Precious resin, ebonite, cotton resin, acrylic resin ...

[davidv7]

In my humble opinion the ebonite is a superior material to palstic for feeds (I could be totally wrong but it is my experience).

I have an Aurora and an Omas and two Deltas with ebonite feed which write seemlessly.

 

How is celluloid standing in this comparison, I think it is even more brittle and delicate, and with time it decades or not?

And it is plastic right, the first one - the grandfather of plastics?

[sheehmi]

<!--quoteo(post=483932:date=Jan 19 2008, 07:40 PM:name=Chemyst)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chemyst @ Jan 19 2008, 07:40 PM) 483932[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=483914:date=Jan 19 2008, 02:26 PM:name=bgray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bgray @ Jan 19 2008, 02:26 PM) 483914[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, ebonite is not plastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ebonite is plastic in that it is a synthetic polymer. I'll grant you, it isn't PVC or injection mold plastic, but plastic it is. Ebonite was developed to replace ebony. The process involves inserting a number of sulphur linkages into rubber to create a more structured material.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

Gotcha...thank you.

Stated differently, in fountain pen land, ebonite does not feel like or perform like plastic and is highly regarded for its non-plasticy characteristics

[Scribblesoften]

So where does Bakelite fall in this discussion. I understand it was a synthetic with natural ingredients. Were there bakelite fountain pens?

[mirosc]

Were there bakelite fountain pens?

Some: Kaweco, National, Greif, Montblanc, Pelikan.

But bakelite was not very popular: unable to polish for a nice shine, difficult to produce (hot presses), impossible to repair after broken.

They soon stopped producing bakelite pens, despite bakelite being very durable.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Were there bakelite fountain pens?

Some: Kaweco, National, Greif, Montblanc, Pelikan.

But bakelite was not very popular: unable to polish for a nice shine, difficult to produce (hot presses), impossible to repair after broken.

They soon stopped producing bakelite pens, despite bakelite being very durable.

 

Durable with the proper fillers; old telephones are a great example. Those fillers tend to be opaque, though, and one of the things the early adopters were after was ink-windows. Clear bakelite, as I understand it, combines the flexibilty of glass and the brittleness of hard rubber I believe Parker had a bakelite pen as well... for a short time.

[raging.dragon]

Were there bakelite fountain pens?

Some: Kaweco, National, Greif, Montblanc, Pelikan.

But bakelite was not very popular: unable to polish for a nice shine, difficult to produce (hot presses), impossible to repair after broken.

They soon stopped producing bakelite pens, despite bakelite being very durable.

 

Durable with the proper fillers; old telephones are a great example. Those fillers tend to be opaque, though, and one of the things the early adopters were after was ink-windows. Clear bakelite, as I understand it, combines the flexibilty of glass and the brittleness of hard rubber I believe Parker had a bakelite pen as well... for a short time.

 

In the mid 1990's Visconti made a modern LE in Bakelite:

 

http://www.visconti.it/museum/scheda.php?idelemento=70

[bunnspecial]

 

Durable with the proper fillers; old telephones are a great example. Those fillers tend to be opaque, though, and one of the things the early adopters were after was ink-windows. Clear bakelite, as I understand it, combines the flexibilty of glass and the brittleness of hard rubber I believe Parker had a bakelite pen as well... for a short time.

 

At least here in the US, very few telephones were bakelite.

 

Western Electric(the manufacturing arm of Bell Telephone) didn't consider it durable enough for telephone bodies. Up until the late 1950s, plastic Western Electric telephones were made of a type of fairly soft thermoplastic whose name escapes me at the moment. After this, they were made of ABS.

 

Receivers used on wall and candlestick telephones were ebonite, and the early series handsets as used on cradle telephones were ebonite as well. Bakelite was used for black handsets from the late 1930s through the 1950s.

 

At one time, I had a fairly sizeable telephone collection. I've downsized it somewhat, but still retain some. I have some bakelite telephones from other makers(notably Automatic ELectric), and by and large have found them to be less durable than their thermoplastic equivalents. Also, one notable issue with bakelite is that, when relatively unused it has a high luster. Use, however, tends to expose the fillers(usually wood flour) and it will never take a shine again.

[Trillium]

I have to ask a question here. Let me preface by saying....

I am a woodturner, Ive made my share of kit BPs and FPs, most of which have left me wanting in the design department. I have grown to love the various pens available and popular here on FPN, but I am really mystified with the absense of exotic woods. I continue to end up shaking my head at the thought of "replacing ebony" with ebonite when I personally know the cost of full retail Gabon Ebony Pen Blanks. What gives???? My question is this;

Why is it that none of the big name manufacturers offer real ebony, or Red Mallee Burl, or Buckeye Burl.... or any handsome woods that would, in my mind, more reasonably justify "dear prices", than "plastics" of any ilk? I could understand sections and feeds etc being ebonite in the interest of brittleness in such small parts, but bodies and caps..nope, I dont get it at all. Any ideas?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Trillium

[jar]

I have to ask a question here. Let me preface by saying....

I am a woodturner, Ive made my share of kit BPs and FPs, most of which have left me wanting in the design department. I have grown to love the various pens available and popular here on FPN, but I am really mystified with the absense of exotic woods. I continue to end up shaking my head at the thought of "replacing ebony" with ebonite when I personally know the cost of full retail Gabon Ebony Pen Blanks. What gives???? Why is it that none of the big name manufacturers offer real ebony, or Red Mallee Burl, or Buckeye Burl.... or any handsome woods that would, in my mind, more reasonably justify "dear prices", than "plastics" of any ilk?

 

There have been quite a few fountain pens with exotic wood bodies, but they haven't ever really sold well and they have had problems with both staining and cracking.

[Postscript]

Hmm... I think I will pull the trigger on a Yard-O-Led pen. Sterling silver is just that; silver.

 

Post Script

[Trillium]

Application of laquer could mitigate staining and cracking.... I do it routinely. Of course none of my wood pens are decades old either..... I doubt that any of my wood pens have shattered against the floor. But to be fair...perhaps the shattering we have heard so much about is occuring on top of that White Mountain... in the winter. Didnt mean to derail the thread. Sorry.

[markofp]

As someone above guessed, Montblanc "precious resin" is simply plastic with some glass threads mixed in to make it shiny. Not very good or particularly strong plastic at that. Never saw one shatter, but I have seen them crack.

 

I find the whole thing infuriating and insulting, and what is worse is how tightly they cling to the deception. I once brought a Generations Rollerball to an MB boutique to see about having it engraved. The guy says to me that it isn't possible, because the pen is only "semi-precious resin, not fully precious". What he meant was that the plastic was too thin. I think he could tell by the way I was looking at him that I wasn't buying it, because he handed the pen back to me and moved away quickly.

[koa]

The guy says to me that it isn't possible, because the pen is only "semi-precious resin, not fully precious". What he meant was that the plastic was too thin. I think he could tell by the way I was looking at him that I wasn't buying it, because he handed the pen back to me and moved away quickly.

 

Just, WOW! Semi-precious resin!! This opens up a whole range of sub-elite marketing! But somehow, I just can't see Gollum saying, "My semi-preciouuuus!" On the other hand, can't see him saying "my fully precious" either. I am sticking with the kitten toes theory. High moral cost, but worth it for fully precious resin. :blink:

[Ernst Bitterman]

 

Durable with the proper fillers; old telephones are a great example. Those fillers tend to be opaque, though, and one of the things the early adopters were after was ink-windows. Clear bakelite, as I understand it, combines the flexibilty of glass and the brittleness of hard rubber I believe Parker had a bakelite pen as well... for a short time.

 

At least here in the US, very few telephones were bakelite.

 

Western Electric(the manufacturing arm of Bell Telephone) didn't consider it durable enough for telephone bodies...

 

Alas, a cherished illusion, shattered! I'll take solace from being less worried about the potential destruction of my Uniphone No.2

[raging.dragon]

I have to ask a question here. Let me preface by saying....

I am a woodturner, Ive made my share of kit BPs and FPs, most of which have left me wanting in the design department. I have grown to love the various pens available and popular here on FPN, but I am really mystified with the absense of exotic woods. I continue to end up shaking my head at the thought of "replacing ebony" with ebonite when I personally know the cost of full retail Gabon Ebony Pen Blanks. What gives???? Why is it that none of the big name manufacturers offer real ebony, or Red Mallee Burl, or Buckeye Burl.... or any handsome woods that would, in my mind, more reasonably justify "dear prices", than "plastics" of any ilk?

 

I don't like the thin metal sections found on the vast majority of kit pens. I'd be very much interested in a non-kit turned wood pen of MB149 or Dolce Vita Oversize proportions. OMAS, Platinum/Nakaya and Pilot have made several pens with wood caps and barrels and Faber Castel are making several with wood overlay barrels.

 

I have OMAS 360's in ebony and snakewood. In both cases the wood is unfinished (a bad move on OMAS's part...). The snakewood rollerball had a cracked blind cap when I bought it (the seller disclosed this, so no harm, no foul there), though I'm not too worried about it as the blind cap is solidly glued to a structural metal plug. The ebony fountain pen has two or three hairline cracks entirly through the thin solid wood cap. I'll have to fix these before they spread... This one was not cracked when I recieved, instead cracking when the humdity dropped this winter.

 

Application of laquer could mitigate staining and cracking.... I do it routinely. Of course none of my wood pens are decades old either..... I doubt that any of my wood pens have shattered against the floor. But to be fair...perhaps the shattering we have heard so much about is occuring on top of that White Mountain... in the winter. Didnt mean to derail the thread. Sorry.

 

A thick, polished, coat of good quality marine varnish would look nice while protecting against both cracking due to humidity changes and colour changes due to exposure to UV light.

Edited January 20, 2012 by raging.dragon

[Inkling13]

QUOTE(Deirdre @ Jan 19 2008, 03:04 PM) 483955[/snapback]

It's not synthetic, but I'll grant you that it's semi-synthetic and thus still plastic. Ebonite is pretty much in the same category as rayon and lyocell.

Any ebonite from after the second World War is almost certainly fully synthetic, a petroleum derivative. Any ebonite pens you may buy today, perhaps with the exception of some high-end artisanal Danitrios, are synthetic. The cost of harvesting rubber, purifying it, and then treating it at a chemical plant is price prohibitive vs just synthesizing the whole item in-house.

On the contrary, ebonite is still natural latex based. Especially if you order NYH ebonite. See here: http://www.nyh.de/english/ebonitstaub.php Edited December 23, 2013 by Inkling13

[georges zaslavsky]

vegetal resin is made by Omas only and it is nice as celluloid

[raging.dragon]

vegetal resin is made by Omas only and it is nice as celluloid

 

I'm fairly certain it's cellulose acetate or another cellulosic plastic closely related to celluloid.

Edited January 2, 2014 by raging.dragon

[watch_art]

where do the Indian companies get their vegetal resin from then? Surely it's not made ONLY by Omas.