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Shearing my method for capring "swaging"


fountainbel

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Attached a picture showing my method for swaging loose cap rings.

I'm sure Ron uses more professional tools, but this approach works very well for me.

I use a standard ER25 tool spindle chuck, which takes collets from 2 to 16mm.( standard collet set 15 pieces, up going with 1mm)

The clamping range of the individual collets is 1mm, so using a 16mm collet one can clamp a 15mm shaft.

Most of the caps are within the 16mm range, for larger diameters one would have to buy a larger size of spindle chuck & collets.

I started using the collets directly on the cap rings, but- as expected- the results were not good: few of the lengthwise collet slots always marked the cap ring.

Coping with this problem, I installed a 1/2" wide steel spacer plate band (shim strip) - 0.07 mm thick in the collet, and this solved the marking problem

As shown in the drawing , the spacer sleeve overlaps approximately 90°, while the internal sleeve seam is made a an angle of approximately 60°.

I experienced that an internal angeled seam completely overcomes any marking risks.

During swaging the cap ring will more easily (slightly) protrude & deform at the overlap seam using a straight seam.

As always, your comments & thoughts are very welcome

 

Regards,Francis

 

 

 

 

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/foun...ringswaging.jpg

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Francis,

Are you able to use the same spacer sleeve for different diameters? That is to say, how tight is the 90 degree overlap? Would the same sleeve work for 15mm as 12 or 13 mm?

John

so many pens, so little time.......

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Hi John,

Thanks for your comment!

The length of the spacer band is not as critical, you surely can use the 90° overlap spacer band for a 15 mm cap diameter on a 13 mm cap.

As what concerns the thickness of the spacer band, the smaller the collet diameter, the more difficult it is to obtain roundness on the inserted band.Therefore I preferably use a 0.05mm steel spacer band on the smaller diameters.

 

One other thing I want to add is the fact that one can actually find a chuck & 15 pcs collet set on EBAY for aproximately $50.00 . The seller is ctcoolseller ( no affiliation with this guy)

Francis

 

 

Francis,

Are you able to use the same spacer sleeve for different diameters? That is to say, how tight is the 90 degree overlap? Would the same sleeve work for 15mm as 12 or 13 mm?

John

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Francis,

 

Can you explain in layman's terms how the swager works? I've never understood how swaging makes a solid ring of metal shrink in diameter. thanks, doug

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Hi Doug,

The workpiece ( the loose cap ring) is forced through a confining die ( the steel band in the collet in our case ) to reduce its diameter.

In fact the process is a sort of controlled shrinking, in which -at least theoretically - the thickness of the cap ring will somewhat increase, since its material volume remains equal.

In our situation - the cap band being very thin - there are surely limitations to this "shrinking"

Loose cap rings mostly only need a diameter reduction around 0.1- 0.2 mm to "settle" back firmly in the cap groove.

This will normally work fine, since the ring will contact its back-up surface- the cap groove - before loosing its cylindrical form I expect however a 0.4 mm diameter reduction will be problematic, since the ring would bend inwards & deform before contacting the cap groove.

I hope this clarifies the process a little.

Regards, Francis

 

Francis,

 

Can you explain in layman's terms how the swager works? I've never understood how swaging makes a solid ring of metal shrink in diameter. thanks, doug

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  • 7 months later...
One other thing I want to add is the fact that one can actually find a chuck & 15 pcs collet set on EBAY for aproximately $50.00 . The seller is ctcoolseller ( no affiliation with this guy)

Francis

 

I could not find seller ctcoolseller on eBay; suspecting a typo, I looked for similar names and found ctctoolseller offering the recommended items. Must order chuck and collets set seperately; but, total cost is about the same as mentioned above.

 

Having no steel sheets on hand, I'll need to find a source for small pieces of the recommended .07mm and .05mm sheet steel to make the spacers.

Edited by lallin
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Thanks, Francis, for sharing this. Am I correct in believing that the method you describe assumes that there is already a groove on the cap into which the band will fit after swaging? What if you were making a completely new cap without a groove? Will swaging create a groove for the band, or do you have to cut a groove first before swaging a band into it?

 

Many thanks again,

Gerry Berg

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Hi Gerry,

There has to be a groove in the cap in which you can "swage" the ring. (ring 0.1/0.2 mm smaller as groove)

You could swage on a non grooved cap, but then the material thickness of the ring will lay fully above the cap.

In the meantime I've made more tests, and I don't use a steel spacer in the collets anymore;

It is however important to buy collets with the smallest possible axial flexibility grooves in them.

My set of collets has axial flexibility grooves 0.7mm wide.

Practice learned me that I can swage directly on the ring if I make the ring wall at least 0.4mm, avoiding penetration of the ring in the axial flexibility grooves of the collet.

 

Francis

 

Thanks, Francis, for sharing this. Am I correct in believing that the method you describe assumes that there is already a groove on the cap into which the band will fit after swaging? What if you were making a completely new cap without a groove? Will swaging create a groove for the band, or do you have to cut a groove first before swaging a band into it?

 

Many thanks again,

Gerry Berg

Edited by fountainbel
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Honestly, good brain and good tool to use. That call for a push for clearing dent IN a cap??????? Soon.

Keep up the information coming in. :thumbup:

 

Attached a picture showing my method for swaging loose cap rings.

I'm sure Ron uses more professional tools, but this approach works very well for me.

I use a standard ER25 tool spindle chuck, which takes collets from 2 to 16mm.( standard collet set 15 pieces, up going with 1mm)

The clamping range of the individual collets is 1mm, so using a 16mm collet one can clamp a 15mm shaft.

Most of the caps are within the 16mm range, for larger diameters one would have to buy a larger size of spindle chuck & collets.

I started using the collets directly on the cap rings, but- as expected- the results were not good: few of the lengthwise collet slots always marked the cap ring.

Coping with this problem, I installed a 1/2" wide steel spacer plate band (shim strip) - 0.07 mm thick in the collet, and this solved the marking problem

As shown in the drawing , the spacer sleeve overlaps approximately 90°, while the internal sleeve seam is made a an angle of approximately 60°.

I experienced that an internal angeled seam completely overcomes any marking risks.

During swaging the cap ring will more easily (slightly) protrude & deform at the overlap seam using a straight seam.

As always, your comments & thoughts are very welcome

 

Regards,Francis

 

 

 

 

 

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/foun...ringswaging.jpg

 

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Thanks, Francis. This is an operation that I will leave to you! For those of us who are not journeyman machinists, it's nice to see the kind of tecniques behind the art.

Gerry

 

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Thanks, Francis. This is an operation that I will leave to you! For those of us who are not journeyman machinists, it's nice to see the kind of tecniques behind the art.

Gerry

I'm not sure you meant "journeyman"...

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Thanks, Francis. This is an operation that I will leave to you! For those of us who are not journeyman machinists, it's nice to see the kind of tecniques behind the art.

Gerry

I'm not sure you meant "journeyman"...

 

--Daniel

Professional, no? One who has advanced beyond the status of apprentice.

Gerry

 

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Thanks, Francis. This is an operation that I will leave to you! For those of us who are not journeyman machinists, it's nice to see the kind of tecniques behind the art.

Gerry

I'm not sure you meant "journeyman"...

Professional, no? One who has advanced beyond the status of apprentice.

Gerry

The narrow definition is for a tradesman who has indeed advanced beyond the status of mere apprentice, but who is not a master, but the term is more generally used to imply one who is competent but, pointedly, not exceptional; one who can do the job but not excel. In that sense it not a compliement.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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I meant it as a compliment to Francis, and I'm sure it was understood that way. The common meaning is professional, reliable, competent. If you prefer narrowness, suit yourself.

Gerry

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I meant it as a compliment to Francis, and I'm sure it was understood that way.

I assumed you meant it as a compliment, as evidenced by my statement "I'm not sure you meant 'journeyman'", because "journeyman" is not ordinarily a compliment in its broader use as it carries a connotation of unexceptional skill.

 

The common meaning is professional, reliable, competent. If you prefer narrowness, suit yourself.

I think you mis-read my post; the common meaning (as opposed to the narrow meaning within the apprenticeship system of a worker who has completed an apprenticeship but who is below a master) is one who is competent but unexceptional. The term is often encountered, for example, when discussing athletes who are adequate to fill a role but who do not excel (and who, as a result, often find themselves traded around quite a bit). I don't "prefer" either meaning; I merely observe that the latter meaning is the commonly-understood one when not speaking about the apprenticeship system, and that it is not considered a compliment. The narrow meaning is somewhat less criticizing as it does not carry the clear connotation of mediocrity, but it is also not a compliment per se.

 

From Dictionary.com, based on the Random House Dictionary:

 

1. a person who has served an apprenticeship at a trade or handicraft and is certified to work at it assisting or under another person.

 

2. any experienced, competent but routine worker or performer

 

From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

 

1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ

 

2. An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker

 

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

 

1. a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day

 

2. an experienced reliable worker, athlete, or performer especially as distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful

 

(Emphasis added)

 

A typical use:

 

"DaVanon is nothing more than a journeyman outfielder at this point in his career. Ignore him in all Fantasy leagues right now." (Analysis of a baseball player at cbssports.com)

 

I understand that you may simply be unfamiliar with the common meaning of the term, which is why you used it as you did.

 

--Daniel

Edited by kirchh

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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Must still be winter, with so many prickly folks on the interwebs --

 

As a writer I'm here to tell you that definitions change much more quickly than Webster can track -- the change may be regional or global, pertain to a specific usage of a word, or to every possible use --

 

Some years ago, Eric Clapton had an album (you remember those, yes?) entitled "Journeyman." WHile dictionaries galore may not agree, I believe that, by any measure, EC is a heck of a guitarist, and I'd be flattered, indeed, if someone refered to me using the same term.

 

The AM version is that "common" meaning changes quickly -- and are not so common any more.

 

;-}

 

 

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Must still be winter, with so many prickly folks on the interwebs --

 

As a writer I'm here to tell you that definitions change much more quickly than Webster can track -- the change may be regional or global, pertain to a specific usage of a word, or to every possible use --

 

Some years ago, Eric Clapton had an album (you remember those, yes?) entitled "Journeyman." WHile dictionaries galore may not agree, I believe that, by any measure, EC is a heck of a guitarist, and I'd be flattered, indeed, if someone refered to me using the same term.

 

The AM version is that "common" meaning changes quickly -- and are not so common any more.

 

;-}

A perusal of a variety of older materials will show that the meaning of "journeyman" has not changed in its essential sense; I would be interested in examples to the contrary that show that it earlier meant something other than one who is competent but not a master.

 

The title of the Clapton album is surely not intended to be a self-bestowed compliment, but rather a modest self-assessment of one who knows there is much more to learn about his craft; if you've read Clapton's descriptions of his own abilities, you will recognize that sentiment. So the facts on the record would contradict your belief that "by any measure, EC is a heck of a guitarist", as EC himself would not be so presumptuous as to proclaim that in an album title.

 

If you'd be flattered to be called a journeyman, you simply do not know the connotation of the term, I'm afraid.

 

--Daniel

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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I am familar with Clapton's take on his talents -- he is certainly modest to a fault.

 

And, as a brief example of how things can go astray, you would be mistaken in assuming that I don't understand the term. I do. And it would be flattering to me. Perhaps not to you, but to me, in many areas, most assuredly.

 

I'll not give specific examples, as they would not change anyone's mind (something that seldom happens, in my experience, and less so on the internet) -- that would simply further the circling into a black hole conversation that this has become.

 

I apologize for furthering that kind of thing -- I generally try to avoid it.

 

 

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I am familar with Clapton's take on his talents -- he is certainly modest to a fault.

Then we can agree that it is unlikely that he would put out an album with a title that indicated that he felt he was "a heck of a guitarist". Thus, the claim that the example of that album's title is indicative of the complimentary nature of the term "journeyman" is without basis.

 

And, as a brief example of how things can go astray, you would be mistaken in assuming that I don't understand the term. I do. And it would be flattering to me. Perhaps not to you, but to me, in many areas, most assuredly.

Certainly relative to being an amateur or apprentice, it is a higher assessment, but in an absolute sense it is not used as a compliment.

 

I'll not give specific examples, as they would not change anyone's mind (something that seldom happens, in my experience, and less so on the internet) -- that would simply further the circling into a black hole conversation that this has become.

This is a very disappointing cop-out, frankly, as you have taken a position, implied that you have the references to support it, but you then decline to provide that support, citing a blanket negative generalization about your audience.

 

I apologize for furthering that kind of thing -- I generally try to avoid it.

If you're not prepared to follow through, it is best avoided.

 

--Daniel

 

"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

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