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Osmia 882 Supra Question

osmia 882 noob

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#1 fireant

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 14:56

Hello.

 

I was hoping you folks could help provide some background for this pen? I stumbled upon it online and liked the colors, I think it's is called violet pearl does that sound right? 

 

The pen was listed as a Osmia 882 RWA Supra with a 14kt nib.  The shop keeper said it writes, sadly I don't have a close up of the nib because it's en route.  Some searching here indicates the brand was bought by Faber Castell?  I have no idea if this pen precedes the buy out or not.

 

Any background you can provide is much appreciated.

:ninja:

 

 

 

 

osima1.jpg osima 4.jpg osima 3.jpg



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#2 playtime

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 15:07

i believe Faber Castell had at least owned in part Osmia. FC was likely involved with Osmia for some time prior to the genesis of the 88X series. Yours is an earlier version of the 882 (the clip is the tell - later versions of the 88X series enjoyed a more streamlined version of the clip, along with a nib explicitly engraved with Faber Castell).

 

If memory serves, there is a member, named Thomas(?), who uses the avatar Kaweco - he is very well familiar with the history of Osmia. As is Bo Bo Olson.

 

Whatever the case, yours will be a fine pen indeed! Osmia nibs are often semi-flexible (sometimes even more so) - and make for great daily writers:)

 


"Writing is 1/3 nib width & flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink. In that order."Bo Bo Olson

"No one needs to rotate a pen while using an oblique, in fact, that's against the whole concept of an oblique, which is to give you shading without any special effort."Professor Propas, 24 December 2010

 

"IMHO, the only advantage of the 149 is increased girth if needed, increased gold if wanted and increased prestige if perceived.  I have three, but hardly ever use them.  After all, they hold the same amount of ink as a 146."FredRydr, 12 March 2015

 

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#3 fireant

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 15:44

Thank you J,

I had stumbled on an earlier Osmia thread where Bo Bo Olson comment, I think I will try to message him.

 

Thanks again!



#4 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 17:51

Fireant...

It's still a good pen if Faber Castell is on it....if Osmia is still there.

Yours shows a real nice gold Osmia....That is one hell of a fancy Osmia. :notworthy1: I hope yours has the Diamond on the cap jewel. :thumbup:

Does...so it's a '51-52 pen.

 

The 883/4 were Osmia-Faber-Castell pens. In pre '51 Osmia had not those models..((or had not yet bought them out...as part owner F-C would have known about them & I think total new ownership could not have developed those Osmia's88X and other three # models,  due to lag time of design to production))...the F-C Dossenheim should be on the other side of the pen from Osmia.

 

Faber Castell bought into Osmia in 1936. In 1938, the Boehler brothers split the company....into Osmia and Boehler. IMO too much F-C sticking the nose in.

1951 Faber Castell finished it's buy out of Osmia, in they only made second tier pens, and needed a first tier pen.

Boehler managed to keep making pens into the '70's. School pens types....but the '38-war pens were as good as Osmia....out side not all his nibs were the Degussa nib.

1932 always broke Osmia (didn't have a office supply company to back it like Soennecken, MB & Pelikan) sold it's nib factory to Degussa who continued to make the Osmia nib for Osmia.....a very, very good nib. Yours is gold...= as good as the great steel nibs. If your nib has a nib size number in a Diamond it is semi-flex. If it says Supra it is 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.....in both cases the tines are made to spread no more than 3X a light down stroke. 

Do not try to do Olympic Splits with them....they are Great Nibs....but not Superflex.

Use a light to medium-light Hand with your Osmia-Faber-Castel.

 

The the stupid folks at F-C started erasing Osmia from the pen.

First...Faber-Castell has it's name on the far side of the barrel.

Then the same side.

No problem there....but the Osmia diamond  top vanished. As famous as a MB snowflake.

 

Osmia had some 3 cap jewels...could be four....each a bit different only one with the Osmia diamond on it. If it is not there don't panic....it could be some of the regular tops.

Had three to four clips too. One with Osmia on it, one with the form only, and two 'generic' of the era clips.

(Sometimes I think workers must have been paranoid of having a better pen than their bosses, so went plain jane, more than others would.)

 

After the Osmia diamond top vanished, so did the Osmia on the clip. Then Osmia vanished from the barrel.

Eventually all that was left on the semi-flex nibs were the Osmia diamond with F-C.

By mid-late '50's...Osmia had vanished....leaving only a Diamond on the Faber Castell pen.

 

A 'Gold' Boehler with  Osmia model number 54. A tortoise. The cap and the clip (generic) are Osmia.

3peCUqOKR1A01282498390S_zps2af57cbb.jpg

 

O-F-C 540....a Osmia would have been a 54 instead of 540.

faber_osmia_62_f_marbled_7.jpg

 

faber_osmia_62_f_marbled_3.jpg

Bill


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 08 April 2015 - 18:00.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#5 fireant

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 19:08

Thank you Bill/Bo Bo Olson!

There was no close up of the nib so I won't know until it arrives.  The seller shipped it yesterday from Europe so I'd imagine it will take a few weeks to arrive.

 

I'm not normally drawn to multicolored pens but I thought this one was so pretty I figured I'd take a chance on it.  There is a white marking on the cap, not sure if this is the diamond you're referring to Bill?  

 

I will post some pictures once it arrives.  Thank you so much for the kind response.



#6 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 21:04

Yes, that is the Osmia Diamond. :thumbup:

In the early '20's a Heidelberg Professor patented  a mixture of rare earth elements including  Osmium, that he sold to Osmia for nib tipping....so for a long time Osmia had the best tipping around. The Boehler brothers took the name Osmia for their company.

 

The seller said it is a Supra....has a Supra nib....

That is a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. I use that term because it is more flexible than semi-flex ...maxi-semi-flex, but not as flexible as a Super-flex nib.

 

I had bought a cheap pen that had a Rupp screw out nib (1922-70) in it that fit fine to a nice looking no name. It was the first 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex I noticed I had***; and still one of the more flexible of this flex stage that I have. For three days I walked around saying WoW that certainly a maxi-semi-flex nib. Then after three days :eureka: :eureka: :eureka: I realized it was one of those 'flexi' nibs some talked about but never defined. So I define this flex rate so folks know what it is.

 

There had been a long time ago talk of a 'flexi' nib ** ...that was not a "Flex"/super-flex. I have some 14 or so of them.

I don't want folks trying to treat that flex rate like it is a Super-flex nib, and ruin a nib that is wonderful with a 3 X tine spread by trying to make the nib do Olympic Splits of 5-6 or 7 X tine spread like a Super-flex.

 

**(when talking vintage Swan or Pelikan or a few other makers like Soennecken and some '50's MB nibs).

*** I was so 'noobie' I'd thought the steel Supra nibbed 540 marbled black, gray and pearl was just a wet writer that many spoke about. It was later I discovered what a Supra nib really was.

 

I also have some 27 or so semi-flex. Living in Germany makes it easier to get both those flex rates.

Got 7 or so Osmia pens (three Boehler also), with a half and half mix between Supra and the Diamond nib...and a mix of gold and steel nibs; both great and equal.

I use my Osmia nibs when telling folks great steel nibs can match great gold nibs and Osmia has great nibs. There is a myth that only gold is the best nib.

Osmia was always near broke (being a pen company with out an office supply company attached like Pelikan, Soennecken and MB), so offered a steel nib when others didn't....'cheaper'. But to be one of the 5-6 German top of the line pen companies, had to have steel nibs that matched gold ones.It does.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 08 April 2015 - 21:13.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 21:29

Dossenheim is just on the outside of Heidelberg. There was just an article just this week, showing a picture of the Factory then, where because Osmia was making grenades and small artillery shells. There was a 4 barrel flack gun posted in front of the Osmia factory. 

Some one persuaded the flack gun to move down the street and hide it better so the American didn't bomb the factory.

Heidelberg was not really bombed...3 bombs fell only. Nearby Mannheim/Ludwicshaven were smashed flat....

 

Once Heidelberg was the pen capital of the world....or of least of Europe. Osmia, Lamy, Herliz, Luxor, Kaweco, Mercedes, The real 'Original Reform'* fountain pen also, were all made here. Degussa, Rupp  and Bock made nibs here.

 

The Original Reform fountain pen was a first class top of the line pen then. I have a couple of war pens from it....very sturdy.

After the war, the Original Reform was so highly thought of that the companies that he had exported to before the war, sent him cash in advance so he could buy supplies to make his pen for them.

 

In the mid-fifties, when the ball point came in. He refused to compromise his quality. Closing down his factory instead. Some years later he sold his factory and name to Mulschner(sp) also in Heidelberg, who made third tier pens, like the 1745 Reform, Ero and a number of others.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#8 fireant

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 22:04

Wow that is quite a bit of history!

 

Did they name it reform because Heidelberg is not too far from Worms?

 

i can see I will need to dig around and learn more about German pens.  I wish now that I'd learned more about fountain pens when I lived there. 



#9 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:51

From Kaweco-2007. He is a real scholar of German fountain pens. I talk with him occasionally in flea-markets.

 

""

Posted 31 March 2007 - 18:51

Hi Pen Friends
Some questions about the origin of "Reform Fountain Pens" appeared at FPN and Lion and Pen. It seems that the sources for searching are not very good, so I will write a short history review:
During the second half of the 20th the KAWECO, one of the world`s greatest writing equipment producers in Heidelberg, Germany, immediately went down and Philipp Mutschler and some of his co-workers decided to leave the firm in 1928 to build up their own factory. 1929 the Kaweco actually went to bancrupty and the "Badische Federhalterfabrik Knust, Grube & Woringen" bought the Kaweco trade mark.
The first calculation of the new Mutschler works sounded fantastic. They had a small building, similar to a shed, 5 turnery machines, a chasing- and a polishing machine and 10 workers. The first real cash flow was expected after 6 weeks! (Today it sounds like: somebody had invented a money printing machine). But they managed it.
1932 was the worst economic year because the world monetary crisis swapped across the pond, but Mutschler expanded and had to build a new factory hall in 1938.

They cooperated with the "Reform" works from Nieder- Ramstadt, which had a daughter firm in Heidelberg. After a fusion they changed their trademark from "Certo" to "Reform" with an "R" with wings. Mutschler was one of th first who used the injection moulding process for FP production and therefore they constructed their own machines.

 

Reform delivered complete writing systems and parts to several other well known firms like Geha, Herlitz, Rotring, AT Cross, Elysee, Dunnhill, Dupont, Cartier, Caran d Ache or Christian Dior. They bought the "DEGUSSA"- and the "RUPP" nib factory and produced excellent nibs. Alas, after all nearly nobody knew "Reform".

1963 Otto and Peter, the sons of Philipp Mutschler took over the firm. 10 years later they went to the large old building which once was a part of the Kaweco factory.
But in 1999 they had to leave and to sell the house. Reform, a trade mark with its best reputation, which had produced 10 Million fountainpens per year in the early 90th (4 times as much as Lamy) went down. The rescues of Sanford and Ullrich Mutschler failed and the firm went to bancrupty in the late 2003.
The Machines were sold to far east, but the quality of the once produced "Iridium Point Germany" nibs is today only a shadow of the old stuff from Heidelberg. And I am also not sure which of the today sold fountainpens is actually "Reform New old stock"
Pic: Da olde Refograph in black and pearl celluloid mint with cork seal and an extra tiny BHR safety with rectractable nib.
(please do not use pic and text for commercial use)
Thomas Neureither

Attached Images
  • post-22-1175359901.jpg

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#10 fireant

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 20:38

Oh my that is a pretty pen!



#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 21:28

 I have both a "Certo" & "Reform" war pens....both so very stable...normal back and gold. Generic war nib....not the worst nib I have but some thing like Kaweco's '30's Reform is on my list.

Saw some real nice '50's Reform pens too that are on that list.

 

Sigh, the crank on my money press is broken. The part is on back order.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#12 illan

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 12:25

Hi all,

Although I do not post very much, let me contribute a bit to the Osmia story. There is quite a good storyline in http://www.fountainpen.it/Osmia/en.

 

I'm an avid Osmia collector; I have around 45 working models -I stopped counting-, ranging from a 1929 Osmia-Parker Duofold junior to NOS Osmia-Faber Castell Progress 66. Supras, Brilliants, Compressors, all kinds! Nibs from original Osmia, Osmia Supra gold, Osmia steel, Degussa, Pallaig.....

Not to mention around 30 in the process of being repaired to be sold to finance new ones!

 

firant, your pen is a very early 1950-51 Osmia 882 made for the Netherlands market. Series 88x were introduced to compete with MB top of the range. It is NOT an Osmia Supra. It looks like it certainly has an Osmia Supra 14K nib (picture is blurred) but the logo in the barrel shows the standard Osmia Logo of that era....The RWA indicates distributed by the Rikkers brothers who used the RWA acronym Rikkers Waren Amsterdam or perhaps Rikkers Warmoesstraat Amsterdam? The clip is clearly late 40s as Bo Bo Olson indicates.

Piston filler so even if you want to change the cork it's very easy. I have two similar ones, not RWA and they are gorgeous

There are quite a few RWA Osmia around, in different working orders. This is perhaps an indication of how good Osmia's workmanship was. You can always repair them and they will work after 80 years. Try that with any other item made after 1950. 

 

Only today I'm getting the pens in order, including a massive Osmia 448 siwth a gorgeous size 8 Supra semi flex nib (bigger than a MB 146 and only slightly smaller than a 149).

 

 

Enjoy a fantastic pen!



#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 20:22

Good luck with your 'big' Osmia-F-C, 448....one of the pens on my grail list.

 

This one too.

B01Jfw2kKGrHqRg4Ew5FYulSBMcCgocBw_12_zps

 

B01JREwEWkKGrHqNjUEpeRZ0OLBMcCW45dIg_12_

'30's Supra pen...a grail pen....did not have the €350 the first and last time I saw one four years or so years ago..

 

 

That was the best article I'd ever seen on Osmia.

 

The fountain pens took the inscription A. W. Faber-Castell Dossenheim but nevertheless the continued to bear the Osmia brand and logo, which was well known and respected, until the '60s.

 

I am not a scholar.. but from what others said....Osmia was mostly off the pens  by the late '50's..Then I have late '50's pens instead of mid '50's pens....as Osmia slowly  vanished. I don't buy Faber-Castel pens with out Osmia on it....none with only an Osmia nib and no other markings.

 

After the war, not having the facilities suffered significant damage, production was resumed at full speed from 1946, proposing the same models of before, but with only with a piston filler and with the explicit endorsement (in addition to the Osmia brand and logo) of A. W. Faber-Castell.

 

This is new to me....thought that started with the final take over in '51. As I said....my knowledge is spotty.

Ah Ha my 540 could be older than I thought. :)  They had a 54 before the war. They just added an third number.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#14 Kaweco

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 20:30


..............That was the best article I'd ever seen on Osmia.............

 

I think he had good sources...

Thomas



#15 fireant

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 04:20

Wow that grail pen is gorgeous.



#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:09

Thanks....I thought it was quite a Sonnecken&MB chaser.

 

Boehler '38-40 after the split of Osmia. Got these, cap and body shown are to different pens....just showing what was possible. Have both pens.

The cap with the great clip is a BHRC Boehler 'Gold' 54. the other BHRC with the great ink window is a Boehler Gold 76....HB top...Herman Boehler...as shown below, Osmia/Boehler used 4-5 different cap tops and clips....not all were the Diamond.

B0ijpCWkKGrHqQOKioEWJJF95bBMvLLjW0w_3.jpB0ijkQwmkKGrHqIOKkEOcTqjdZBMvK9hs1Q_3.jp

When they split up they used the same model numbers.

 

below another Boehler Gold 54, full tortoise.

The cap Jewel and clip are normal alternatives, in the Osmia/Boehler range. 

B05qqKwB2kKGrHqMOKiEERGChR8EBMcV7mpcw_12

 

3peCUqOKR1A01282498390S_zps2af57cbb.jpg

B05qqKwB2kKGrHqMOKiEERGChR8EBMcV7mpcw_12ZL6RrVDHwYC11282498416S_zps34268f27.jpg


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 Christopher Godfrey

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 15:20

Bo Bo: that Boehler with the great ink window reminds me absolutely of my 1930s Montegrappa, which has <very> similar window (Unfortunately, the pen needs restoration; but it has a super-flexy, steel nib)

 

Excuse the small hi-jack, folks!



#18 fireant

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 04:18

Bo Bo: that Boehler with the great ink window reminds me absolutely of my 1930s Montegrappa, which has <very> similar window (Unfortunately, the pen needs restoration; but it has a super-flexy, steel nib)
!


Can you post a picture?

I love how Bo Bo's ink window as well.

#19 Kaweco

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 07:17

 .................There was just an article just this week, showing a picture of the Factory then, where because Osmia was making grenades and small artillery shells. There was a 4 barrel flack gun posted in front of the Osmia factory. 

Some one persuaded the flack gun to move down the street and hide it better so the American didn't bomb the factory...............

Hello BoBo

Alas, I didn`t see the article. Did it come up in the local newspaper or otherwhere else in the net?

Thank you

Thomas



#20 Kaweco

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:56

ok, ok, I have got it.

But back to Osmia fountainpens:

<<<<<<<<<<

 

Hello fireant

Here are some from the Osmia 8xx series:

# 1 and 2: Osmia 882.

#2 and 3: Osmia 883

and #4 Osmia 884.

Similar in each case is the streamline blind cap for the filling knob, the single broad cap ring and the clip fitting, which is a screw in with the Osmia diamond.

There are 2 different clips, the spade clip (same as in your fp) and the pointed clip. Both clips had been made in Pforzheim. Both versiones appear with the same production number. (The Osmia 884 had a pointed clip, alas it is missing) There are black versiones and green striated (# 2 and 5)

#1 and 3 are earlier versiones, they carry the gold imprint Osmia and the blind imprint Faber Castell on the other side. The newer versiones carry the Faber Castell imprint only. It possibly can be that the Osmia imprint had been deleted since when Faber took over the rest of the Faber stocks or after Georg Böhler, one of the founders, had passed away. The Osmia diamond remained on the cap top for a few years and IIRC it has been imprinted in some lead pencils. But all fountainpens had been made by the old factory in Dossenheim. Faber ever had been in its best tradition a quality pencil maker who ever had received their fountainpens off- side from Osmia until they closed the doors. Alas the quality went down during the 60th a little bit and I must confess that, exept of the Silvexa- Cap, I was never very fond of my Castello 7 from my primary school days.

I didn`t find yet a 8x Osmia, like 82 or 83. Possibly the Osmia 8xx had been a higher quality pen which exclusively had been made with gold nibs. (3- Digits imprint means: gold- nib)

Kind Regards

Thomas

osmia%20faber%208xx_zpso5bv4h5l.jpg

 








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