A replacement for Iroshizuku Kiri-same ?

[yoplaboum]

Hello,

I finished my Kiri-Same bottle, and I realize that this ink is no longer available. So bad, this was a perfect grey ink for me, the most near the color of a carbon pencil.. Do you know an other grey ink to replace the Pilot one ?

Thank you ! 🙂

[LizEF]

InkSwatch.com is sometimes useful for finding a similar ink.  Here's their Kiri-same page. Click/tap a tile to see links to reviews of the inks. HTH.

 

ETA: Kaweco Smokey Grey won't flow nearly as well as the Pilot ink, so put it at the bottom of the list.

[inkstainedruth]

I just looked at the link (mostly for curiosity's sake) and thought that the swatch of Kaweco Smokey Grey looked sort of dry in comparison to Kiri-same.  But haven't tried either of them.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Penguincollector]

  Having looked at the Inkswatch page for Kiri-Same, it appears to me that Diamine Grey and Pure Pens (Diamine as well, I believe) Llaneris Slate would be worth trying.  Colorverse Matter and Color Traveler Sardines Greige are a bit warmer, and Colorverse a Uma (also dry) is a bit lighter. If the color of a dry ink is appealing, then I would try adding a tiny tiny little bit of clear dish soap, Photo- Flo, or VanNess Pens White Lightning to it. Greys are tough to color match.

 

  If you’re willing to pay customs/import fees, I found more Kiri-Same for you- I bought both Kiri-Same and Tsutsuji from this company when the discontinuation was announced:

RiNo Distribution Kiri Same

[PithyProlix]

22 hours ago, LizEF said:

InkSwatch.com is sometimes useful for finding a similar ink.  Here's their Kiri-same page.

 

Kiri Same looks much warmer than the InkSwatch.com swatch, so probably not useful this time.

 

20 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

Llaneris Slate

 

Llanberis Slate is a really lovely grey - one of my favorites - but much too cool for a Kiri Same replacement, I think.

 

My vote is Stipula Grigio Lava. R&K SketchInk Thea can look similar but, in my experience, the color varies a lot depending on the paper.

[PithyProlix]

Oh - and take a look at De Atramentis Document Urban Grey too. I don't have it but a lot of the available images make it look like it might be a good match.

[LizEF]

36 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

Kiri Same looks much warmer than the InkSwatch.com swatch, so probably not useful this time.

While the images on screen may look off, that doesn't necessarily mean that those same colors don't match (they could all look off), but yes, this is why I always recommend checking reviews and multiple sources - these tend to be vague matches rather than sure things.

 

31 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

Oh - and take a look at De Atramentis Document Urban Grey too. I don't have it but a lot of the available images make it look like it might be a good match.

Urban Grey is darker. Kiri-same leans more red. Maybe I'll get my swatch cards out later and go through the greys to see if I have anything close...

 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, LizEF said:

Maybe I'll get my swatch cards out later and go through the greys to see if I have anything close...

OK. Kiri-same is very brown-leaning on my card. That fits my memory.  Of the inks I have, here are the closest matches (and other comments):

• Kiri-same actually looks nothing like a pencil (using two uni Kuru Toga mechanical pencils for comparison, they are grey and Kiri-same then looks brown)
• If you diluted Colorverse Vortex Motion enough, I think it might be identical. But it's already so dry and poorly lubricated that this might make it horrible to write with.
• De Atramentis Document Urban Grey is nowhere near as brown
• Herbin Cacao du Brésil might be very close when diluted (it would take dilution better than the Colorverse, but it would want a wet, smooth nib after)
• Pelikan Edelstein Moonstone is much cooler, but it's closer than anything else so far (without dilution, not as close as above two with dilution), it also reminds me a lot of pencil. But alas, it was a limited edition, so, nevermind...
• Rohrer & Klingner Ebony (another limited edition) might be similar if diluted. It was also an iron gall ink.
• Sailor Kujukuri Coast Hamachidori, diluted, might be similar, but possibly a little more pinkish-purple (it also appears to be near impossible to get outside the Japanese shop it's made for).

That's it.  Sorry, it appears I have nothing that's actually close to Kiri-same out of the bottle.

 

Technical details:

I compared my Kiri-same swatch to all my swatches. You can look at my google sheet to see all my inks. If it has a review number, it has a swatch. A few without review numbers have swatches, but not many (I don't swatch until I use the ink, and these days, the review tends to be the first use).

 

These are all the grey inks I compared but which are not mentioned above, meaning they weren't close enough to comment:

• 3 Oysters Delicious Cool Gray
• 3 Oysters I.COLOR.U Doldam
• Colorverse Anti-Matter
• De Atramentis Fog Grey
• Diamine Chopin
• Diamine Earl Grey
• Diamine Graphite
• Diamine Grey
• Diamine Moon Dust
• Diamine Silver Fox
• Herbin Gris Nuage
• Jacques Herbin Gris Orage
• Jacques Herbin Gris de Houle
• KWZ Grey Lux
• Kaweco Smokey Grey
• MoJi 01 Silk Grey
• Monteverde Smoke Noir
• Noodler's Pasternak
• Papier Plume Oyster Grey
• Pilot Iroshizuku Fuyu-syogun
• Pilot Iroshizuku Kiri-same
• Robert Oster Graphite
• Sailor Chushu
• Vinta Armada

[yazeh]

I would recommend getting a bunch of samples. I think fountainfeder sells samples in Europe. Grey is very difficult to match with.  Most grey inks I have tested have below average lubrication.  

Unfortunately i haven't tried Kiri-same, so my suggestions should be taken with a pinch of salt.

You can always get a J Herbin Gris Nuage, which has purplish tinge or Diamine Earl Grey, Inkebara Brown Grey seems quite interesting too. 

 

@LizEF Very complete.   I might bunch up all my swatches, minus Kiri-same and post it here.

This is an incomplete one from another review. 

 

 

 

 

 

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, yazeh said:

J Herbin Gris Nuage, which has purplish tinge or Diamine Earl Grey

These were in the "didn't come close" list.

 

2 hours ago, yazeh said:

 Inkebara Brown Grey

From the name, this stands a chance... But from online images, not really.

 

2 hours ago, yazeh said:

@LizEF Very complete.   I might bunch up all my swatches, minus Kiri-same and post it here.

 You never know, one might come close.

 

Just from online searching, Octopus Pebblestone might work.  But as you say, greys are hard to match and samples are your friends!  

[Penguincollector]

  What does everyone think of Sailor Yurameku Yoi?

It’s available from PenWorld in Belgium :

 

 Sailor Yurameku Yoi

 

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

  What does everyone think of Sailor Yurameku Yoi?

If accurate, it seems fairly close. A little more green, I think.

[Penguincollector]

13 minutes ago, LizEF said:

If accurate, it seems fairly close. A little more green, I think.

 These are so heavily paper dependent, too. I don’t have this one, but I will take a look at my swatches as well. @yoplaboum, what papers do you use? 

[yazeh]

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

These were in the "didn't come close" list.

Sorry I missed that part.

 

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

From the name, this stands a chance... But from online images, not really.

I have no point of reference. 

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

 

 You never know, one might come close.

I have too many.  I can't figure out if this is a brown-grey, blue-grey,  or what? I

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

 

Just from online searching, Octopus Pebblestone might work.  But as you say, greys are hard to match and samples are your friends!  

That's the only way. 

[LizEF]

6 minutes ago, yazeh said:

Sorry I missed that part.

No worries. I wouldn't expect you to peruse the list - I just recognized them.

 

7 minutes ago, yazeh said:

I have too many.  I can't figure out if this is a brown-grey, blue-grey,  or what? I

On my swatch card, Kiri-same is a brown grey.  Let me go get the Rhodia sheet and see...  Yep, very warm. In isolation, it does remind me of pencil, especially from my EF nib. But as soon as I write next to it with a pencil, that illusion ends.  

[yazeh]

 

34 minutes ago, LizEF said:

On my swatch card, Kiri-same is a brown grey.  Let me go get the Rhodia sheet and see...  Yep, very warm. In isolation, it does remind me of pencil, especially from my EF nib. But as soon as I write next to it with a pencil, that illusion ends.  

Yep. That's always the case, what we remember vs. what is.

 

[PithyProlix]

14 hours ago, LizEF said:

Kiri-same actually looks nothing like a pencil

 

I was going to write that (true even compared to a carbon pencil) but I didn't. 😉 (thanks)

 

14 hours ago, LizEF said:

Herbin Cacao du Brésil might be very close when diluted

 

That came to mind too.

L'Artisan Pastellier Classique Brun Ours is a similar taupe to Cacao du Bresil but, while Cacao leans a little purple, Brun Ours leans a little pink, so, when diluted, I bet it would be a better match to Kiri Same. L'AP Classique Marron and Noisette are pink browns - Noisette more pink than Marron - that might also be a good candidates for diluting to match Kiri Same but they might struggle to get the greyness of Kiri Same - hard to say without empirical testing.  (Note that Herbin, L'AP, and the original poster are all French, which might be a plus for him.)

 

All that said, the L'AP inks don't behave much like Iroshizuku inks and diluting them with water will make them behave even less like Kiri Same. Cacao is similar to the L'AP inks in this respect.

 

And, then, their interaction with different papers might be totally different than Kiri Same and, while we might be able to get a close match with some papers, that probably won't hold true for others.

 

@yoplaboum Check out this comparison of a bunch grey inks (though some are grey only in name): The Great Grey Fountain Pen Ink Comparison | Fountain Pen Love  My memory seems correct about the Stipula ink. (I believe the ink they are calling Dark Grey is actually Grigio Lava. Note that Stipula has another grey - Grigio Fumo - which is a cooler grey.)

[LizEF]

6 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

Check out this comparison of a bunch grey inks (though some are grey only in name): The Great Grey Fountain Pen Ink Comparison | Fountain Pen Love 

Graf von Faber-Castell Stone Grey looks like a darker version of Kiri-same to me.

 

MB Oyster Grey doesn't look too different.

 

But then, Kaweco Smokey Grey looks a lot more similar than it is on my swatch cards, so all this could be distortion from digitization.   (It never ceases to amaze me how inaccurate digital pictures can be.  )

[yazeh]

@PithyProlix @LizEF If I base myself on the scans/photos none of the inks resemble Kiri-same. I think some inks are difficult to find an exact match. And one has to discover and explore other inks.  

[LizEF]

21 minutes ago, yazeh said:

I think some inks are difficult to find an exact match. And one has to discover and explore other inks.  

And sometimes, what you find is better than the thing you wanted to replace!   Don't be afraid, just get a zillion samples and enjoy!