Moleskine vs. Black n'Red

[phillychuck]

I have decided to switch away from Moleskine to Black n'Red for daily notekeeping, because I was finding that my Moleskine was only really friendly to a few of my pen/ink combinations. I got some new Black n'Red notebooks today and did a comparative test that may be of interest. The following summarizes the bleed through the reverse of a page

 

----------------------------------------------------Moleskine------------------------Black n'Red----------

Lamy 2000 (M)+Swisher Antigua Blue---- -----severe --------------------------moderate------------

Waterman LeMan(M)+Levenger Raven Black---moderate-----------------------faint-----------------

Pelikan 250 ( + Levenger Cocoa---------------moderate-----------------------faint----------------

Pelikan 800 (M) + Levenger Cobalt --------------moderate-----------------------faint--------------

Pelikan 250 ( + Noodlers Legal Lapis ---------moderate -----------------------nil----------------

Pelikan 150 (M) + Noodlers Habanero -----------faint-----------------------------nil-----------------

Reform (M) + Levenger Emerald -----------------faint------------------------------nil--------------

 

I will try and do some photo's or scans over the weekend and post them.

 

To my mind, the faint and nil are acceptable.

 

And best of all, the Black n'Red is also much cheaper. I got the A5 ruled size for about $4.20 each plus shipping.

 

Here is the link (no I have no relation to this store):

http://www.business-supply.com/office_supp...ml?src=froogle3

[Bill D]

Our local Staples just started stocking Black n Red notebooks

 

Bill

[jbb]

Thanks for the comparrison chart. I'm a big fan of Black n' Red too. I love their legal pads most of all. They're even good enough to use with a dip pen without bleed through.

 

I have had great service with businesssupply.com. I usually have my shipment the day after I order and I live in the middle of nowhere. Their shipping charge isn't too bad and its free if you order over $50. I'm not affiliated with them in any way.

[KCat]

I ordered a 5-pack from these folks. With shipping it came out to a good $1 less per than I've seen at OD. There are a number of on-line sellers all with very fair prices. S&H at one place was only $4.95 but they didn't seem to have the A4 which is the size I like. But they had other sizes.

 

http://www.officequarters.com/

 

I really love these notebooks. I like the hardbound spiral A4s - probably the most expensive of the lot. But I love that they truly are as sturdy as any clipboard and protected (externally) from fluids (I'm a slob with my water bottle - I have a drinking problem*). All my inks work well on them and I like that they are not so smooth that my super smooth nibs skid.

 

can you tell I like these?

[Ana]

Yeah, I'm definitely moving in the BnR direction. Moleskines are great, but the finicky paper and the priciness limit the amount that I can write in them. A few Clairefontaine notebooks are available at the Container Store, and while they are pricey, they are still cheaper than Moleskines. And BnR notebooks are readily available at Staples, Office Depot, and Office Max, so I will be turning to those two when my Moleskine stash runs out.

[heavyiron]

I just took a stack of BnR notebooks back to Staples. I like them well enough, but the casebound ones were a little stiff to open wide to write in. I made that decision based ofter trying a small Moleskine. I just like the size and design. True, the paper isn't as nice in the Moleskine as in the BnR, but for my journal purposes call me weird, but I kinda like the less official look with a little bleed through to mix with all the different ink colors and writing nib variation in there to boot. I could go BnR wirebound, but I don't want perferated paper for my journal and their smallest are a little on the big side of what I want to carry around. The Moleskine fits inside my Franklin Covey binder no problem too--gives me something interesting to do while in corporate meetings.... I'm tempted to buy the 18 pack of Moleskines with a goal to eventually fill every one of them! With all said, I do have 3 BnR notebooks along with some Clairefontaine and Rhodia notebooks among others within reach...for when the mood strikes.

[KCat]

Here is the link (no I have no relation to this store):

http://www.business-supply.com/office_supp...ml?src=froogle3

i should have clicked on your link. That's the place I was talking about with the best shipping cost and overall costs for the notebooks.

[sonia_simone]

I just switched from a Moleskine cahier to a BnR hardcover spiral bound for my carry-everywhere notebook. The paper is so much better, the hardcover acts as a clipboard, and the spiral means I can write easily on both sides. They're really pretty great. (A pocket would be a good addition, I will say.)

 

Moleskine has a nice "nifty" factor, but for me the BnR are just too good to pass up.

[Russ]

I am curious regarding the use of either Moleskine or B&N: Say you fill three, five, or seven notebooks. How do you find anything back? Or do some of you compile indices? If so, you have to leave room for future additions, then make expanded copies, etc., etc. :blink:

 

I love my FP's and use them without exception, but I can't find a better way to organize my data -- at work and at home -- than on a logically structured tree on my hard drive.

 

I use the FP for everything else.

[thewolfgang]

I haven't tried the BnR because the spacing on the lines is too wide.

 

And though I agree with the complaints about Moleskine, I love the way they drink up ink on my favorite pens.

 

I agree that a computer is the best way to know where everything is, or may be. But I'm quite sure that I don't always want to know such things. They tend to interfere with the creative flow.

[Dr.Grace]

I just want to add that if your BnR notebook doesn't have an attached rubber band, the Levenger Book-Bungee works really well in a similar way to keep the edges from being bent.

[Yuri]

Would like to add my opinion to Mosleskine vs BnR.

 

I should say that I like Moleskines very much. My first Moleskine is gridded, pocket size notebook. The paper is not absolutely best in term of bleeding and feathering, but not that bad if used with pens with moderate flow and most, but worst inks. Later, I bought couple more moleskines, which are large and pocket sized day planners. The paper in these two is worse than my fisrt one--more feathering, but almost the same in terms of bleeding. However, I like the paper feel, how it takes ink, it shows ink shading quite well and writing looks even and crisp.

 

It was a lot of discussion of BnR. Well, I went to my local Office Depot, which has almost full line of these notebooks. They looked great to me, so I bought one, 5 ¾ X 8 ¼ spiral bound, to try. Brought it home and tried different pen/ink combinations. The paper is actually bullet-proof in terms of feathering and bleeding. Inks dries significantly faster on that paper than on Clairefontane or Rhodia. But…

 

It is wide ruled and is not available in narrower spaced lines or gridded. Ruling lines are not tidy and look blurry and irregular. When I was in the store I checked a lot of different BnR notebook samples and all of them had the same looking paper.

 

The paper does not show ink shading that well as moleskine.

 

The writing feel on that paper in quite similar to moleskine and I like that pencil feel with good feedback. Unfortunately, written line looks rugged on edges, which is not that visible for XF nibs, but more pronounced with fine and worse with medium nibs, especially if nib tip looks or feels like little ball (Parkers Froniers, Reflexes, Senator Windsor, Danitrio $27 pen).

 

All in all I think I will stay with moleskine’s paper.

[tankahn]

I thought I'll stay with moleskines too. I can manage the bleed-through if I avoid certain inks like PR and stay with Pelikan and waterman inks. I don't find Rhodia papers a great deal better as many pens skips which is just as irritating. I recently ordered 6 packs of small ruled moleskines notebooks. What a disappointment! My Pelikan Brilliant Blank ink and Florida Blues now bleeds. So far the safest ink is Lamy Blue. I have to test every ink/fp combination again and worst, the results are different from page to page. If you take a loupe and look at Moleskines papers, it look more pitted with longer strands of fibres here and there. Capillary action on the long fibres is causing the paper to feather and bleed. Excess inks get collected in tiny pools and these bled through. Where before I was able to use broad, zoom and music nibs. I'll have to stick with safe inks and fine nibs when using moleskines now. I seemed to be writing 'moleskines suck' whenever I start a new page now.

[FP_Lover]

How about a vote for even another brand? Kokuyo. I was looking for a cheaper pocket-sized book to carry around than Moleskine and found this a local shop. It's about the same size 3 x 5, has lined pages, extremely nice paper. 100 sheets, with a date block at the top of each page. Spiral bound with a poly cover. Very lightweight but lots of paper. Priced at $4.99. You can get them online from thedailyplanner.com. I'm sold on them so far. :-)

[Ana]

I just want to add that if your BnR notebook doesn't have an attached rubber band, the Levenger Book-Bungee works really well in a similar way to keep the edges from being bent.

Haven't tried the book bungee, but I made a BnR "hack" with some black 3/8" wide elastic purchased at the local fabric store + some clear duct tape. I just cut a length of elastic and taped the two ends on either end of the inside back cover. Et voila! A book closure a la Moleskine. Had to get creative with the duct tape though, because the elastic can pull out if you're not careful.

[wmbrady]

I ran across this thread while doing a comparison between Black n' Red and Clairefountain. I had previously purchased a dozen or so notebooks and the BnR came out on top. Not only do I not get bleed through, but they are cheaper than similar spiral bound 6x8 sized books. I have not used the Clairefountain, this is just a features vs cost comparison:

 

 

Clairefontain Black n' Red

Size: 6 x 8" 5 7/8 x 8 1/4"

# Sheets 60 144

Paper Wt. 23lb 90gsm/24lb

Cost $10.00 $5.99

 

Note: I emailed Black n' Red to ask if they had any paginated journals. The next day I got a very thorugh reply in which their Engineer deailed their review process and that in prevoius reviews the cost factor precluded pagination, but that they would take a look again at doing it. I am impressed.

 

-Bill Brady

[EdelmaK]

I have tried them all (yes, I am a tad compulsive!), and I am currently hooked on Clairfontaine's hardcover journals with blank pages. I use a guide behind the page I am writing on, which is a sheet of horizontal bars, as well as a blotter page which also doubles as a bookmark. This system works great for me, and I have yet to find a better hardcover journal with such FP-friendly paper!! IMHO...of course!!

[london]

Unfortunately I work in branding, and branding is everything here.

 

In the UK, I simply can't use a black and red in public. This is the choice of the normal office worker (no offence intended ). They are our standard stock at work.

 

Therefore Moleskines are my only option really, (but then I don't suffer from ink bleeding), partnered with a 15 year old rubber file that conveniently takes filofax paper.

 

 

- Mark

 

(I do admit to use a couple of BnR's at home though!! I like the hard back, spiral bound format)

[sonia_simone]

Mark, surely you need a Smythson notebook with featherweight paper. (And if you end up not liking it, feel free to send it along to me.)

[london]

Mark, surely you need a Smythson notebook with featherweight paper. (And if you end up not liking it, feel free to send it along to me.)

If only finances would allow! I did buy my Mrs-to-be a couple as a Christmas present last year (or was it the year before). A 'Ladies who Lunch' address book and a really cute little red one.

 

I must admit though, having introduced my beloved to Smythson, she subsequently introduced my credit card back to them for the purchase of our wedding guest book. Hmmm, now what pen to give to the guests to use in it???

 

- Mark