Writing in the Copperplate style with an italic nib

[caliken]

For those who don't like to write with a flexed nib, it is possible to produce writing in the copperplate style, but using an italic nib. The result is not, strictly speaking, copperplate but I think that it is quite attractive nonetheless. The thicks and thins are distributed differently, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as a new style is produced. This lettering is written large, so that comparisons can be made.

 

caliken

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/CopperplatewithItalicNib.jpg

[Titivillus]

For those who don't like to write with a flexed nib, it is possible to produce writing in the copperplate style, but using an italic nib. The result is not, strictly speaking, copperplate but I think that it is quite attractive nonetheless. The thicks and thins are distributed differently, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as a new style is produced. This lettering is written large, so that comparisons can be made.

 

caliken

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/CopperplatewithItalicNib.jpg

 

 

In one of Thomas Harris's books Hannibal Lechter is said to have written a flowing copperplate script with a italic nib

 

[HDoug]

For those who don't like to write with a flexed nib, it is possible to produce writing in the copperplate style, but using an italic nib.

 

Easy for you to say! Actually, quite amazing. Are you rotating the italic nib to control the distribution of thicks and thins?

 

BTW, I really like your experimentation and modification of traditional hands (and methods), especially because they're characterized by clarity and legibility. Thanks much for posting.

 

Doug

 

[caliken]

 

 

In one of Thomas Harris's books Hannibal Lechter is said to have written a flowing copperplate script with a italic nib

 

I didn't know that - you learn something new every day!

 

I hope that I don't resemble Lechter in any other way!!

 

[caliken]

 

Easy for you to say! Actually, quite amazing. Are you rotating the italic nib to control the distribution of thicks and thins?

 

BTW, I really like your experimentation and modification of traditional hands (and methods), especially because they're characterized by clarity and legibility. Thanks much for posting.

 

Doug

 

I was very careful to keep rotation of the nib to an absolute minimum as I wanted a clear comparison with copperplate. There was however, one exception - the capital C. In order to avoid the golden rule of copperplate - never to cross thick lines with thick lines - I had to do some manipulation.

Thanks again for your interest, Doug.

 

Ken

 

[inkypointer]

Lovely! Just lovely! Since I have never had a copperplate nib, this is more the style I have always produced.

[Shelley]

As always your handwriting is flawless.

[Stephen-I-am]

Did you use an oblique italic in order to have the diagnols be thinner?

 

Stephen

[nycom92]

Both beautiful examples of how I would like to write!

 

Thanks for making my writing so pitiful....

[caliken]

Did you use an oblique italic in order to have the diagnols be thinner?

 

Stephen

Stephen :

 

I used an ordinary straight-edged italic nib.

 

For conventional copperplate and this 'italic nib' version, I use the following guideline sheet under the writing paper -

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/File0432.jpg

The sloped lines are 55 degrees from the horizontal. I then turn the paper 35 degrees to the left. This places the slope lines at right angles to the edge of the desk. At this angle, I can write copperplate comfortably with an oblique pen and, with a bit of body & arm re-positioning, with a fountain pen with a flex nib. When the paper is turned to this extent, I find it difficult to judge the letter heights properly. For this reason, this is the only style of lettering with which I use double guidelines - in all other cases, the baseline is sufficient.

 

In the italic-nib version, I turn the nib slightly anti-clockwise. This produces a steep angle and makes reasonably fine hairlines. I then write, imagining the copperplate letter shapes - without flexing, of course.

 

I'm sorry that this turned out to be a long-winded reply to a basic question - but I found this to be extremely difficult to put into words!

It's a bit like describing a spiral staircase to a blind man!

 

caliken

Edited October 18, 2007 by caliken

[antoniosz]

Dear Caliken,

 

Your post reminded me of the article by Gilderdale, P. on "The Great Copperplate Myth", published in Letter Arts Review 15(1): 38-47, 1999.

This person claimed that much of the original "copperplate" calligraphy work (18th and early 19th century) was done with nibs that we neither flexible nor pointed. They were sharp broad nibs (oblique or straight edged). Have your read this article? Any comments?

 

AntoniosZ

[caliken]

Dear Caliken,

 

Your post reminded me of the article by Gilderdale, P. on "The Great Copperplate Myth", published in Letter Arts Review 15(1): 38-47, 1999.

This person claimed that much of the original "copperplate" calligraphy work (18th and early 19th century) was done with nibs that we neither flexible nor pointed. They were sharp broad nibs (oblique or straight edged). Have your read this article? Any comments?

 

AntoniosZ

 

AntoniosZ :

 

I haven't read the article, but I have heard this theory before.

 

On the face of it, it would seem entirely possible. After all, as we know, our pen version derives from the engraved copperplates which were produced from the original hand lettering. That's why we use oblique penholders - we're trying to produce writing based on the copperplate engravings.

 

However, I have one problem with this theory, and it's a major one. I think that this style of lettering would have to have been produced using a similar technique to the one I've used. I can't think of any other way of producing this style of lettering with an edged pen. If I'm right, is it likely that the engravers would have changed the weight distribution to the extent of the copperplate images we see printed?

 

I think that it's much more likely that the engravers would have followed the thick and thin strokes as given to them, and an edged pen original would have looked more like my example above.

 

I seem to remember having seen an example of this style of lettering prior to engraving, but I can't remenber where or when.

 

Any comments or ideas?

 

caliken

Edited October 18, 2007 by caliken

[antoniosz]

I seem to remember having seen an example of this style of lettering prior to engraving, but I can't remenber where or when.

 

No, I have been looking for such examples but have not found anything yet.

Anyway, I am not a stickler for tradition in calligraphy. Although it must be respected, this should not prevent people from experimenting.

The italic nib gives a pleasant version of copperplate and this is more important than anything else.

By the way - the flexible stubs/italic are another interesting variation, that you may want to try.

[Anachronos]

Ken,

 

I am left handed and have been having a terrible time working with Spencarian Script as I would have liked to use it for handwriting. I ordered your book "Copperplate Writing". It looks like finally, after a couple of years looking for a style I could convert to a leftie without having to having to tie my hand in knots, I have found it. Can't wait to get your book. Any thoughts on a leftie using your method?

 

All the best.

 

Anachronos

[Lively]

Hi, I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd add this... I have just been reading Geroge Bickham's 'Penmanship Made Easy (Young Clerks Assistant)' and on Page 4, titled 'Directions for Learners' it says:

 

"Make All Your Body-Strokes with the Full, & all Hair-Strokes with the corner of Your Pen"

 

It also says: "Never turn Your Pen, nor alter the Position of Your Hand"

[Nathans_Letters]

So, I know this thread has been dead for a long time, but I couldn't help but be fascinated by the subject, which I am personally very interested in. I've been trying to learn how to write Copperplate/English Roundhand with an italic nibbed quill pen for a while now, but have been unable to find anyone who discussed how it might be done, beyond a few handwriting guides from the 1700s, and now the info posted here.

 

These guides never mention metal pens, only quills. This is likely because the first metal pen wasn't patented until 1803, and from what I've read, they weren't in wide use until around 1830, so metal pens probably weren't even on the rader of the writers of the guides in the 1700s. I've personally never tried to use a metal nib, mainly because I figured it would be easiest to learn from the guides by using the materials they were using and that their method was probably tuned to.

 

I have gathered from them that in the 18th century English Roundhand and Italian Hand (Copperplate is a modern version of these) were written with Italic nibs. Along with what Lively quoted in the post above, Mr. Bickham also says "Make the nib of your Pen for the Round and Round Text Hands the breadth of the full stroke" and says to hold the "Nib flat". All this sounds like he is speaking of an italic nib. This makes sense to me, since in my experience of trimming quill pens, getting anything but an italic nib is quite hard. Also, the 18th century guides usually recomend that you trim your quill so that the side nearest the hand is shorter that the other. I think they are telling you to make an oblique nib, but I'm not certain. There is a version of "The Young Clerk's Assistant" (There were many, since titles were often re-used by different authors) written by Richard Ware and published in 1764 that recommends that you do not trim your quill this way, instead directing that you make each "Cheek, or side of the Slit, as equal as possible" rather than making the "Part next your Hand...the narrowest and shortest." He specifaclly mentions that this is different than the method perscribed by other writing masters.

 

Sorry for the rather longwinded history lesson, but I thought that people trying to find information on this subject might find it interesting.

 

Also, your examples at the top of the thread are fantastic, Mr. Fraser! I hope that someday I can write as beautifully with an Italic nib! Onward, ho!

Edited December 19, 2015 by Nathans_Letters

[Joe in Seattle]

Just beautiful.

[smk]

For those interested, there is a more in depth discussion on writing English Roundhand with edged nibs here: Copperplate Handwriting & English Roundhand - things get really interesting on page2 but all of that thread is well worth a read IMO.

 

- Salman