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organic inks, such a thing?



Goshzilla

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I know that to some extent they use petrol based oils for inks, and that carbon has usually been the pigment in india inks, but are there organic inks made from soy bean oil, or vegetable oil? Are there any organic inks, as in made from a renewable resource?

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Petroleum is organic. Technically, it's a renewable resource, just not renewable in a short time span.

 

Oil-based inks aren't used in fountain pens, and while they are all organic (in the chemistry sense of the term), not all of them are "organic" in the sense I suspect you meant.

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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My simple, and probably incorrect, understanding is that the dyes in FP ink are based on aniline dyes.

 

If there are any organic chemists out there, can you synthesise aniline dyes, or their functional equivalents, from organically grown fruit and vegies?

 

And you would have to stick to an all organic process, no slipping in any inorganic solvents like ether. All solvents, like ethanol, would have to come from organically grown sugar cane/corn, naturally fermented and distilled by the heat of the sun.

 

Just think of Capsicum Red, Liquorice Black, Carrot Orange, Blueberry Blue.

 

 

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“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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If there are any organic chemists out there, can you synthesise aniline dyes, or their functional equivalents, from organically grown fruit and vegies?

Aniline, phenylamine or aminobenzene is an organic compound with the formula C6H7N.

They're generally made from benzenes, btw. The toxicology section makes me not want to play with them.

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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From the Wiki article above:

 

"First, benzene is nitrated using a concentrated mixture of nitric acid and sulfuric acid at 50 to 60 °C, which gives nitrobenzene. In the second step, the nitrobenzene is hydrogenated, typically at 600 °C in presence of a nickel catalyst to give aniline. As an alternative, aniline is also prepared from phenol and ammonia, the phenol being derived from cumene. [1]"

 

 

 

The second method might hold some promise. Ammonia and phenol (carbolic acid) both occur in nature, albeit phenol occurs in small quantities in some plants, it does occur.

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Phenol's incredibly nasty stuff, though. They use it to destroy the cell walls when isolating DNA. I simply don't get the phenol cough sprays and would never use them.

 

I should add that ammonia's certainly no walk in the park, either.

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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Phenol's incredibly nasty stuff, though. They use it to destroy the cell walls when isolating DNA. I simply don't get the phenol cough sprays and would never use them.

 

I should add that ammonia's certainly no walk in the park, either.

 

Oh that's true. Phenol makes a fine toxic agent. Injected phenol was used by some folks I won't mention to exterminate people. It also has a number of clinical uses. But the original question was about "organic" inks, not "safe and easy to make" inks. Mother nature produces all manner of nasty substances. Ammonia and HS come to mind. Arsenic? Mercury? Cadmium? ;)

 

Or this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/1175548908_38d361b5cd.jpg

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

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I know that to some extent they use petrol based oils for inks, and that carbon has usually been the pigment in india inks, but are there organic inks made from soy bean oil, or vegetable oil? Are there any organic inks, as in made from a renewable resource?

 

SOmeone else will have to dig up the reference but I remember there being a Japanese squid ink for FPs and I can't be certain but Herbin uses some pretty organic materials for their inks.

 

Kurt

 

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encephalartos
I know that to some extent they use petrol based oils for inks, and that carbon has usually been the pigment in india inks, but are there organic inks made from soy bean oil, or vegetable oil? Are there any organic inks, as in made from a renewable resource?

 

The Los Angeles Times is supposed to be printed with soy ink (soy bean oil) because we are

talking about printer's ink here, which is pasty stuff that comes in cans or vats and does not FLOW.

It is a thick paste, for presses, not for pens. Maybe you could use it if you were doing woodcuts

or other kinds of print-making. There's a different for stone lithography, which is a chemical resist

process (treating the stone so ink sticks to only some parts of it.) Intaglio (etching, engraving,

drypoint on copper) has its own kind of ink. (Check out an art supply dealer called Daniel

Smith.) All of these oily type inks are cleaned up with solvents, like mineral spirits. I don't

think they distill the solvents from anything but petroleum. For cleaning this ink from your hands,

there's a lanolin or other greased based cleaner like the one used by garage mechanics.

 

India ink is water-based with some shellac, but it clogs fountain pens.

 

There isn't any oil in fountain pen inks, because they are water based, and it would float

to the top of the bottle and not stay mixed in the pen.

 

Herbin claims to use their own natural colors, but what they are, other than being dissolved

in water, seems to be proprietary. They don't have any kind of certified organic label like

the stand at the farmers market.

 

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Let me re-phrase the original question --

 

Let's use the capitalised word Organic to denote chemicals made from naturally-grown organisms following the Organically grown ethos (which I will not begin to endeavour to define, not being of the Organic Faith, so to speak).

Let's use the uncapitalised word organic to denote biological things or organic chemistry in the traditional sense.

 

Is it possible to create inks using the techniques of organic chemistry, but following the Organic Ethos, with chemicals from Organically grown plants and animals?

 

What dyes can be extracted, such as Royal Purple from Organically grown murex shells? Can you extract Capsicum Red using Organic chemistry and turn it into a practical red ink? (Just imagine marking papers with Capsicum Red).

 

What organic solvents and other reagents do you need, and can you make them using Organic techniques (e.g. ethanol from Organically sugar cane)?

 

Food (Organic of course) for thought.

 

 

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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Or this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

 

Oh my! Solanum dulcamara. Bittersweet Nightshade. I wonder who tasted it and lived long enough to give it the name.

 

Paddler

Edited by Paddler

Can a calculator understand a cash register?

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Or this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

 

Oh my! Solanum dulcamara. Bittersweet Nightshade. I wonder who tasted it and lived long enough to give it the name.

 

Paddler

 

Indeed. It must have been someone with a high resistance to atropine. :ltcapd:

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Let me re-phrase the original question --

 

Let's use the capitalised word Organic to denote chemicals made from naturally-grown organisms following the Organically grown ethos (which I will not begin to endeavour to define, not being of the Organic Faith, so to speak).

Let's use the uncapitalised word organic to denote biological things or organic chemistry in the traditional sense.

 

Is it possible to create inks using the techniques of organic chemistry, but following the Organic Ethos, with chemicals from Organically grown plants and animals?

 

What dyes can be extracted, such as Royal Purple from Organically grown murex shells? Can you extract Capsicum Red using Organic chemistry and turn it into a practical red ink? (Just imagine marking papers with Capsicum Red).

 

What organic solvents and other reagents do you need, and can you make them using Organic techniques (e.g. ethanol from Organically sugar cane)?

 

Food (Organic of course) for thought.

 

If you suppose that ink is just dye in water and you don't care about stuff growing in your bottle then you could make a totally organic ink. Actually I think you could even get some biocides from crushed insects. And a good number of natural dyestuff in food is extracted from bugs and plants.

 

So I'd say yes it is possible.\

 

Kurt

 

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Let me re-phrase the original question --

 

Let's use the capitalised word Organic to denote chemicals made from naturally-grown organisms following the Organically grown ethos (which I will not begin to endeavour to define, not being of the Organic Faith, so to speak).

Let's use the uncapitalised word organic to denote biological things or organic chemistry in the traditional sense.

 

Is it possible to create inks using the techniques of organic chemistry, but following the Organic Ethos, with chemicals from Organically grown plants and animals?

 

What dyes can be extracted, such as Royal Purple from Organically grown murex shells? Can you extract Capsicum Red using Organic chemistry and turn it into a practical red ink? (Just imagine marking papers with Capsicum Red).

 

What organic solvents and other reagents do you need, and can you make them using Organic techniques (e.g. ethanol from Organically sugar cane)?

 

Food (Organic of course) for thought.

 

Well in looking at the second approach for making aniline, what immediately came to mind was to make ammonia from urine, extract phenol from grape skins, and away you go. I doesn't get much more natural than that.

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Or this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

 

Oh my! Solanum dulcamara. Bittersweet Nightshade. I wonder who tasted it and lived long enough to give it the name.

 

Paddler

 

Indeed. It must have been someone with a high resistance to atropine. :ltcapd:

 

Don't forget that because of it's hallucinogenic properties people have used this for fun!

 

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If you suppose that ink is just dye in water and you don't care about stuff growing in your bottle then you could make a totally organic ink. Actually I think you could even get some biocides from crushed insects. And a good number of natural dyestuff in food is extracted from bugs and plants.

 

So I'd say yes it is possible.\

 

Kurt

Some people don't like spraying their tomatoes because of the toxic chemicals. The point is, if you spray your tomatoes, at least you know what biocide you are putting on them. If you don't, then the tomatoes make their own nasty insecticidal chemicals, and you don't know what they are making.

 

 

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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Or this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

 

Oh my! Solanum dulcamara. Bittersweet Nightshade. I wonder who tasted it and lived long enough to give it the name.

 

Paddler

 

Indeed. It must have been someone with a high resistance to atropine. :ltcapd:

 

Don't forget that because of it's hallucinogenic properties people have used this for fun!

Over here, we just smoke cane toads...

 

 

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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I know that to some extent they use petrol based oils for inks, and that carbon has usually been the pigment in india inks, but are there organic inks made from soy bean oil, or vegetable oil? Are there any organic inks, as in made from a renewable resource?

 

J. Herbin uses vegetable dyes. Of course, there's also the humecant, surfactant, and fungicide to consider...

 

 

...this pretty thing that grows abundantly in my back yard:

 

Quite deadly but as natural and organic as can be. Munch a leaf and kiss yourself goodbye. :roflmho:

I must have some sort of resistance, or consistent luck. I've had so much of that sap on my hands!

 

-- Brian

fpn_1375035941__postcard_swap.png * * * "Don't neglect to write me several times from different places when you may."
-- John Purdue (1863)

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Do you mean like 'free range' inks? :roflmho:

That is an EEEEVIL thing to suggest to a science fiction writer. I'm stealing it.

deirdre.net

"Heck we fed a thousand dollar pen to a chicken because we could." -- FarmBoy, about Pen Posse

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