Switching From Overwriting To Underwriting?

[vls]

Hello all

 

Has anyone managed to successfully switch from overwriting to underwriting?

And how long did it take? I was thinking if I bought a Lamy Safari/Al-Star it might help the transition but am unsure if this would work :hmm1:

 

Also is forward-sloping cursive possible with underwriting?

[Nonsensical]

I'm an underwriter, and my cursive slopes forwards, so yes, it is. The Lamy Safari/Al-star grip only forces you to hold the pen using a tripod grip, but may not prevent you from overwriting...

[rodrigaj]

Hello all

 

Has anyone managed to successfully switch from overwriting to underwriting?

And how long did it take? I was thinking if I bought a Lamy Safari/Al-Star it might help the transition but am unsure if this would work :hmm1:

 

Also is forward-sloping cursive possible with underwriting?

 

Please excuse a dumb question. What is underwriting and overwriting?

[Nonsensical]

Underwriting is where your hand is under the line when you write, and overwriting is where your hand is on top of what you are writing, like a hook.

Have a look here: http://www.nibs.com/Left-hand%20writers.htm

Edited June 16, 2012 by Nonsensical

[rodrigaj]

Underwriting is where your hand is under the line when you write, and overwriting is where your hand is on top of what you are writing, like a hook.

Have a look here: http://www.nibs.com/Left-hand%20writers.htm

 

Thank you. Is this solely a left handers issue? All of the pictures that were referenced appeared to be left handers.

[Nonsensical]

No, it isn't, it was just the first photo I found off google that was relevant... :roflmho:

[Grammatoncleric]

Hi,

 

Pardon another question perhaps borne of ignorance..... what is the advantage/disadvantage of underwriting -v- overwriting?

[Andrew H]

Hi,

 

Pardon another question perhaps borne of ignorance..... what is the advantage/disadvantage of underwriting -v- overwriting?

Underwriting means less ink on your hand since your hand doesn't brush up against your writing, and in some cases, more ergonomic--meaning less stress on your hand and wrist.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Andrew H

[Pinkys.Brain]

Hi,

 

Pardon another question perhaps borne of ignorance..... what is the advantage/disadvantage of underwriting -v- overwriting?

Underwriting means less ink on your hand since your hand doesn't brush up against your writing, and in some cases, more ergonomic--meaning less stress on your hand and wrist.

 

That's not 1000% right. You can for example but the paper in a 180° angle in front of you and write away from you body: Not much stress for your hand despite the pushing motion, easy to achieve a nice slope... Underwriting is generally considered the better way of writing (for a left-handed), but you do not necessary have to relearn if you are a notorious overwriter.

 

Relearning takes a lot of effort. I am doing it at the moment and it does still look awful after about 4 weeks. But that depends on the person. Just give it a try and see for yourself.

 

 

@OP: Forward sloping has much to do with the position of the paper. I would say that forwards sloping is not particularly difficult. It is only a matter of training.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Pinkys.Brain

[ink mixer]

It took about three months. It helps that the overwriting grip was painful and once I figured out a tripod grip it was just more pleasant to use.

[dgturner]

I keep trying to shift to underwriting but it actually is uncomfortable. I suspect the discomfort results from my hand and arm moving in an unaccustomed manner. I understand that overwriting is causing my wrist to contort, which limits my ability to use the correct muscle groups for writing...

A vicious cycle indeed.

[escribo]

I've frequently wondered about overwriting: why? What was one's original motivation to take up take up writing this way? It looks as if it would be uncomfortable, but there must be some advantage I'm not seeing, else why do it? I have two lefty cousins who both overwrite, so in my experience anyway it is a common practice with left-handers.

Edited July 1, 2012 by escribo

[J. John Harvey]

I would have thought overwriting would have been discouraged in school... I'm not a lefty, and I've never really paid attention to how my left handed friends write, but I think I would have noticed them writing this way, because it looks damn difficult and cramp-y.

[ink mixer]

There is a book called Insights into Left Handed Calligraphy by Betsy Rivers-Kennedy. It is mostly aimed at broad edged scripts such as uncial and italic. The variety in left handed positions comes from our different attempts to copy the right-handed ellipse. The overhand hook is one way that is effective for dealing with right handed script. To do italic as an underhanded writer requires a strange paper orientation. It has grown easier, but in the beginning it caused some mental stress. I would still be writing overhand, but I found that the underhanded tripod grip was more comfortable for me. Anyway, if you a left handed or need to help a left handed writer, I highly recommend this book.

[beachwalker]

I would have thought overwriting would have been discouraged in school... I'm not a lefty, and I've never really paid attention to how my left handed friends write, but I think I would have noticed them writing this way, because it looks damn difficult and cramp-y.

 

As a student in various Catholic schools in the late '50s, I can assure you that, if you were a left hander that couldn't be converted (made into a right handed writer) the pressure was on to have your product conform to what a right hander produced - it had to look like it was done by a right hander. And, unfortunately, overhand produced that look while keeping the paper in a correct right handed orientation. This process was actually taught, not discouraged, and there are far too many 'handicapped' left handlers as a result. As a left handed military brat, who never went to the same school for more than one year, and someone who loved to write creatively (which some of my teachers enjoyed and encouraged) I managed to escape - and I'm very thankful for that. Now, my paper orientation has the long edge of the pad almost parallel to the edge of the desk - most of the time, just to get the slant in the right direction. This has worked well for me since returning to a FP - my hand stays below the ink, not on top of it.

 

Regards, John

[ink mixer]

John or Beachwalker,

Thanks for the great response. I never thought to turn my paper on my own. It wasn't till a Calligraphy book mentioned it that I started doing it. Do you turn your paper counter-clockwise or clockwise?

[beachwalker]

John or Beachwalker,

Thanks for the great response. I never thought to turn my paper on my own. It wasn't till a Calligraphy book mentioned it that I started doing it. Do you turn your paper counter-clockwise or clockwise?

 

Sorry for the delayed response - I thought summer was supposed to be a more relaxed period!

As to the slant of my paper when writing - clockwise, with the top edge in roughly the 11 - 5 position (rather than the straight up and down of 12 - 6). When practicing caligraphy, I tend to have it in about the same position, even though I'm using an oblique pen. Usually, when I'm in a rush, or table top space is limited, the paper is somewhat more 'normal' and the slant of my writing somewhat less - or looking very contrived. Hope this helps.

Regards, John

[Ghost Plane]

It's not just in English. My favorite left-handed overwriter not only writes English that way, but also the right to left Farsi and Arabic. In those languages, it seems to be an advantage as he can make the pen do the most graceful swoops and arcs for gorgeous calligraphy. When he gets to English, he curves his wrist further around. There are times I'd love to be in his brain to see if everything looks reversed from my view of the world. :hmm1:

 

Don't ask me. I'm ambidextrous, also forced to write exclusively right handed by the school system, when my natural inclination was to pick up the implement with whatever hand was closest. So my father, a life long FP user, taught me a back on the pen stance and a variety of what's called "shoulder writing". This style means I can write the entire day, every day, and the worst I suffer is tingling in my forefinger if it's been a real marathon and the occasional sore neck and numb empennage if I've been sitting at a desk the entire time.

[Biber]

I switched from over writing to under writing when I was in elementary school, some 35 or so years ago. The main reason I could remember was that I didn't care for smudged pencil lines and all the pencil lead residue on the side of my hand. I don't remember the transition being too difficult, just something I had to stick to once I decided to do it.

[guilhermejf]

About 6 years ago I was an overwriter (beginning high school). I saw I needed to change my handwriting, because I was starting to learn classical guitar and I was taught to do precise, relaxed movements. So I saw how wrong, cramped was my writing. So I started griping the pen in a less incorrect way, underwriter position, and with less pressure.

About 3 years ago I had contact with my first fountain pen and started practicing handwriting, to develop a good, relaxed technique. And I think I am going on the right direction. My letters are getting more regular and fluid.

Edited July 11, 2012 by guilhermejf