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How to determine production date on a #146


talkinghead

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Hi all,

 

New to the forum, just made my first post in another thread concerning dating a #149. I was wondering if there were any other articles or references that would help me date/year of production of MB #146s, like the Pentrace article on #149's. I know from reading the referenced articles here that true vintage #146's have the model number engraved on the pen, and that the older/vintage 146's stopped being produce by 1960. They returned to production, from what I gather, in the late 1970's or in 1980, yes? Do we know when the ink window went from a clear blue to the current striped window? What about the piston threads..when was the transition from black plastic to brass. What about the engraving on the clip ring..Germany to W. Germany? (this one confuses me as it seems more modern pens have the W. Germany, which is after reunification?). I know that a serial number will date a pen from 1991 and later. What I'm looking for I guess is what makes a #146 from:

1) the late 70's

2) the 80's

3) the 90's

 

Thanks in advance for help or opinions.

 

I get tons of info from this forum, and now that I have contracted the "collecting bug" I read these forums daily!!!

 

Rick

MY-stair-shtook eyn-HOON-dairt noyn und FEART-seeg (Meisterstuck #149)

"the last pen I bought is the next to the last pen I will ever buy.."---jar

WTB: Sheaffer OS Balance with FLEX nibs

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Rick-

 

We had a discussion about dating 146s a couple weeks ago. The thread titles should be similar, although you may have to go to the second or third pages to find them. If you have problems finding them, PM me, and I will resurrect the discussion. To tired to mine them up tonight.

 

Eric

Hard times don't last, but hard people do.

 

Thank a Veteran.

 

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Hi Eric,

 

I perused almost all the threads with MB 146 in them...gleaned some info..but was still confused. I recently just bought a pen from Norbert Otto (penprinzess on ebay), and just asked his help. Here is is reply to me questions: (his replies in Blue)

Hi Norbert,

 

I just bought another pen from you! I hope you don’t mind me asking you a few questions about dating/production dates for Meisterstuck 146’s, as I endeavor to expand my vintage collection. Dating Pelikans seems to be much easier! I have looked online at Fountainpen network and penboard.de, but can’t seem to find consensus answers.

 

I know that the true vintage models will have the 146 engraved/stamped on the piston filler end of the barrel. YES!! These are pens made before 1960. YES !!! As I understand it, the 146 was taken out of production then and not returned until the late 1970’s is that correct? YES !!! My questions then are how to identify pens made after the reintroduction?

 

Do the 70’s and early 80’s pens have a monotone nib and a clear blue ink view window? Yes this is absolutely right !!!

When did they change to bi-color nibs and the clear, striped ink view window? Montblanc started with these changes in the early 1990´s.

Can I date the pen based on if Germany or W. Germany is engraved on the clip ring. ( This is really confusing because from I have read the earlier pens have Germany and the later pens have W. Germany. It seems like this should be reversed, in regards to date of reunification)? It is absolutely clear that pens before the reunification in the 1980´s are marked with W. Germany. Later pens are marked Germany only and have the Serial no on the clip ring as well.

When did the brass sleeves on the piston threads start?

 

I know that if there is a serial number on the clip ring, that this dates the pen from 1991 to present, correct? YES !!!!

And is the “Pix” engraved under the clip started in 2000? YES !!! It was made while the trade mark for PIX had to be renewed.

Thanks for any help you can provide. You have a great reputation amongst the Fountain pen message boards, and in my dealings with you purchasing pens, I truly respect your opinion.

 

Oh and can these same dating clues be applied to Meisterstuck #149? Yes it is the same whit all sizes of the Meisterstück series, including 142, 144, 146 and 149. until the late 1950´s we have had special versions for export marked Masterpiece on the cap ring instead of Meisterstück!!!

 

Wow, the Germany/W. Germany comment has thrown me...The wall fell in Nov. '89 and reunification was Oct. '90. Not sure what to think about that...goes against what the Pentrace article states, but he is a Montblanc expert.....

MY-stair-shtook eyn-HOON-dairt noyn und FEART-seeg (Meisterstuck #149)

"the last pen I bought is the next to the last pen I will ever buy.."---jar

WTB: Sheaffer OS Balance with FLEX nibs

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  • 7 months later...

My 146 is also an enigma, date-wise: it has a clear grey/blue window, a two-tone, 14K nib, "W.-GERMANY"and a Serial number on the clip..... ????

Edited by rogerb

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

 

Don Marquis

US humorist (1878 - 1937)

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Normally the 146s having clear grey blue window are the 146s of the 70's and they should have a monotone rose gold nib. The clip cap it should be written germany and not w-germany unless it is replacement one and same thing for the nib. The modern two tone nibs are made in 14kt 585 since 1993-1994 tough during the 80's the 146 was available with a 18ct 750 yellow gold nib. The 146 with clear ink windows appeared in the late of 1976-1977.

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

 

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Normally the 146s having clear grey blue window are the 146s of the 70's and they should have a monotone rose gold nib. The clip cap it should be written germany and not w-germany unless it is replacement one and same thing for the nib. The modern two tone nibs are made in 14kt 585 since 1993-1994 tough during the 80's the 146 was available with a 18ct 750 yellow gold nib. The 146 with clear ink windows appeared in the late of 1976-1977.

 

 

George:

 

I bought my 146 in 1987 and it has the blue/grey clear window, but it has the monotone yellow gold 14k 585 nib, not the two tone. I don't recall MB offering "options" of a two tone nib, but I am getting older and my memory ain't what it used to be :). As an FYI, the clip cap is stamped germany, not w. germany.

 

Andy W.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/weissela/David%20Oscarson/th_nibovercapII.jpg[/url]
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Normally the 146s having clear grey blue window are the 146s of the 70's and they should have a monotone rose gold nib. The clip cap it should be written germany and not w-germany unless it is replacement one and same thing for the nib. The modern two tone nibs are made in 14kt 585 since 1993-1994 tough during the 80's the 146 was available with a 18ct 750 yellow gold nib. The 146 with clear ink windows appeared in the late of 1976-1977.

 

 

George:

 

I bought my 146 in 1987 and it has the blue/grey clear window, but it has the monotone yellow gold 14k 585 nib, not the two tone. I don't recall MB offering "options" of a two tone nib, but I am getting older and my memory ain't what it used to be :). As an FYI, the clip cap is stamped germany, not w. germany.

 

Andy W.

Your pen is certainly an older stock 146. Because in 1986 the firm switched to the new "precious resin" and clear windows were continuing their appearance as they were reintroduced in 1976-1977 . Concerning the nib, I said that the 14k585 duotone nib appeared in 1993-1994. The nib in the 80's was a yellow gold available in 14cts for US markets and 18cts for European markets.

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

 

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From the 90s, may I offer you this:

 

Clip-ring Code Number PM1262550 means 1997.

 

Sorry to repeat myself. I looked for +146 +date in a Search here and found >10 pages of posts but not this one.

 

Mike

Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)

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Normally the 146s having clear grey blue window are the 146s of the 70's and they should have a monotone rose gold nib. The clip cap it should be written germany and not w-germany unless it is replacement one and same thing for the nib. The modern two tone nibs are made in 14kt 585 since 1993-1994 tough during the 80's the 146 was available with a 18ct 750 yellow gold nib. The 146 with clear ink windows appeared in the late of 1976-1977.

 

 

George:

 

I bought my 146 in 1987 and it has the blue/grey clear window, but it has the monotone yellow gold 14k 585 nib, not the two tone. I don't recall MB offering "options" of a two tone nib, but I am getting older and my memory ain't what it used to be :). As an FYI, the clip cap is stamped germany, not w. germany.

 

Andy W.

Your pen is certainly an older stock 146. Because in 1986 the firm switched to the new "precious resin" and clear windows were continuing their appearance as they were reintroduced in 1976-1977 . Concerning the nib, I said that the 14k585 duotone nib appeared in 1993-1994. The nib in the 80's was a yellow gold available in 14cts for US markets and 18cts for European markets.

 

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize the Euro's gould get an 18K nib. Makes you wonder why?

 

Andy W.

 

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/weissela/David%20Oscarson/th_nibovercapII.jpg[/url]
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I have some 146's in my collection and what I notice is that the 70's version has "Germany" stamped on and smaller letters on the cap ring, whereas the 80's version I have has "W. Germany" and the letters on the cap ring are similar size and shape as nowadays 146's.

The different lettering is also noticeable on Montblanc desk stands from different decades.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the info. I didn't realize the Euro's gould get an 18K nib. Makes you wonder why?

 

Andy W

 

Not all European pens have the 18k nib - it is just the ones produced for the French market. Apparently the French don't recognise 14k gold - the minimum gold content must be 18k.

 

Incidentally, I have a Classique marked W Germany on the clip + serial number so there are a few around...

 

 

G.

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"Incidentally, I have a Classique marked W Germany on the clip + serial number so there are a few around...

"

 

Yes, my 146 is marked "MONTBLANC MEISTERSTUCK No.146" on the cap ring, and "W.-GERMANY" "GB122xxx" on the clip ring. 14K 2-tone nib and greyish, unstriped window. (The book which came with it shows a striped window!)

 

I guess there were various combinations around at about he time of unification....or it could, I s'pose be a Frankenpen!

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

 

Don Marquis

US humorist (1878 - 1937)

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my 146 is marked "MONTBLANC MEISTERSTUCK No.146" on the cap ring, and "W.-GERMANY" "GB122xxx" on the clip ring. 14K 2-tone nib and greyish, unstriped window. (The book which came with it shows a striped window!)

 

 

I've been off the net for a few days, so this response is slightly late. Modern MB146s typically had the mono-color nib and gray/blue unstriped ink window up until the late 80s. The current MB146s have a bi-color nib and striped ink windows--that production generally started in the early 90s, and then MB introduced serial numbers. There was a period intertwixt where one could find pens like yours, or mono-color nibs with striped ink windows with or without serial numbers, etc.

 

So I don;t think there's anything odd about your pen if you understand the cosmetic redesign of the 146 in the late 80s early 90s.

 

Erc

Edited by niksch

Hard times don't last, but hard people do.

 

Thank a Veteran.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
my 146 is marked "MONTBLANC MEISTERSTUCK No.146" on the cap ring, and "W.-GERMANY" "GB122xxx" on the clip ring. 14K 2-tone nib and greyish, unstriped window. (The book which came with it shows a striped window!)

 

 

I've been off the net for a few days, so this response is slightly late. Modern MB146s typically had the mono-color nib and gray/blue unstriped ink window up until the late 80s. The current MB146s have a bi-color nib and striped ink windows--that production generally started in the early 90s, and then MB introduced serial numbers. There was a period intertwixt where one could find pens like yours, or mono-color nibs with striped ink windows with or without serial numbers, etc.

 

So I don;t think there's anything odd about your pen if you understand the cosmetic redesign of the 146 in the late 80s early 90s.

 

Erc

 

I must be in the intermediate zone: bicolour nib; W.Germany; grey unstriped ink window; no serial number.

In the 1950s MB 146s meant for export, there was a tiny "Made in Germany" on the barrel, and "Masterpiece" in English on the middle cap ring - Meisterstuck on non-export versions.

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  • 5 years later...

Today a friend gave me a 146 that has no clip band imprint whatsoever. I've not exhausted the forums on the topic, but I've yet to hear of a MB 146 clip band without imprint. The cap ring has the usual one. It has the graduated nib collar, lightly smoked ink window and mono-color nib. My friend said he bought it at Dillard's department store around 1990 - German reunification occurred in October of 1990 . I wonder if the lack of imprint is due to retooling for the change in the name. Has anyone heard of 146 clip bands without an imprint?

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My apologies for the incorrect pen furniture terms in my previous post. I should have said "clip ring" and "cap band". Sorry for the confusion.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi everyone,

 

I am attempting to identify/date a Montblanc fountain pen. It is gold pinstripe. The cap is stamped with a serial number beginning with "KP," "GERMANY" and "METAL 3." The pen has a converter. The nib is bi-color. Photos are attached.

 

Thanks so much, in advance.

post-131190-0-05521900-1469727627_thumb.jpg

post-131190-0-35076400-1469727637_thumb.jpg

post-131190-0-76383900-1469727657_thumb.jpg

post-131190-0-51665900-1469727687_thumb.jpg

post-131190-0-96590300-1469727697_thumb.jpg

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Hi everyone,

 

I am attempting to identify/date a Montblanc fountain pen. It is gold pinstripe. The cap is stamped with a serial number beginning with "KP," "GERMANY" and "METAL 3." The pen has a converter. The nib is bi-color. Photos are attached.

 

Thanks so much, in advance.

 

The Solitaire was first produced in the 1980's, and the range was extended in 1992. :)

 

Your pen is a 144 or Classic type converter or cartridge filler though and not a 146 like the pens dated in this thread. :)

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Thank you so much for your reply, Chrissy! This is my very first posting on the site. I will use the information you provided to conduct a more accurate search. :)

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  • 1 year later...

Silver,

 

I know you posted this last year, but I came upon this thread doing research on my 146 with no serial number and I saw the pictures of your beautiful gold fountain pen. Do you still have this pen and would you consider selling her? :)

 

It never hurts to ask!

 

Tim

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