"Legal" margin (1/3 of the way across the page)

[Goodwhiskers]

My National brand 56-907 journal/notebooks (discussed elsewhere around here) come with blue horizontal lines (apparently in oil-based ink because fountain pen ink skips over it, but I don't mind that) and one red, vertical margin line 1/3 of the way across the page.

 

I'd like to know the original intended use for this rule pattern.

 

I first used this pattern (in a 56-907) in a linguistics fieldwork course: our questions in English on the left (narrower) side, and the bilingual consultant's answers on the right (wider) side.

 

I can imagine a few different uses for this pattern. Ghost Plane says here that she has seen script writers use this in handwritten work to separate direction from spoken words.

 

I suppose it could also be used for the "Cornell Notes" method (Levenger brand paper with a "Cornell" design puts the margin further toward the left): the wider side for the information from someone or something else, and the narrower side for my own thoughts and questions.

 

The 56-907 I'm using nowadays is for teaching materials I might eventually use. On most pages I ignore the vertical margin line; on some pages it's useful.

 

Does anyone use this pattern in other ways?

[kazoolaw]

"Legal" margin - as a lawyer I've used these margins in several ways, similar to what you've described.

 

In law school I used them to take class notes: class content on the right, with questions, things to follow up on, references, random thoughts on the left.

 

In practice they can be used the same way. During deposition preparation I sometimes put the questions on the right, and annotate the witness's answers on the left. Or, I take notes of the testimony on the right and mark follow-up questions, cross-references, thoughts and theories on the left. Often, lawyers will make their own legal margins by drawing a line down the left third of the page. Same use applies during trial testimony: notes on what was said on the right, questions to ask the witness, inconsistencies, etc on the left for follow-up. You can also make killer schematic diagrams, connecting all kinds of geometric shapes with arrows to your notes to totally confuse your opponent. Think this: http://www.evidencescience.org/content/leucariA1.pdf with a killer fountain pen and ink.

 

In office practice, preparing a brief or summarizing a transcript the same principle applies: main body on the left, things to remember, follow up areas, citations, brilliant flashes of stunning brilliance on the left.

 

There is also a vertically lined paper I use with a red margin half an inch from the left edge, a double red line in the middle and another single red line half an inch to the right of that. Same general principal, with more room for annotation. The half inch columns also come in handy for page references in summarizing transcripts or lengthy documents/cases. These can also be used for double column text or notes, if for nothing else than to break the monotony.

 

Hard to see lines, but they're the pads on the left of the picture.

http://www.blumberg.com/invoice.cgi?rm=vie...uster_id=155076

 

You didn't expect brevity from a lawyer, did you?

gary

Edited December 11, 2007 by gary

[jbn10161]

There is also a vertically lined paper I use with a red margin half an inch from the left edge, a double red line in the middle and another single red line half an inch to the right of that.

Hard to see lines, but they're the pads on the left of the picture.

http://www.blumberg.com/invoice.cgi?rm=vie...uster_id=155076

Gary, I've been looking for pads like that for a very long time. (Too bad they're not also 3-hole drilled.) How well do they work with fountain pens?

 

And Goodwhiskers, how well does your National product work with FPs?

Edited December 11, 2007 by jbn10161

[kazoolaw]

JBN10161

Well, they're not Rhodia pads, but they work pretty well. Scout the site and you might find some three hole punched pads to your liking.

If you'd like some sample pages, PM me your address and I'll happily send some on their way to you.

gary

[Jimmy James]

The transcripts I get when a client of mine appeals seems to use around the same amount of the page for binding and margin purposes. Perhaps that is the reason for this margin -- it may be a leftover from when the same binding techniques were used on transcripts or other filings that were written by hand.

[Goodwhiskers]

And Goodwhiskers, how well does your National product work with FPs?

 

I have two National 56-907 books, both bought in the Los Angeles area, one in the late 1980's (made in the USA) and the other in 2004 (made in Canada). Although they are not identical, I can't tell any differences in their paper (which really impressed me).

 

The paper is very good for writing on with fountain pens, even with the Levenger inks I've had trouble with on paper I couldn't choose.

 

The paper in the 56-907 is smooth, so even my bad nibs haven't snagged up fibers.

 

It is dense enough that even "aggressive" inks like Levenger Cobalt & Fireball, Namiki/Pilot Black, and Noodler's Luxury Blue, from wet-writing pens, have left only very slight shadows on the other side unless I went over the same area too many times.

 

The paper is also absorbent enough to let even Levenger Cobalt, Levenger Raven Black, and weeks-concentrated-in-the-pen Noodler's Gruene Cactus dry completely and fairly quickly.

 

Good stuff!

[Goodwhiskers]

You didn't expect brevity from a lawyer, did you?

Thanks, Gary! That was a great answer.

[Ray-Vigo]

As I've seen it: case notes and references on one side, related class notes or other loose notes on the other side. As far as I've seen, they're not used very often in actual law school anymore- computers have widely replaced them. They're great if you want your topic information laid out side by side by topic rather than straight up and down.

 

Fellow victims can understand the need for the double barrel- necessity more than anything. It's not any more intuitive than regular ruled paper, but the way material is covered in law school some people like the side by side (you often will get a hell of a lot of reading and take notes on that, then you go to class and you get more notes, some of which you knew from the reading, some of which you didn't). The ones that you didn't catch or remember hurt like hell. We've all been victims of Socrates at one time.

 

In practice some people keep them along for the ride because they get used to the double barrel style. Other people go over to legal pads or regular pads. It's a personal choice.

 

 

 

 

Prof: We now turn to Palsgraf... (looks at class chart)

 

(oh no, he's going to the chart again, and I didn't really get all of this one)

 

Prof: We'll head to the B's

 

(oh damn, not good- every time a hard one comes up...)

 

Prof: let's see, Missssteerrrr

 

(oh for Christ's sakes, but there's a lot of guys in here in the B's, right?)

 

Prof: Mister Black, yes Mr. Black

 

(aw hell of course it had to be...)

Edited December 12, 2007 by Ray-Vigo

[ipse dixit]

I have created this style paper in a PDF format. I can the print it on any type paper I want.

 

We use wordperfect and I can use it to create a form and the publish it to PDF. You can instert Case Styles and numbers then either republish the document or just print it out of wordperfect.

 

Here is the form.

Depo_Form.pdf

 

Jim

[captnemo]

I run a transcription business and some clients want the legal format for legal purposes. Another sort of client that wants legal format is transcription of shot video. To the left of the text are placed "time codes" that index to specific time points in the video or audio "tape" so they can be located easily. The director uses the margin to scribble editing notes. Those notes are then used by the video editor to cut the video and edit the pieces together according to how the director wishes.

[jbn10161]

Gary was kind enough to send me samples of the Blumberg paper he described above , as well as a sample of paper from Quill, another legal products supplier. It is no overstatement to write that they have changed my outlook on paper and fountain pens.

 

After trying upteen brands of legal pads with poor success, I had come to believe that paper had to be both heavy and high quality to work with fountain pens. I have squirreled away a little supply of BnR pads (which have thicker paper with less sizing than their notebooks) and Clairefontaine pads, and love using them. They are thick, dense, crisp, wonderful.

 

The pages that Gary sent, in contrast, are thin. The Quill paper, held up to the light, is evidently not dense; the Blumberg paper is from recycled stock. According to my now-discarded theory, they should not work well with FPs.

 

Yet, they work outstandingly well. They give very defined lines; there is no bleed-through; there is no feathering; my nibs, albeit that they are mediums, do not snag.

 

This may be one of life's few examples of a mystery deepening while the answers are multiplying. I no longer know what it is that makes a paper good for fountain pens. On the other hand, I don't care as much, since there now seem to be more (and less expensive) choices out there!

[ipse dixit]

Kind of off topic.

 

In 1976 when I started practicing law the legal pads we had available were not fountain pen friendly. They were like Big Chief tablets with extra pulp. They would foul the nib. I would go to the county law library and pick up legal pads that West Publishing [before there was West Law] left for attorneys to use. They had some ads for West products in the margin, but were very nice paper.

 

After that I started buying my own paper, pads, and envelopes.

 

Jim

[elalan]

Gary, are you left-handed?

[kazoolaw]

Elalan,

No, just a run-of-the-mill righty.

gary

[xena]

As a dedicated user of these for the purpose of cornell note-taking, i have found the format versatile enough to even use in various translation projects. I can allow cross references from classical and biblical texts to go on the left margin, while keeping the main body of the text for english, and i can take notes on etymology on the left as well (i.e. keeping straight how i'm saying what, break down compound words that aren't transparent or in the dictionary). A truly fun toy!