How do Italian fountain pens write?

[PhiloPlume]

Hi,

 

I am a Japanese pen and nib fan (Pilot, Platinum, and Sailor (only the XF Sailors now really as I think they write pretty wide for a Japanese pen/nib - but I have come to love the feedback).

 

I thought I would look into an Italian or other make pen (but not German as I no longer am a bog fan of JOWO nibs and do not like LAMYs or Pelikans at all - they don't seem as smooth and write a little too large for me).  I think the Platinum and Pilot XF and Fine pens and nibs are enjoyable to write with (Pilot's are pretty dull looking to me :-)).

 

So I have recently been curious about Italian made pens to maybe add to my collection.

 

Thanks

 

 

[lionelc]

give aurora a try - fine nibs are good, vintage fines are even better like on an aurora 88

[lamarax]

Seconded -- if you like the way Japanese nibs write (especially Sailor), try Aurora (for a quirk) 🙂

[PhiloPlume]

21 minutes ago, lionelc said:

give aurora a try - fine nibs are good, vintage fines are even better like on an aurora 88

Thanks!  More so than Scribo? Where would I look for these vintage fines available.  I don't understand what you mean by Aurora 88 and those.

 

[PhiloPlume]

2 minutes ago, lamarax said:

Seconded -- if you like the way Japanese nibs write (especially Sailor), try Aurora (for a quirk) 🙂

Which one(s), which nibs, and where do you suggest I buy one?

 

I have seen Aurora's for sale for hundreds of dollars - not sure if I want to spend that much now.

 

Thanks!

[lionelc]

vintage aurora 88s can be had for way less than the 300 usd ones you see on ebay - try ebaying for

Aurora Pen Fountain Pen 88 Piston Pen Gold Marking Vintage

 

or an insider tip - email gianluca casamento. lucantage@gmail.com, aka walipen

[lamarax]

6 minutes ago, PhiloPlume said:

Which one(s), which nibs, and where do you suggest I buy one?

 

I have seen Aurora's for sale for hundreds of dollars - not sure if I want to spend that much now.

 

Thanks!

 

That depends on what you like exactly from Japanese nibs (Pilot excluded). I'd suggest you get a <M> 14K first to try (both 88s and Optimas sport the same nibs). I think the "Talentum" line as well which is cheaper, has got the same nibs. 

 

Good thing about Aurora, is that they all come with ebonite feeds, so they're stiff and juicy, so they're a dream to write with a -reasonably- lubricated ink.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, PhiloPlume said:

… (only the XF Sailors now really as I think they write pretty wide for a Japanese pen/nib - but I have come to love the feedback).

 

I thought I would look into an Italian or other make pen …

 

The conclusion I've come to (expressed with a bit of hyperbole) is that Italians can't grind a sufficiently fine, fit-for-purpose, true-to-its-designation Extra Fine nib. Not Aurora — and we have umpteen Aurora fountain pens here, with gold and with steel nibs — even though Aurora's nibs are rightly reputed to produce kinaesthetic feedback (closer to that of Japanese nibs') other Western brands seem to be at pains to smoothen out when the latter's nibs are finished properly to the manufacturers' intent. Not SCRIBO; I'm not at all impressed with the line widths coming out of the 14K gold Flexible EF nib even when no downward pressure is applied, and from what I hear, even though the brand charges a (€50?) premium/‘tax’ on its 18K gold EEF nibs on account on the width grade (because it doesn't charge that for the 18K gold regular-not-Flexible EF nibs on the same pens, so it isn't on account of the gold alloy composition), those don't write finer than the average Sailor gold F nib. Not Santini Italia, even though Santini does the nib production and grinding all in-house and is open to customers' requests for specific/customised grinds; I asked for the finest possible grind on the EF nib, because the default ‘equivalence’ of EF=0.5mm for the brand doesn't appeal, and let's just say I'm happy with the company's excellent customer service, and will give it extra points of effort, but the actual outcome with regard to the nib width is… inadequate. Not Tibaldi, although I don't know that Tibaldi actually does anything in-house to the nibs that I believe it sources from German nib manufacturers.

 

I don't trust Visconti enough to even give the brand a go, so I can't comment on whether it can deliver a properly ground, truly Extra Fine nib.

[PhiloPlume]

13 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

The conclusion I've come to (expressed with a bit of hyperbole) is that Italians can't grind a sufficiently fine, fit-for-purpose, true-to-its-designation Extra Fine nib. Not Aurora — and we have umpteen Aurora fountain pens here, with gold and with steel nibs — even though Aurora's nibs are rightly reputed to produce kinaesthetic feedback (closer to that of Japanese nibs') other Western brands seem to be at pains to smoothen out when the latter's nibs are finished properly to the manufacturers' intent. Not SCRIBO; I'm not at all impressed with the line widths coming out of the 14K gold Flexible EF nib even when no downward pressure is

I am going to skip Scribo and their flex nib.  Pens are sort of weird looking and I have watched videos and comments of their flex nib and wasn't impressed. The Pilot Metal Falcon SF and SEF fountain pens are perfect for me in that regards.  Love them.  Not too much flex.  Minimal.

 

I cannot tell if you like Aurora fountain pens.  Sorry! 🙂

 

 

 

[PhiloPlume]

13 hours ago, lionelc said:

vintage aurora 88s can be had for way less than the 300 usd ones you see on ebay - try ebaying for

Aurora Pen Fountain Pen 88 Piston Pen Gold Marking Vintage

 

or an insider tip - email gianluca casamento. lucantage@gmail.com, aka walipen

Found some here.  Not sure which one to get.  Some are used and only $190. I am up for that!

***https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Aurora+Pen+Fountain+Pen+88+Piston+Pen+Gold+Marking+Vintage+fine+nib&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_odkw=Aurora+Pen+Fountain+Pen+88+Piston+Pen+Gold+Marking+Vintage+&_osacat=0

[lionelc]

dont get the ones from japan, prices seem inflated - if you have time wait a bit, prices <$200 usd the norm.  aim for an 88 or 88k with a fine nib

if you are into history - see - 

 

[PhiloPlume]

1 hour ago, lionelc said:

dont get the ones from japan, prices seem inflated - if you have time wait a bit, prices <$200 usd the norm.  aim for an 88 or 88k with a fine nib

if you are into history - see - 

 

I want that, but I do want an everyday writer. 🙂  but not a small pen.  The Platinums and especially Sailor's are almost pocket pen sized to me.  I will look for an 88 since I don't know what the k means.  You are right.  The ones from Japan are expensive. 

 

Thanks!

[torstar]

Auroras are my most trusted for daily workhorse tasks, a few Talentums and my most enjoyed Afrika are always in rotation. 

 

Deltas have been good to me also.

[davisgt]

This thread prompted me to look through my collection,  only to realize I don't have a single Italian fountain pen. I was honestly a little shocked.  

[A Smug Dill]

7 hours ago, PhiloPlume said:

I cannot tell if you like Aurora fountain pens.

 

My wife and I do, but not blindly.

 

I chose an Aurora fountain pen to bring with me to sign the paperwork on our wedding day. We each have multiple Ottantotto and Optima piston-fillers in our personal pen fleets, because we like them. Additionally, I have pens in the Alpha, Talentum, Ipsilon, and Tu models. Aurora's gold nibs are generally pretty good (although I've seen ones that were atrocious on arrival, and had to be rejected and returned, or replaced) but they aren't fit substitutes for Japanese EF nibs when it comes to putting down fine lines of ink.

[PhiloPlume]

49 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

My wife and I do, but not blindly.

 

I chose an Aurora fountain pen to bring with me to sign the paperwork on our wedding day. We each have multiple Ottantotto and Optima piston-fillers in our personal pen fleets, because we like them. Additionally, I have pens in the Alpha, Talentum, Ipsilon, and Tu models. Aurora's gold nibs are generally pretty good (although I've seen ones that were atrocious on arrival, and had to be rejected and returned, or replaced) but they aren't fit substitutes for Japanese EF nibs when it comes to putting down fine lines of ink.

Thank you! No rush for me to get one.  Thank you for your comment about the comparison to the Japanese EF nibs.

 

[PhiloPlume]

2 hours ago, davisgt said:

This thread prompted me to look through my collection,  only to realize I don't have a single Italian fountain pen. I was honestly a little shocked.  

I don't either hehe. I thought it was about time for me but no rush now.

[AmandaW]

Hmmm... let me look. Japan, China, Germany,  a few from the USA  a couple from the UK and Australia,  one from France. 

 

Nothing Italian at all.

 

Edit to add: Three from Slovenia

[Dillo]

If you are looking Italian, the Aurora would be the only one I would consider seriously for what you are looking for. For Aurora, the small sized nibs on the Ipsilon and similar have an excellent plastic feed. The ebonite feed is only on the large sized nib you see on the 88, Optima, and Talentum. They are not anywhere near as fine as the Japanese nibs are. You may have to end up writing bigger.

 

There are some vintage Aurora 88, but you have to make sure it is a restored pen. I would recommend the models 88P or 88K instead of just 88 if you are looking vintage. Those are revised versions. The 88P is considered more reliable feedwise, but they all work well. The new 88 is a completely different animal but writes just as well. It's wider than the classic vintage 88 and its variants. The new Optima and 88 are basically the same pens with differently shaped piston knob and cap tops.

 

I've seen the Santini in house nibs, and I haven't been impressed with the finish quality and the grinds on the tips. A lot of the others like Leonardo use JoWo nibs in their pens.

[PhiloPlume]

2 hours ago, Dillo said:

If you are looking Italian, the Aurora would be the only one I would consider seriously for what you are looking for. For Aurora, the small sized nibs on the Ipsilon and similar have an excellent plastic feed. The ebonite feed is only on the large sized nib you see on the 88, Optima, and Talentum. They are not anywhere near as fine as the Japanese nibs are. You may have to end up writing bigger.

No more than 4mm or so X-height , preferably 3-3.5mm.  Personal handwriting, cards, letters and notes.... 

 

I will look for the pens you suggested!  Sounds tricky!

 

Thank you so much.