Complaint with an order from Stylos Fine Pens

[wednesday_mac]

As a small press publisher in the 90s, I learned it is Federal law that someone doing business as a business is required to get a product to the customer. I think your strongest point is that the seller did not fulfill your order as you requested. You specifically requested it be sent to one address; he sent it to another address. The fault is his, and the responsibility for non-delivery is his.

 

His non-disclosure that he will not send a package to an address different from that for a credit card is also a mark against him. To offer a "ship to a different address" option and then not do that very thing is the foundation of your complaint from what I can see. IF he had done as you requested, the pen would not have gone missing.

 

I would go to your local post office and file a claim/complaint against the company that sold you the pen. I know that the post office will send a form to the seller asking for an explanation. It does not matter that he has Delivery Confirmation: you did not receive the product.

 

When I was sending out books, if a customer claimed to not receive the shipment, I had to replace it or refund the money. No questions asked, that was the law. Maybe it's changed since then as this was pre-internet, but i doubt it. This was to protect the customer against fraud - sending their money and receiving nothing in return.

 

The second thing I'd do is contact the Better Business Bureau in the seller's area and file a complaint. I don't know that it tracks complaints against companies that aren't members of the BBB. I do know that if they are a member, they will have to address your complaint and resolve it to your satisfaction.

 

At this point, what other posters have said about credit card protection is your best bet. Second to that, I think the US Postal Service's claims division is your second.

 

My first thought was to wonder why in the world this company sends out expensive pens without requiring the buyer to sign for the package, and builds that requirement into their billing. "If an order is over $XXX, you must sign for the package." That's just common sense to protect both parties.

Edited November 7, 2007 by wednesday_mac

[LDF]

I didn't read the other replies, but if you paid with a credit card,

call the card's customer service, and they will help you file a contested

transaction.

Keep all documentation (written, emails, receipts) and write

what happened - you'll need to include with your claim.

You should get your money back. It just takes a while.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

"Maybe if the owner feels the pressure from the Community he will be inclined to send me a replacement or refund my money."

 

 

First- I can sympathize for what happened here. It isn't right when someone steals or takes delivery of something that isn't theirs.

 

However, your complaint and injury are personal ones. The two primary parties are those in the contract- the buyer and the seller. Perhaps the credit card company will be drawn in if a complaint is filed, but regardless of that the people of this board aren't related to this deal. As much as I feel sorry for you, I also see no reason to harass another party with whom I. or even we as a group have no injury or dispute in an attempt to give you some kind of leverage. If there was any wrong here on the part of the seller (and that has yet to be proven with hard facts directly) it would be a personal one against the buyer and would certainly not warrant widespread harassment. I don't think it would be right if people did as you requested.

 

 

 

"Im sorry if I offended anyone, but I really needed to inform other people about what had happened, and to warn someone else who might be thinking about buying from this company!"

 

Buyers informing other buyers about sellers and their conduct is an important part of any marketplace. But that has its limits- opinions are fine, but if accusations made by a buyer are wrong or embellished, or ill-informed, then I think there is at least some risk of wrongfully sullying someone else's trade reputation. I would just warn not to go too far in accusing the seller of something that lacks hard evidence.

 

That said, an undisclosed policy of ONLY shipping to a credit card formal address tends to mislead the consumer. I'm not sure of all the fine print details here (so I won't go very far with this), but sellers really should tell buyers up front if they're going to do this. It would be downright misleading to offer separate "ship to" and "billing" addresses and then not honor them due to a hidden policy. But I'm not sure of the exact details here, so I won't say any more.

 

I'd go the credit card route- I think you stand a better chance talking to them.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Ray-Vigo

[Stylo]

To be charitable, that is a load of malarkey. What help would Alexis be asking to receive in post #1 if all she wanted to do was inform us of an unreliable seller as she says was her wish in post #7?

 

She doesn't say that's "all she wanted to do."

 

[Stylo]

I think that hinting to call this seller's direct number is inappropriate. However, that has no bearing on how the situation seems to have been handled.

 

Unfortunately, the order was placed over the phone, which means there is no written record of order. When given the choice, I'd much rather place an order online. Among other things, you can make sure the shipping address and billing information has been provided accurately.

 

He will not take responsibility for shipping it to the wrong address (he even said their policy is to ship it to the billing address, even if instructed otherwise, in case of fraud!!!), nor will he take responsibility for not ensuring signature required or insurance!

 

If they indeed sent the item to the billing address instead of the requested shipping address, without notifying you, it is absolutely ridiculous. I don't see how anyone can defend that.

 

I think your only recourse is your credit card company.

 

A quick search at the usps.com site seems to indicate that "delivery confirmation" doesn't even provide the address the item was delivered to. It only provides the date and ZIP code! How useless is that! Hopefully your husband's office and you home zips are different. But again, you will run into the problem of being able to prove that you requested the item was sent to the wrong address.

 

Hopefully things will get resolved.

 

 

 

[mehitabel]

<snip>

 

Did you request that the package be sent insured with delivery confirmation??? If not then the company would most likely ship the least expensive way that ensures confirmation the package was delivered. Even if you paid for priority shipping, there is no signature confirmation on that either.

I sell quite a few pens here on FPN and unless the seller specifically requests (and pays for insurance), I ship USPS First Class with Delivery Confirmation.

 

<snip>

 

I agree in general with your response, but I do have one question. Priority doesn't require a signature but it does require "delivery confirmation". What is the definition of "delivery" in an apartment building? It surely would include delivering to a person who opens the door; and it should include putting an item into an unshared apartment mailbox or through the apartment unit's door slot. But, should leaving an item in a hallway in front of the unit's door constitute "delivery"? There may be case law on this - it seems very possible that this issue might have been adjudicated.

 

Mehitabel

[tnt]

I didn't read the other replies, but if you paid with a credit card,

call the card's customer service, and they will help you file a contested

transaction.

Keep all documentation (written, emails, receipts) and write

what happened - you'll need to include with your claim.

You should get your money back. It just takes a while.

 

I believe you have 30 days from the day of the transaction, the date your card was actually charged.

[Col]

What is the definition of "delivery" in an apartment building?

That's the key point, I think.

 

[mehitabel]

Hello fellow Mont Blanc lovers,

 

I ordered a Mont Blanc pen from Stylos Fine Pens (http://stylofinepens.com/) over the phone, and a mistake was made. The pen was a gift,

and I had ordered it gift wrapped and to be sent to my husdands office. Unfortunately the pen was sent to my home

address, and was NOT sent insured or with a signature confirmation. The mailman left the package at the door, since it

was only required to be 'delivery confirmed'.

Needless to say, the pen has disappeared. I live in an apartment complex in NYC, which is why I wanted the item shipped to an office,

to ensure someone would be there to pick it up!

 

To make a long story short I have gotten NOWHERE with this company. At first they denied the delivery address was entered, then

they assured me the post office should have a record of who picked it up, then they advised me to make a claim with the post office. Well, even though I paid for 2-3 day priority mail this somehow did not go through. The post office can not issue a claim since a signature was not required!

 

I have called every day for a week, and even got through to the owner of the store in California. He informed me he is not willing to do anything, since the item was delivered. He will not take responsibility for shipping it to the wrong address (he even said their policy is to ship it to the billing address, even if instructed otherwise, in case of fraud!!!), nor will he take responsibility for not ensuring signature required or insurance!

 

I really need the COmmunity's help on this one. I wanted to do something special for my husands birthday and its been completely ruined now. Maybe if the owner feels the pressure from the Community he will be inclined to send me a replacement or refund my money. Because right now I paid for a pen that I never recieved!

 

His direct number is 415 399 1204. He know my case because Ive been driving them crazy over there!!!

 

You may be able to get the charge reversed on your credit card if you can prove that you asked for the item to be shipped to your husband's office and that the item was left at your apartment door. The seller may have the right to ship only to the address listed on the credit card, but the seller would be required to notify you of this limitation.

 

It is unfortunate that you did not receive an email confirmation of your order. When you paid for the pen, did you create an account with stylofinepens.com? If so, you may be able to go to your account and see what shipping address you entered. I can do this on my Macy's and Amazon accounts, for example. If the information is there, you can save the information to your hard drive and send a copy with your letter to the credit card company.

 

Do you know if it is the policy of the seller to send an email confirmation of all internet orders? If so, and, if your email is saved on your ISP's server, you might check your email with your web browser using web mail. I have been able to find a couple of email messages that were not delivered to my mailbox using web mail.

 

Good luck -

 

mehitabel

 

[OldGriz]

<snip>

 

Did you request that the package be sent insured with delivery confirmation??? If not then the company would most likely ship the least expensive way that ensures confirmation the package was delivered. Even if you paid for priority shipping, there is no signature confirmation on that either.

I sell quite a few pens here on FPN and unless the seller specifically requests (and pays for insurance), I ship USPS First Class with Delivery Confirmation.

 

<snip>

 

I agree in general with your response, but I do have one question. Priority doesn't require a signature but it does require "delivery confirmation". What is the definition of "delivery" in an apartment building? It surely would include delivering to a person who opens the door; and it should include putting an item into an unshared apartment mailbox or through the apartment unit's door slot. But, should leaving an item in a hallway in front of the unit's door constitute "delivery"? There may be case law on this - it seems very possible that this issue might have been adjudicated.

 

Mehitabel

 

Priority Mail DOES NOT require deliver confirmation... the only thing priority mail gives you is faster deliver time...

IF it required delivery confirmation you would not have to pay extra for it..

I send quite a lot of mail out to customers priority mail and you have to pay to get delivery confirmation.

Delivery is defined as delivering the package to the address on the label. They do not have to hand deliver it to the person it is addressed to. The mail carrier, however, if the package will not fit in a mailbox, should have left an attempt to deliver card... but we all know that might be too much trouble for some people.

What we have here is failure in three cases...

[mehitabel]

<snip>

 

Did you request that the package be sent insured with delivery confirmation??? If not then the company would most likely ship the least expensive way that ensures confirmation the package was delivered. Even if you paid for priority shipping, there is no signature confirmation on that either.

I sell quite a few pens here on FPN and unless the seller specifically requests (and pays for insurance), I ship USPS First Class with Delivery Confirmation.

 

I agree in general with your response, but I do have one question. Priority doesn't require a signature but it does require "delivery confirmation". What is the definition of "delivery" in an apartment building? It surely would include delivering to a person who opens the door; and it should include putting an item into an unshared apartment mailbox or through the apartment unit's door slot. But, should leaving an item in a hallway in front of the unit's door constitute "delivery"? There may be case law on this - it seems very possible that this issue might have been adjudicated.

 

Mehitabel

 

Priority Mail DOES NOT require deliver confirmation... the only thing priority mail gives you is faster deliver time...

IF it required delivery confirmation you would not have to pay extra for it..

I send quite a lot of mail out to customers priority mail and you have to pay to get delivery confirmation.

Delivery is defined as delivering the package to the address on the label. They do not have to hand deliver it to the person it is addressed to. The mail carrier, however, if the package will not fit in a mailbox, should have left an attempt to deliver card... but we all know that might be too much trouble for some people.

What we have here is failure in three cases...

 

Priority mail provides delivery confirmation at no extra cost "when printing a shipping label online". I would expect that stylofinepens.com would routinely do this.

 

mehitabel

 

[Stylo]

When you paid for the pen, did you create an account with stylofinepens.com? If so, you may be able to go to your account and see what shipping address you entered.

 

I think a number of you are forgetting that she ordered "over the phone", which will probably give her less ammunition when filing a dispute with the CC company.

[Stylo]

Well, thanks to this thread, I at least learned that delivery confirmation is almost useless. The postal worker could just do a drive by toss onto your driveway (or the curb) and generate a delivery confirmation. For anything important, it seems like Signature Confirmation™ is the way to go, although I couldn't find price info on usps.com and I wonder whether postal workers are as cavalier with it as with delivery confirmation.

 

Incidentally, if a package gets lost and an insurance claim has to be made with usps, how difficult is it to it and how likely is it to have your loss fully covered?

 

 

 

[mehitabel]

When you paid for the pen, did you create an account with stylofinepens.com? If so, you may be able to go to your account and see what shipping address you entered.

 

I think a number of you are forgetting that she ordered "over the phone", which will probably give her less ammunition when filing a dispute with the CC company.

 

You are so right. I didn't read the original post carefully enough and made the assumption that she had ordered it online. I really don't know what happens when one orders by phone as I so rarely do it. I guess I learned that a buyer may be better off buying online rather than by phone. Also, I have sometimes been reluctant to create an account when offered the option of buying without creating an account - now I see that it may be advantageous to create an account.

 

I called the company. I told them that my daughter lives in SF (true) and I wanted to send her a pen as gift. I asked whether I could have the gift delivered to her office - they said "no problem". So, it would seem that the company president lied to Alexis when he said that they would only ship to the credit card address. I do want to say that the customer service rep with whom I spoke was very courteous and helpful.

 

mehitabel

 

 

[alexis]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your advice and your support! I think I really stepped on toes with my first post,

Im sorry about that. I was just so upset and frustrated, I think I went to far in posting the phone number

and trying to draw the readers of this site into my arguement with the company.

I am going through my credit card, but Im not sure if I will be successful since the company says the

item was 'delivered'. I realize dealing with smaller companies is different because their profit margin is slimmer,

the owner told me he is simply not willing to ship me another pen without charging me for it, even though he agreed

that all of the mistakes were made on his end (call center, shippers, etc.). Ive never had an issue like this, and honestly

could not believe that a company would not try to make the customer happy...I would have gladly bought again from them,

since my husband loves Mont Blanc. Its too bad that this has discouraged me from buying from small stores, and from now on

whenever I have an expensive purchase to make I will do it with a chain store. I just feel more confident that if I had ordered

this from Bloomingdales they would have resolved the issue, no problem.

I guess its a tough lesson to learn, in trying to save a few dollars on a full priced pen I ended up losing the entire amount!

Anyways, I hope this has at least encouraged everyone to make sure that when the shipper charges you for priority mail,

you make sure its actually 'signature required'. And like some posters suggested, its actually safe to place an order online

than over the phone!

I am also going to try to follow up with the BBB. I did file a complain with the postoffice, but since the item wasnt insured there is nothing they can do. The mailman told me he left it in the door because he thought it was safe, he feels terrible, but hes not going to buy me a replacement! LOL

Anyways, again thanks for your helpful comments. And again Im sorry if I over stepped my bounds as a poster, but try to understand my frustration!

[mehitabel]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your advice and your support! I think I really stepped on toes with my first post,

Im sorry about that. I was just so upset and frustrated, I think I went to far in posting the phone number

and trying to draw the readers of this site into my arguement with the company.

I am going through my credit card, but Im not sure if I will be successful since the company says the

item was 'delivered'. I realize dealing with smaller companies is different because their profit margin is slimmer,

the owner told me he is simply not willing to ship me another pen without charging me for it, even though he agreed

that all of the mistakes were made on his end (call center, shippers, etc.). Ive never had an issue like this, and honestly

could not believe that a company would not try to make the customer happy...I would have gladly bought again from them,

since my husband loves Mont Blanc. Its too bad that this has discouraged me from buying from small stores, and from now on

whenever I have an expensive purchase to make I will do it with a chain store. I just feel more confident that if I had ordered

this from Bloomingdales they would have resolved the issue, no problem.

I guess its a tough lesson to learn, in trying to save a few dollars on a full priced pen I ended up losing the entire amount!

Anyways, I hope this has at least encouraged everyone to make sure that when the shipper charges you for priority mail,

you make sure its actually 'signature required'. And like some posters suggested, its actually safe to place an order online

than over the phone!

I am also going to try to follow up with the BBB. I did file a complain with the postoffice, but since the item wasnt insured there is nothing they can do. The mailman told me he left it in the door because he thought it was safe, he feels terrible, but hes not going to buy me a replacement! LOL

Anyways, again thanks for your helpful comments. And again Im sorry if I over stepped my bounds as a poster, but try to understand my frustration!

 

Priority mail can include delivery confirmation if the mailing label is printed online. This is different from "signature required". You would have to pay extra for this.

 

Also, you might want to phone the customer service number at stylofinepens (the 800 number) and just ask whether they gift wrap and send to a friend's office. They will say, yes. they do.

 

Good luck-

 

mehitabel

[alec]

Hi Alexis,

 

You wrote,

"Its too bad that this has discouraged me from buying from small stores, and from now on

whenever I have an expensive purchase to make I will do it with a chain store. "

 

It would be unfortunate to assume that all small stores will be unhelpful in the future as you will lose out on many of the best sources for quality items.

 

In addition, most specialty stores have excellent customer focus. My personal experiences with Swisher, His Nibs, Nibs.com, Richard Binder and others in the Fountain Pen arena have been completely satisfying.

 

Best of luck to you,

Alec

 

[Col]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your advice and your support! I think I really stepped on toes with my first post,

Im sorry about that. I was just so upset and frustrated...

I can imagine how you must have felt, especially as it was a present for a loved one, and buying something with that in mind is an important part of the giving process. It's not nice when it's spoilt.

 

Your apology for bruising toes (not mine, particularly) is bravely and finely done, alexis.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Col

[Yrusew]

On 11/5/2007 at 1:41 PM, OldGriz said:

 

Allow me to point out a few things...

According to your original post, you did not request the item sent signature confirmation... you request the the item be shipped priority mail. Priority mail DOES NOT require a signature... in fact it does not even give delivery confirmation unless that is asked for and paid for in addition to the normal priority mail price.... the seller obviously did request delivery confirmation since he can show it was delivered.

 

The seller did not ship to the wrong address... he stated to you that he will not ship to an address other than the billing address due to problems with credit card fraud. This is becoming more and more common... unless I know the person buying from me, I will not ship to an address other than the one on the credit card either.... I am protecting myself and the credit card owner by doing this...

 

As for the email notification of shipment. That is not something that every company does... nor do they all email a receipt.. in the case of a credit card purchase the reciept was most likely in the package with the pen as it should be.

 

As for warning us of doing business with this company and voting with your wallet .... I think that is fine and dandy.. but that is not what you wanted. You wanted us to get on the phones and blast the company for service you do not think you received... that is not the same as warning us the company was not reputable... BIG DIFFERENCE... Personally I have never done business with this company and do not know the company, but I would be a bit more wary about doing business with them after what you have said...

 

I feel for the fact that you did not get the pen you wanted for your husband. But in this case it sounds like the company followed proper procedure (even though it did not send it to the office.)... they have proof that package was delivered.

After reading this post snd a few others, I will leave this community. Heartless, sniveling, deceitful, hateful. 

[Paul-in-SF]

You're flouncing over a 14-year-old thread? Interesting....