Jump to content

Pilot Capless Trapdoor Mechanisms


milo

Recommended Posts

Hi folks,

 

so I recently received a Blue Kasuri/Carbonesque which I purchased from a UK supplier. I was comparing the trapdoor mechanism with that of the Deep Yellow purchased from Japan. I swear they look different!

The yellow seems to have a vertical oriented spring that is compressed when the nib pushes through.

The blue seems to have a horizontal oriented spring attached to the underside of the hole, with a little rod that attaches to the trapdoor (the spring is similar to other spring based lever systems like clothes pegs or mouse traps).

 

Has anyone else noticed differences in mechanisms? Can anyone offer an explanation?

 

cheers,

Milo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 17
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • milo

    6

  • antoniosz

    4

  • Moose

    2

  • MYU

    2

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi folks,

 

so I recently received a Blue Kasuri/Carbonesque which I purchased from a UK supplier. I was comparing the trapdoor mechanism with that of the Deep Yellow purchased from Japan. I swear they look different!

The yellow seems to have a vertical oriented spring that is compressed when the nib pushes through.

The blue seems to have a horizontal oriented spring attached to the underside of the hole, with a little rod that attaches to the trapdoor (the spring is similar to other spring based lever systems like clothes pegs or mouse traps).

 

Has anyone else noticed differences in mechanisms? Can anyone offer an explanation?

 

cheers,

Milo

 

No explanation here, but I just checked all six of my Vanishing Points and the Yellow and the Raden have the spring that looks like a 'W' with the middle flattened and coiled. The others (Black, Blue Kasuri, LE Orange, and Chrome) all have a spring which has the 'O' part touching the trap door ('O' as if you are looking "through" the spring. So I think mine are actually backwards from yours.

 

Okay, I did a horrible job explaining that. Suffice it to say: Yes, I have noticed a difference in the mechanisms. It may be due to a change in production as the Yellow and Raden are my two most recent purchases and it sounds like your Kasuri is your most recent. Maybe Pilot/Namiki changed the production on them!

Well for you, if you wrestle on, for in persistency lies victory, and with the morning may come the wished-for blessing. But not always; there is a struggle with defeat which some of you will have to bear, and it will be well for you if you have cultivated a cheerful equanimity. Remember, too, that sometimes 'from our desolation only does the better life begin.' Even with disaster ahead, it is better to face them with a smile, and with the head erect, than to crouch at their approach. And, if the fight is for principle and justice, even when failure seems certain, where many have failed before, cling to your ideal, and, like Childe Roland before the dark tower, set the slug-horn to your lips, blow the challenge, and calmly await the conflict.

 

 

--"Aequanimitas" William Osler

Valedictory Address, University of Pennsylvania, May 1, 1889

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The technical terms for the springs are "coil spring" or "compression spring" for the cylindrical ones and "torsion spring" for the W shaped one. I don't have an explanation for why they would be different but either type seems to be right for the application. Maybe Pilot swaps them in and out of the assembly line at will or maybe they changed from one type to the other at some point in time.

 

All my VPs, ranging from 2006 back to 1973 have the coil spring (including a Raden). The CL-200s and CL-300s from the 1960's have a leaf spring (a flat bar which provides the spring force). The "aluminum pipe" models from the 1960's use flat wire "leaf spring". The Sliding Clip model from 1968 has a "tension spring." All the VP designs seem to have some type of trap door but the spring has evolved...

 

By the way, Antoniosz once posted a cool x-ray shot of the trapdoor mechanism. I can't seem to find it but maybe somebody with better searching skills can.

 

/Woody

Edited by haywoody
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I look head on inside the mouth of the pens, this is pretty much what I see. On the left is the mechanism I have in the capless blue carbonesque which I received just over a week a go. The one on the right is the deep yellow from Japan which I received around June earlier this year.

 

post-11032-1230723618_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The technical terms for the springs are "coil spring" or "compression spring" for the cylindrical ones and "torsion spring" for the W shaped one. I don't have an explanation for why they would be different but either type seems to be right for the application. Maybe Pilot swaps them in and out of the assembly line at will or maybe they changed from one type to the other at some point in time.

/Woody

 

Thanks for the info, Haywoody! When I think about it, you perfectly described what I was trying to say.

 

As for the picture in your post, Milo, I have the exact opposite (your earlier yellow matches my earlier kasuri, your later kasuri matches my later yellow), so I am guessing Pilot switched their manufacturing at some point this year.

Well for you, if you wrestle on, for in persistency lies victory, and with the morning may come the wished-for blessing. But not always; there is a struggle with defeat which some of you will have to bear, and it will be well for you if you have cultivated a cheerful equanimity. Remember, too, that sometimes 'from our desolation only does the better life begin.' Even with disaster ahead, it is better to face them with a smile, and with the head erect, than to crouch at their approach. And, if the fight is for principle and justice, even when failure seems certain, where many have failed before, cling to your ideal, and, like Childe Roland before the dark tower, set the slug-horn to your lips, blow the challenge, and calmly await the conflict.

 

 

--"Aequanimitas" William Osler

Valedictory Address, University of Pennsylvania, May 1, 1889

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haywoody's explanations are very useful...thank you Haywoody!

 

Looking at the two mechanisms, the more recent one seems to me to be more sturdy...hence at least in my opinion, an improvement in the already awesome design!

:thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cools pics - I assume the top is a standard X-Ray. Is the second CT or MRI?

 

You're giving away your profession ;) My Dad is a radiologist.

 

PS, I'd love to see the whole pen like that!

Edited by Siv

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2752/4371168844_35ba5fb338.jpg

Danitrio Fellow, Nakaya Nutter, Sailor Sailor (ret), Visconti Venerator, Montegrappa Molester (in training), ConwayStewart Champion & Diplomat #77

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Asolutely amazing!!!

Thank you so much for those images antoniosz. These demonstrate the mechanism in the older of the two pens I mentioned above.

 

cheers,

Milo

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're giving away your profession ;) My Dad is a radiologist.

PS, I'd love to see the whole pen like that!

It is a microCT that can reach a pixel size of about 1 micron.

Because of the resolution the specimen size has to be small and fit within a cylinder of 6cm dia and 6cm height, so I can not fit the whole pen :(

I am not a doctor or a radiologist :) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, a week a go I bought another Capless Kasuri, this time in black, to give to my PhD professor. This one had the spring as per antoniosz's photos (compression spring). My Blue one has the other type of spring. I would definitely be interested in learning more. Do you think Pilot UK might help me out?

 

cheers,

Milo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Wile E Coyote and I had fun this morning. He supplied the VPs and I supplied the x-rays.

 

2008LE

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/2008LE.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/2008LE_0124.jpg

 

 

Fermo

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Fermo.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Fermo_0117.jpg

 

Raden

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Raden.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/azavalia/VP-xray/Raden_0078.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:notworthy1: Antoniosz...that is absolutely amazing. Your images show exactly what I was trying to explain before. Thank you so much for these. :thumbup:

cheers

Milo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amazing radiographs Antonios! Which spring design seems to be more reliable? I think the torsion design will be more resistant to the spring getting dislodged. What do the experts think?

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Antonios, THANK YOU for these! Wow, what great detail--this is even better than the cut-away shots we got from Pilot Pen Station. How did you do this? Did you have to remove the nose-cone section of the VP, or were you able to do it fully assembled?

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely appreciate not having to fully disassemble the pen. I thought that a partial tear down might be necessary for use with the equipment. But I'm glad that it was possible with the pen as-is.

 

As for design, I think the older coil spring design you see on the Raden is probably more reliable. You have a more even distribution of stress across the spring. But it means more metal. The newer design has a spring-lever type design. I could see over time a weakening taking place, as there is a lot of stress applied in one specific section of the spring. However, it is a cleaner design... I suspect the older design has a greater probability for attracting rust, as moisture gets trapped between the coils. Special forged stainless steel of sufficient thickness will simply not rust (as used on high quality knives), but for bendable metal I suspect that these springs are not completely impervious to rust.

Edited by MYU

[MYU's Pen Review Corner] | "The Common Ground" -- Jeffrey Small

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

The new design is harder to dislodge from the pen than the older type. I remember several people with the old type complaining that the spring popped out of their pen.

 

Dillon

Stolen: Aurora Optima Demonstrator Red ends Medium nib. Serial number 1216 and Aurora 98 Cartridge/Converter Black bark finish (Archivi Storici) with gold cap. Reward if found. Please contact me if you have seen these pens.

Please send vial orders and other messages to fpninkvials funny-round-mark-thing gmail strange-mark-thing com. My shop is open once again if you need help with your pen.

Will someone with the name of "Jay" who emailed me through the email system provide me an email address? There was no email address provided, so I can't write back.

Dillon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33554
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26728
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...