Help With Identification Please.

[FullofInk]

Hello. If anyone can say which model this is I would appreciate it very much. It is actually my first fountain pen and I got it from ebay. I got it just this morning. It has Sheaffer, made in U.S.A. on the nib and W.A. Sheaffer pen co. - Fort Madison, Iowa, U.S.A. - Made in U.S.A. written on the body in three rows. No white dot on the cap (why?) and Sheaffers on the clip. 13.5cm long with the cap and 12cm without it. It has a short nib and long section where you hold it with your fingers and I can not find a model like that one to find out its name. The seller said it is a snorkel but there is no little pipe under the nib. The end of it unscrews and the metal part goes out smoothly. But how do I fill it then without the snorkel? How do I fill it then at all? There is another metal part on top of the rubber ink bag. So do I remove that and then take out the end of the fountain pen to snork ink? Again, there is no tube so what do I snork ink with? I thought that snorkel means that it has that little tube under the nib. Also I would like to know how did I do price wise, it was 21.55 GBP. Also, I was told that when I get a new fountain pen I am to put it in water for 5-6 days. Is that true? You can zoom in pretty much on these pictures. I tried to get the details as best as I could. If more pictures are needed I will make a new post here, I can not put more here. Thanks to all who reply.

Edited September 21, 2011 by FullofInk

[Scrawler]

That is not a "snorkel". The vacuum filler mechanism is the same as on early 1950s Craftsmen. Although that is not a Craftsman, because it has the Admiral nib. To fill it you put the nib in the ink, pull up on the plunger mechanism, then push it back in. Leave the nib in the ink for a few seconds to allow the sac to expand again, then screw the plunger back into the barrel.

[ANM]

I have never seen one with the inner metal tube flared out on the end like that one. If you put it back together and it does not fill, there are some inner gaskets that might need replaacing.

[FullofInk]

I have never seen one with the inner metal tube flared out on the end like that one. If you put it back together and it does not fill, there are some inner gaskets that might need replaacing.

I do not understand. "Inner metal tube flared out on the end". What is flared, burned you mean? It does pump, I took it apart for identification only.

 

I thought it was a snorkel fountain pen. I bought it on ebay named snorkel Sheaffer but the picture was only from the top of the nib. I assumed the tube was there, snorkel right? I prepared for a snorkel for weeks, looked it up here, lots on the web and I thought it would be easier to identify it. That people here will tell me like a shot. I tracked at least half a dozen sales of Sheaffer snorkels on ebay, just watched them and they all went between 20 and 22 GBP, unbelievably. So I thought that is about a going rate. I have no problem with it being a vacuum filled I just want to know is it worth it. I do like it actually. And if the seller really did not know the difference between snorkel and vacuum or he did. So I am asking here before I contact him. Today I got it and to my surprise it is not a snorkel. There is a picture of the whole fountain pen.

 

So please anyone who might know, is that a fair price for it? What ever it might be?

Also should I put it in water for a week or not? Or how to clean it at all?

[Scrawler]

Sorry I misinformed you. That is a Triumph style nib.

[Scrawler]

Having consulted friends, I am informed that it is probably a Touchdown Valiant from 1950. The lack of a white dot and the smooth section are problems, because the Valiant was a white dot model. The lack of white dot places it at the bottom end of the range and it may have been intended as a school pen. However the Triumph style nib places it in a more expensive range. I hope that Sheaffer experts will be able to give a more positive ID. In around 1951-52 Sheaffer introduced the snorkel to their more expensive pens. This model got that treatment then.

[Ernst Bitterman]

The "Thin Model" TDs all had an ink-window and a textured section. That point is shorter than the triumphs used in the upper end of the TM line, too. This thing looks very like some sort of transitional species between the TM Admiral touchdown and the Target/Imperial III, which would be great news if there were organic evolution in pens rather than demonstrable and occasionally intelligent design. It is also quite similar to the vexing object in this thread, but with a screw- rather than slip-cap.

 

...all of which comes across as if I mean to tread upon Scrawler, when it's just an expression of frustration at YET ANOTHER mysterious pen from an era I thought I had a pretty good grip on (not "expert", but working on it).

[FullofInk]

Thanks for the effort. Valiant has a normal, longer Triumph nib, mine has a short one and the golden edge around the cap is lower then in a Valiant. Also the section where you hold it is too long.I really can not say anything.

[Scrawler]

The "Thin Model" TDs all had an ink-window and a textured section. That point is shorter than the triumphs used in the upper end of the TM line, too. This thing looks very like some sort of transitional species between the TM Admiral touchdown and the Target/Imperial III, which would be great news if there were organic evolution in pens rather than demonstrable and occasionally intelligent design. It is also quite similar to the vexing object in this thread, but with a screw- rather than slip-cap.

 

...all of which comes across as if I mean to tread upon Scrawler, when it's just an expression of frustration at YET ANOTHER mysterious pen from an era I thought I had a pretty good grip on (not "expert", but working on it).

Not treading on me Ernst. This pen has aspects of being transitional as you say. This may well be a very rare mystery pen. As I have shown I cannot accurately identify it, so I am please to get any feedback myself. I hope that others will chime in. But right now my suspicion is that FullofInk has snagged a strange and "wonderful" object.

[jar]

...all of which comes across as if I mean to tread upon Scrawler, when it's just an expression of frustration at YET ANOTHER mysterious pen from an era I thought I had a pretty good grip on (not "expert", but working on it).

 

My experience has always been that it is just when you finally know something that someone presents and example that totally changes everything you thought you knew.

 

I have a vacfill Tucky like that, in the solid brown that supposedly only came out after the introduction of the TD, yet sho nuff, it has a jenuwine thin rod plunger.

[FullofInk]

The "Thin Model" TDs all had an ink-window and a textured section. That point is shorter than the triumphs used in the upper end of the TM line, too. This thing looks very like some sort of transitional species between the TM Admiral touchdown and the Target/Imperial III, which would be great news if there were organic evolution in pens rather than demonstrable and occasionally intelligent design. It is also quite similar to the vexing object in this thread, but with a screw- rather than slip-cap.

 

...all of which comes across as if I mean to tread upon Scrawler, when it's just an expression of frustration at YET ANOTHER mysterious pen from an era I thought I had a pretty good grip on (not "expert", but working on it).

 

Hehey! Exactly, body of Admiral but without a dot on the cap and the section and the nib of Imperial III. What does transitional mean, I mean even if it is transitional it must have a name? And thanks Scrawlwe for a "strange and "wonderful" object". Nice to hear even thought it might...

[Scrawler]

The "Thin Model" TDs all had an ink-window and a textured section. That point is shorter than the triumphs used in the upper end of the TM line, too. This thing looks very like some sort of transitional species between the TM Admiral touchdown and the Target/Imperial III, which would be great news if there were organic evolution in pens rather than demonstrable and occasionally intelligent design. It is also quite similar to the vexing object in this thread, but with a screw- rather than slip-cap.

 

...all of which comes across as if I mean to tread upon Scrawler, when it's just an expression of frustration at YET ANOTHER mysterious pen from an era I thought I had a pretty good grip on (not "expert", but working on it).

 

Hehey! Exactly, body of Admiral but without a dot on the cap and the section and the nib of Imperial III. What does transitional mean, I mean even if it is transitional it must have a name? And thanks Scrawlwe for a "strange and "wonderful" object". Nice to hear even thought it might...

A transitional is between two types. It happens when a manufacturer is designing a new type of pen and it is made using some old pieces to show how it may look. I am more familiar with Esterbrook transitional, which have the flat end of the old style, but a jewel on top of the new style. Later the flat end was replaced by a jewel. Transitional pens that have aspects of the old and the new can be rare and collectable. You may just happen to have lucked out and, other than your disappointment at not having a snorkel, you may well have a valuable collectors item that needs to be preserved. If so, your pen should be in a museum and you should go and buy yourself the snorkel version to use as your wring pen.

[ANM]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/matthewsno/DSCF3567.jpg

 

I was referring to the end of this metal tube. In all of them that I have seen, the end is straight but in yours it is flared out to form a flange instead of a straight fit.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Poking around in the PCA library, I found a thing that claims to be of about 1959, with a couple of cartridge filling items in the shape of this thing and the slightly grander "Gold Imperial" of that other thread. They are unhelpfully named the 500 Cartridge and 875 Cartridge, reflecting their suggested prices. Both have slip-caps.

 

sigh.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Ernst Bitterman

[Scrawler]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/matthewsno/DSCF3567.jpg

 

I was referring to the end of this metal tube. In all of them that I have seen, the end is straight but in yours it is flared out to form a flange instead of a straight fit.

I am thinking this may be an interim design as they develop something that matches the size of the section-sac attachment. If the tube was straight for the width of the attachment it might not develop enough vacuum to collapse the sac. This could be another indicator of a transitional design.

[ANM]

But was it a dead end transition? If it were an interim design, what came after it? It might have been an end of the line improvement.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ANM

[Ernst Bitterman]

I'm not seeing any flare in the protector that isn't easily attributable to mere reflections. To me, that looks like the same sac guard as is found in a TM or an Imperial.

[Scrawler]

 

Look closely at the green pen, 4th from the left middle row. Run your cursor over the image and read the comment.

[FullofInk]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii101/matthewsno/DSCF3567.jpg

 

I was referring to the end of this metal tube. In all of them that I have seen, the end is straight but in yours it is flared out to form a flange instead of a straight fit.

 

I understand now. The end of it does not matter, suction will happen if it is straight or not. Suction happens on the sides of the tube. And this green one does look exactly like the one here from the outside. Good thing this guy does not know his name too, ha?

 

Today was an interesting morning. I woke up and saw that there is a Jinhao JO34 in my mail box. Ordered in the first days of JUNE. Then I see that the seller of this Sheaffer gave me a refund. 22.45 out of 24.48 GBP. I mailed him to ask if he knows anything about this one and to tell him it is not a snorkel. I will attach the only picture he gave on ebay for you to see. He apologised and refunded me at night. I mailed him back so we split the cost of sending it back to him to UK.

picture.doc

[FullofInk]

I did not mean to say that I do not want to know what this fountain pen is with my last posts, so if anyone is near its name give please write it down here. An update - the seller gave me a refund right away when I told him that it is not a snorkel and that I am asking around to see what it actually is and that we should wait and see then. So, like I said I mailed him to arrange sending it back but he said I can keep it as sorry for the mix up. So i would still like to know what is this 2 GBP fountain pen name. And this one by dimensions looks exactly like that green one.

Edited September 23, 2011 by FullofInk