thinking, I'd of posted photos, if I had but takens a few..

 

Dave

 

Like this?

 

Or this?

 

Those are Diamine inks. This problem seems to happen with many brands, with inks in the orange-red color range.

 

I'm sure you've researched enough to discover that the red 1670 ink contains particles of gold. It's a different type of ink and requires some adaptability. When I use it, which is not often, I am mindful of its high maintenance nature. I put it in a cheaper pen with good flow. I ink it up for a few days and then clean out the pen. And for what it's worth, I haven't had a problem. There are a lot of high maintenance inks, most with less publicity about their issues. And none that I know of with a warning like J. Herbin puts on the bottle. Like all high maintenance inks, you have to decide whether it's worth the extra effort.

 

You might prefer the J. Herbin 1670 Blue Ocean that just came out. It has the same great bottle and packaging but is a conventional ink that cleans up easily. It's also a very nice blue.

[mhosea]

Those are Diamine inks. This problem seems to happen with many brands, with inks in the orange-red color range.

 

Yes, the second thread is about Diamine Ancient Copper, but the nib picture in that thread was of R&K Helianthus. This just reinforces the point that growing crystals on the nib and feed is not something that only one ink, and not only one brand of ink, does. But there must be other factors in play because not everyone sees it.

[iveyman]

I have noticed this on other inks that include a red dye (I first experienced it in Private Reserve Dakota Red). As far as I can tell it is something in the dye itself that causes it and it isn't limited to one manufacturer. I have seen it in Diamine, J. Herbin, Private Reserve and have heard of it in Noodlers and others.

 

I am using Montblanc's Alfred Hitchcock red ink and I have not experienced anything like this. Touch wood.

[adyf]

I have emailed Herbin with my concerns, and have received a reply....

 

What did they say?

 

Edited to add: It's the not best behaved ink out there by any means but I'm willing to forgive it due to the unique red/orange/green/gold hue. I have it in an Esterbrook J right now and sometimes it's a slow starter. Best results I've had were with a Sheaffer Snorkel.

Edited October 6, 2012 by adyf

[senzen]

I've had the same experience with this ink; because I grow exasperated very quickly I was afraid of what I would do to my pens rather than what the ink might do to them. I was just about ready to give up, even looking for a replacement red, when I came upon the solution for flow; not rocket science, more of a test of patience: (a) this is a high maintenance ink, it does require the pen to be flushed out and cleaned at least every one or two weeks; and ( b ) if it refuses to flow I clean the nib with some wet tissue paper; works every time unless it's that time to flush the pen again. I realize this is obvious to many people, particularly the ink obsessed of long date.

 

For all that hassle you get a gorgeous red which even flows wet on an F nib Lamy Vista. The lesson can also be applied to other inks, in much smaller measure than Rouge Hematite, for instance yesterday Verde Muschiato was acting up on a Muji; instead of torturing the nib I cleaned it and voilà, perfect flow again. You need to decide if the hassle is worth it...

Edited October 6, 2012 by pseudo88

[autopsy]

Well, the problem I had with the 1670 was after putting it into my Pelikan m215 (I'd never put it in any expensive pen), that when I cleaned the pen out and had water flow clear, there would still be ink inside the nib. It wouldn't be crusty as those pictures suggest. I would unscrew the nib/feed off, run it under water, then shake out red ink from the top of the feed. It was a bit annoying to have to do that every time I put in 1670 in the pen (never happened with any other pen), but that's the cost of metal particles floating in ink I suppose.

[Vshin]

I've consigned my 1670 to dip pen status. Beautiful, saturated red but it's very high maintenance.

[JonSzanto]

I've consigned my 1670 to dip pen status. Beautiful, saturated red but it's very high maintenance.

Indeed. I've decided I'll order a bottle next time I'm shopping, and decant it into an old Sheaffer Skrip bottle, which has a molded-in small well at the top. I can then use a spare Esterbrook dip pen with a 2314-M nib, and I'll get a very cool ink with elegant colors and shading properties, and minimal upkeep on the pen. The spare I have even has a red Lucite handle, so it will make a good match!

Edited October 8, 2012 by JonSzanto

[alkman]

I have a Pilot tank pen which I put the 1670 inko into and let it crust at will and it starts even after a few days or more of sitting. In fact I have a difficult time getting the ink to flow nicely after I clean off the crusties. The residue IMO doesn't seem to be corrosive or clogging, but again that is my experience. And I do think it's unsightly, but the color completely makes up for this.