A Silent Nib Is A Smooth Nib

[adallak]

Evaluating the smoothness of a fountain pen is quite subjective. What is scratchy for me, can be butter-smooth for someone else. Nevertheless, one can compare smoothness of one's pens just by comparing the volume of the sound it makes.

 

Probably, everybody will agree with me that the less noise the nib makes the smoother it is. That's the reason I turn off music when I do comparison test of my pens. Recording the noise made with different pens on the same paper placed, say on the desk allows to have OBJECTIVE data to compare smoothness of nibs.

Edited May 13, 2012 by adallak

[Regan]

I'd like to start by saying that I'm hardly an expert on this topic but based off my experience with some pretty shocking pens and some amazing ones, I don't think sound is an amazing determiner purely because of the different ways people write. Something as simple as changing the way you grip the pen or the way the nib comes in contact with the paper might change the "smoothness" or the amount of noise a pen makes.

 

I think that there the amount of pressure applied will effect the amount of sound you make when writing. If you only press lightly against the page, you will make less noise and depending on the pen you might still succeed in laying down a very smooth, thick and consistent line. Applying more pressure might also result in increased resistance depending on the paper and this might make a pen appear less smooth.

 

Of course I might be completely wrong here, but I'll leave greater minds than mine to figure that out. These are just my thoughts.

[Effin1]

No expert either but some of my noisiest pens are my smoothest writers. I have a CS Dinkie 550 which seems to sing and I love it. Consistent ink flow, can keep up when writing at speed, smooth as butter and a tune as well. What more could a FP user ask.

[adallak]

I'd like to start by saying that I'm hardly an expert on this topic but based off my experience with some pretty shocking pens and some amazing ones, I don't think sound is an amazing determiner purely because of the different ways people write. Something as simple as changing the way you grip the pen or the way the nib comes in contact with the paper might change the "smoothness" or the amount of noise a pen makes.

 

I think that there the amount of pressure applied will effect the amount of sound you make when writing. If you only press lightly against the page, you will make less noise and depending on the pen you might still succeed in laying down a very smooth, thick and consistent line. Applying more pressure might also result in increased resistance depending on the paper and this might make a pen appear less smooth.

 

Of course I might be completely wrong here, but I'll leave greater minds than mine to figure that out. These are just my thoughts.

I think it is obvious I considered the same user, the same writing conditions, the same manner, the same pressure, etc. Sure, you can make more or less noise even with the same pen! It is not what I am talking about.

[adallak]

No expert either but some of my noisiest pens are my smoothest writers. I have a CS Dinkie 550 which seems to sing and I love it. Consistent ink flow, can keep up when writing at speed, smooth as butter and a tune as well. What more could a FP user ask.

I did not get it. If it is that smooth, there is almost no friction, what makes noise? I think this is completely wrong.

[FLJeepGuy]

No expert either but some of my noisiest pens are my smoothest writers. I have a CS Dinkie 550 which seems to sing and I love it. Consistent ink flow, can keep up when writing at speed, smooth as butter and a tune as well. What more could a FP user ask.

I did not get it. If it is that smooth, there is almost no friction, what makes noise? I think this is completely wrong.

First off, I don't really understand opening a thread for opinions, and then immediately attacking the two people that responded. I think this is completely wrong.

 

I have to agree with Effin1 as I too have a pen that "sings", my Rotring Initial. The pen does not transmit any vibration or tooth to the grip section, but does produce a high pitched tone when writing. Since this high frequency vibration is not transmitted to the grip section, it doesn't affect the way this pen feels when writing with it. Nor does whatever causes the sound pass on a feeling of friction or scratchiness through the grip. The pen has excellent flow and writes as smoothly as any pen in my collection.

 

So to answer your original question, I do not agree that sound is a one-to-one correlation to the feeling of smoothness of the nib. In some cases, whatever creates the sound isn't severe enough to affect the writing experience.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'm happy with the few nibs that I have that 'sometimes' sing.

Well I know I have one or two that some times sing....could well be they don't do it often, or I'd remember which they are.

 

They don't appear to be scratchy to me.

 

Well there were swords that sang for a while, until with use (from even just swinging through the air) the blade lost it's song. It was the mark of a perfect blade.

 

Same was for certain very expensive best straight razors from France. Have to pay extra for a singing razor, and they too lose their song, with use.

 

A nib don't squeak, it sings.

Could me one needs to change ones writing style to make a squeaky nib, sing.

 

Or change one's music taste.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Bo Bo Olson

[Effin1]

I haven't a clue what makes the noise. I sent it to Eckiethump when I got it to put a new sac in cos it's casein and I was frightened of damaging it with water. He sent it back with a note to say if the singing was unacceptable to take it to the pen show at Lytham and ask Oxonian to have a look at it. I was fascinated by a singing pen and couldn't wait to ink it up. It makes a lovely reassuring sound not exactly singing more of a purr. I just love it. I thought this is 1 contented pen. I hope it never stops. I have it inked all the time and it skips over the paper and is not the slightest bit fussy which paper I give it. Wonderful pen.

[Regan]

Ok, maybe I need to clarify that a bit.

 

What I meant by pressure was that some people will press harder or hold their pen differently to you when they write and this will effect the smoothness or sound of their writing. Of course to make it a fair test you would use the same ink, paper etc but you're asking individuals to compare their individual experience writing with the same pen and they are trying to relate to you how smooth they thought it was. They might hold their pens the same way but some might apply more or less pressure on different parts of the pen and this will of course effect the amount of sound produced and the overall writing experience. This is probably why people using the same pen complain about smoothness because we all write in different ways.

 

I'd also just like to point out that even by measuring sound you are being subjective... how loud is "loud"? By asking them to classify the volume produced you are already being subjective so unless you create a system which correlates volume in decibels to a specific level of smoothness then what could be "soft" and therefore smooth to me could be "loud" and scratchy to you. How do you therefore then define a "quiet" pen?

 

I think what you mean is that the rougher the nib the more noise it should make and therefore the less smooth it will be? Well I guess that may be true but pretty much every pen will make some degree of noise depending on the nib size,the way it's ground and the way it's used.

 

I also agree with the people above that some pens do "sing". Noise is a natural by product of writing with a fountain pen. In theory it sounds like you could use sound as a determiner of smoothness but I think people are just too subjective so there is no true way of determining a smooth writing pen unless you were the sole judge.

[Krittabhas]

i don't get it. why do we need to judge the smoothness by the sound? isn't it simply about the feeling when we write? :bonk:

Edited May 13, 2012 by Krittabhas

[fountainbel]

An EF or F nib- even perfectly ground - will logically always feel more scratchy compared to an M, B or BB nib.

 

Applying an identical writing pressure the generated contact surface pressure on an EF nib being higher.

 

Further on the finer the nib, the more the tine points tend to “bite” in the paper, which causes the “scratchy" sound.

Just my 2 (Euro)cents

Francis

 

 

[Pen Nut]

First thread I have seen regarding nibs 'singing' but did have that with my 146 Vermeil. More of a controlled howl than squeak, odd noise but following guidance from Oxonian I have learnt to smooth my nibs and the 'singing' has ceased. Got a bit too obsessive with the polished apperance of nibs I did when viewed under glass according to those a bit more knowledgeable than me but I do like things to look right when viewed close up.

[KrazyIvan]

I have smoothed my own nibs and still don't get why they can be buttery smooth yet be noisy on paper.

[paulturtle92]

A friend I asked earlier this month told me that my CS Churchill was noisy mainly because the tines were rubbing together when I wrote. It's an EF, and accordingly somewhat scratchy, but very smooth for an EF. My Lamy 2000 sings like a broken violin, but is the 2nd-smoothest pen in my arsenal.

 

However, there seems to be some truth to the statement: My Sheaffer Targa F is my smoothest (EF thru B ) pen, and it writes without a squeak. Logically, if a sound is produced while writing, then extra effort would be needed to write with it. That'd make for easily fatigued arms and hands, something I experience after 30 minutes or so writing with my Churchill. Who cares, it's still my most comfortable pen

 

Edit: lol at B ) becoming

Edited May 13, 2012 by paulturtle92

[jar]

I have a nice "75" that definitely sings but is also smooth and a joy to use. It has a somewhat italic nib and puts down a wonderfully expressive line, yet also constantly sings.

[torstar]

Smoothness to me is a pen that writes well on most of the 50 or so different types of paper that I will use with it over a year.

 

Every pen has a few types of paper that it won't write well on.

[adallak]

No expert either but some of my noisiest pens are my smoothest writers. I have a CS Dinkie 550 which seems to sing and I love it. Consistent ink flow, can keep up when writing at speed, smooth as butter and a tune as well. What more could a FP user ask.

I did not get it. If it is that smooth, there is almost no friction, what makes noise? I think this is completely wrong.

First off, I don't really understand opening a thread for opinions, and then immediately attacking the two people that responded. I think this is completely wrong.

 

I have to agree with Effin1 as I too have a pen that "sings", my Rotring Initial. The pen does not transmit any vibration or tooth to the grip section, but does produce a high pitched tone when writing. Since this high frequency vibration is not transmitted to the grip section, it doesn't affect the way this pen feels when writing with it. Nor does whatever causes the sound pass on a feeling of friction or scratchiness through the grip. The pen has excellent flow and writes as smoothly as any pen in my collection.

 

So to answer your original question, I do not agree that sound is a one-to-one correlation to the feeling of smoothness of the nib. In some cases, whatever creates the sound isn't severe enough to affect the writing experience.

I am sorry if my first replies looked a bit assertive. Did not have that in mind. I should have been more specific, I guess. "Singing" everybody is talking about is NOT the noise I referred to. I probably should have said "sound" instead of "noise", but then again people would think it is about "singing".

 

I still believe THE SAME PERSON can compare the smoothness of not singing nibs base on the loudness of the noise a nib makes. Why sound? Because loudness of the sound can be MEASURED one way or another, but you feelings cannot be measured.

 

I even can increase the sensitivity of the built-in microphone of my laptop, place a piece of paper on it and start writing while watching bars going up and down following the loudness of the noise made with a nib.

 

Hope this clarifies my approach a bit.

[adallak]

Ok, maybe I need to clarify that a bit.

 

What I meant by pressure was that some people will press harder or hold their pen differently to you when they write and this will effect the smoothness or sound of their writing. Of course to make it a fair test you would use the same ink, paper etc but you're asking individuals to compare their individual experience writing with the same pen and they are trying to relate to you how smooth they thought it was. They might hold their pens the same way but some might apply more or less pressure on different parts of the pen and this will of course effect the amount of sound produced and the overall writing experience. This is probably why people using the same pen complain about smoothness because we all write in different ways.

 

I'd also just like to point out that even by measuring sound you are being subjective... how loud is "loud"? By asking them to classify the volume produced you are already being subjective so unless you create a system which correlates volume in decibels to a specific level of smoothness then what could be "soft" and therefore smooth to me could be "loud" and scratchy to you. How do you therefore then define a "quiet" pen?

 

I think what you mean is that the rougher the nib the more noise it should make and therefore the less smooth it will be? Well I guess that may be true but pretty much every pen will make some degree of noise depending on the nib size,the way it's ground and the way it's used.

 

I also agree with the people above that some pens do "sing". Noise is a natural by product of writing with a fountain pen. In theory it sounds like you could use sound as a determiner of smoothness but I think people are just too subjective so there is no true way of determining a smooth writing pen unless you were the sole judge.

Regan, thanks for the reply.

 

First of all, I meant comparing the smoothness of different pens by THE SAME person.

Secondly, the volume of sound is a physical parameter and CAN be measured unlike someones subjective opinion regarding the writing experience or pleasure.

 

The reason I have started this topic is that it is hard even to me to say which nib is smoother. I do get better idea when I judge based both on the "feel" and the sound the nib makes (not singing some members mentioned, just regular sound of regular nib).

[adallak]

i don't get it. why do we need to judge the smoothness by the sound? isn't it simply about the feeling when we write? :bonk:

I do not get it! Why do you think that banging your head against a brick wall every time you do not get something will make you smarter? :bonk:

[topaz]

I'm very sensitive to noise- chalk on boards, the scratching of pencil on paper, a "scritchy" pen nib...they all give me shudders. I have XF nibs that don't make that sound and mediums that do. (I've never used a bold nib- my writing is fairly small and even mediums can make my writing look like blobs.) I finally have my XF Lamy Safari and although it has been called scratchy, I have no problems with it- even on the cheap paper used at work!