Lamy Studio transform rollerball to fountain pen?

[Michael R.]

Can you transform a Lamy Studio rollerball to fountain pen by replacing the rollerball section with a fountain pen section?
 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

[jcoersen]

Yes, but the converter or cartridge is not supported by the back. (so it can come loose)

 

[Michael R.]

thank you for your helpful insight - I will give it a try then.

[encremental]

I think people use this combo (rollerball back end / FP front) to make an eyedropper, which might be worth a try!

 

John

[Anne-Sophie]

On 7/5/2024 at 4:48 PM, encremental said:

I think people use this combo (rollerball back end / FP front) to make an eyedropper, which might be worth a try!

 

John

 

I would be a bi nervous doing that with a metal pen.

[Dillo]

On 7/5/2024 at 5:48 PM, encremental said:

I think people use this combo (rollerball back end / FP front) to make an eyedropper, which might be worth a try!

 

John

 

From what I understand, this only applies to the Safari models because the Safari models don't have the ink window cutouts on the rollerball barrels. This does not apply to the Studio models that the OP is referring to.

 

The Lamy Studio models are strongly not recommended for any eye dropper use. They often have brass fittings and other metal fittings in the barrel that can easily corrode when exposed to ink. Ink can often corrode metals other than the types of stainless steel used for nibs, gold, titanium, and a few other metals. I've even seen the stainless steel Kaweco sports develop surface rust from exposure. I have a stainless Kaweco Liliput on its way to me to do some (possibly destructive) testing. Kaweco recently released a converter for the Liliput, and I'm trying to see how it will fare. The aluminum Liliput pens are well known for significant corrosion issues from ink. Brass and aluminum are often very readily attacked by ink. In the case of brass, I often find the plating peeling off and green verdigris forming. I had several cases where aluminum got attacked by ink to the point where it became porous and eventually crumbled away. I even have a pitted hole corroded into my aluminum bodied laptop computer where the ink sat and I neglected to clean it off. The hole goes deep, and it progressively attacked it over the course of days and weeks. Even after cleaning, it still seems to be actively eating the metal. I tried to get something aluminum that was damaged bead blasted and reanodized, but the bead blasting simply tore out all the porous sections, revealing how deep the damage was.

[Azulado]

8 hours ago, Dillo said:

Brass and aluminum are often very readily attacked by ink.

Now I understand why the aluminium of the Lamy Aion repels ink. I noticed that when I cleaned the section after dipping it into the inkwell, there was no ink at all. The lip of the section is very exposed to the ink, if it did not repel ink it would corrode very quickly. Perhaps this precaution was not taken with the Kaweco Liliput, a model that, by the way, is on my wish list. 

[Dillo]

Regardless of the grip section repelling ink or not, I would be wary of anything aluminum coming in contact with ink. The coatings they may or may not use may have a limited life. Any breaches of the coating will allow corrosion to occur. A lot of times, anodized surfaces appear to repel ink, but they are not a perfect barrier and eventually corrosion starts forming. The aluminum Kaweco Liliput is fully anodized as well, and that does not prevent it from suffering corrosion problems.

 

That said, I avoid pens like the Lamy Aion like the plague. The Al-Star avoids this issue by not using aluminum in the grip section. Careful use will probably keep the Aion looking good, but I don't expect any miracles. Lamy makes some nice things, but I don't consider the Aion a good design for this reason

[Azulado]

7 hours ago, Dillo said:

Lamy makes some nice things, but I don't consider the Aion a good design for this reason

I was not aware of the vulnerability of aluminium when I bought the Lamy Aion. The section thread is made of steel and it is very difficult for ink to build up in the grip area. Consequently, I consider the only vulnerable point to be the lip. As it rubs against the cap when we put it on, I think this is the only area where the coating could deteriorate. I will certainly be very careful about cleaning this area. I will also be looking into what inks might be less aggressive.
I've googled Aion corrosion and found nothing. The model has been in production since 2017 and I think it has sold well. If it was a recurring problem there would be reports of a case. The search on the Lilliput gives results and I was even able to see photos. It's funny, it's a model I like and I had read several reviews and comments about the model. Of course, they are usually reviewed when they are new

[Azulado]

The fact that aluminium is rarely used in pen manufacture suggests that manufacturers are fully aware of its problems. However, I believe that both Lamy and Kaweco engineers were aware of its dangers when they developed the Aion and the Lilliput respectively. I understand that they relied on the strength of the anodised coating.
So far, only evidence of corrosion has been detected on the Liliput. From user testimonials, there are cases of pens many years old that have not presented any problems and cases where corrosion has started within a few months of use. I am inclined to think that there may be a problem at the production stage. Some units come out defective. But it could also be that there are careless users.
This puzzles me. Gutberlet, the owner of Kaweco, has a company that manufactures parts for writing instruments. Works for many prestigious brands. We assume that his knowledge is highly specialised. It is absolutely impossible that he is unaware of the possibility of faults in the Lilliput.

https://www.gutberlet-partners.com/en/

In one of the threads I consulted, someone contacted Kaweco and they replied that the problem was due to misuse. I would have liked a more detailed answer. If the Lilliput is sensitive to certain factors, Kaweco should alert buyers to this in the instruction manual.
The Lamy Aion is a very risky and complex design. They could have used another material for the section, but the homogeneous texture of the whole pen was a key feature of the design. The curvature of the cap made it necessary to create a complex system of overlapping inner liners. The fit is so precise that when there is a slight deflection, the cap wobbles a little. For me, this is not a problem, the closure is secure. But it has prompted a lot of complaints. As Lamy hasn't said anything, it's difficult to say whether there is a technical reason for the wobble.

 

[Azulado]

Kaweco's response to an Al Sport user:

 

Dear Holly

Thanks for your message. We are pleased about your friendship to Kaweco.

Yes, it is correct, that the AL Sport Raw is a sensitive product as you need to keep the pen – especially the threadings always clean and dry, otherwise the aluminium can react bad (it can oxidate in some cases).

Also some Vaseline on the threadings works wonders.

We hope that this information helps and wish you all the best.

Keep on hand-writing. J

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Christiane De La Rosa

Sales & Export Manager

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/319917-kaweco-sport-al-raw-possibility-of-thread-galling/

 

2017 thread.

[Dillo]

I think the difference is because I used to repair pens in large numbers, so I notice instances of corrosion a lot more easily than many people might. It's usually fairly easy for me to spot, even before most people tend to notice it. That said, aluminum is a very active metal that easily reacts. I have pens that use the material, but not in any place where it might come in contact with ink, and many makers shield it using plastic sleeves and others so that it's exclusively on the outside of the cap or barrel. I have had pitting on the outsides of some aluminum pens happen before though. When pens come to me and I clean them before they come back, sometimes you see a lot of ink coming out of places where it probably shouldn't and getting in between parts. Ink getting stuck between seams in pens can often be a significant problem point. With the Liliput for example, it's usually between the plastic nib and feed housing and the metal. Kaweco stainless steel sports can also develop surface rust from what I have seen. On my TWSBI with the Al grip section, I replaced the grip section for a plastic one. The Al sports also get corrosion between the plastic nib and feed housing and the metal. Because the metal is fairly thick and people don't take the nib unit out, they often don't notice the problem as soon.

[Azulado]

11 hours ago, Dillo said:

I have pens that use the material, but not in any place where it might come in contact with ink, and many makers shield it using plastic sleeves and others so that it's exclusively on the outside of the cap or barrel.

I see that care in pens like the Lamy Al Star or the Nexx.

I consulted with an engineer friend of mine and he told me that anodized aluminum is quite strong and does not shed material from the surface. He warned me to distinguish anodized aluminum from anodizing with electrostatic paint.

As I said, I have not found any cases of Aion with corrosion on Google. The Lamy Aion is made with anodized aluminum. Even so, it looks like it has been carefully constructed. The thread section is made of steel. In addition, there is a sleeve between the inside of the section and the feed.

I have a Kaweco DIA2 and a Kaweco Student. I usually take the unit out to clean them and never see ink residue. But it's true what you say, it's normal for people to neglect cleaning the pens. I can well imagine everything you say. I just got a Lamy Safari Alpin from the 80's and it has dried ink in large quantities in places where it shouldn't be. Even a superficial rinse would prevent that, let alone a careful cleaning.

 

[Dillo]

The damage I usually see on aluminum is where the material is attacked under the surface causing the anodization layer to peel off or flake. Pinholes, scrapes, and damage that disturbs the anodized layer can easily cause this. I come from a family of engineers, and I have submitted designs for manufacturing and done all of these sorts of things. I know the difference between anodization and electrostatic paint and other coatings. I also know the difference between different types of anodization coatings because these are specified when submitting designs for manufacturing.

What I am speaking of here is not theoretical. I'm talking about a lot of things I have seen in the field and verified experimentally. I don't have an interest in testing a Lamy Aion at this point, but as long as it stays intact, I hope it stays in one piece for you. Let me make it clear that I am not attacking your choice of pen. People will continue buying and using these pens, but I think it's important to know of things that can affect the longevity of these things so that precautions can be taken and people can keep them for a long time. Most things will break eventually, but if you can keep it in good condition, you can enjoy it longer. I own a pen with a metal section not suitable for ink exposure. I refill it by pulling out a cartridge and filling that with a pipette and inserting it. I've done that for more than a decade and it's still surviving just fine, but I know how quickly the grip section on that pen can corrode because I've seen other examples where the grip is really chewed up

[Azulado]

@Dillo,

Thank you for taking the time to explain the possible problems that ink can cause on aluminium. The Kaweco Liliput is on my wish list. If I end up buying it, I won't be able to say I was unaware of the risks. As for the Aion, I use it almost every day, but I am very careful with it. The aluminium of this pen is not very resistant to shocks, I have seen pictures of dented bodies. I've already had to fix the cap lip after it fell off.

 

 

 

[Dillo]

@Azulado Anyhow, just an hour ago, I got my Stainless steel Liliput in the post. I got mine from Missing Pen (.com) in Germany, and mine actually came with a converter inside. It's the new Kaweco folding converter for the Liliput. My initial analysis on the pen itself showed that the cap (which has no inner cap-just bare metal) and the grip section are machined from a different stainless steel alloy than the barrel. The finish is different and they have very little magnetism-clearly an austenitic variety. The barrel has slightly stronger magnetism and reminds me of 303 which is also austenitic but not as corrosion resistant as the much less magnetic 316 or 304 grades. I just bottle filled the pen and we shall see what happens. I can't say if older Liliputs are all made from the same stainless steel alloy, but I can say that this one I just got uses a different alloy that appears more corrosion resistant for the grip section and cap. If you are looking at a Liliput, I'd recommend you pick one up from them since I know you'll be getting one just like mine. I don't have proper metal alloy analysis machines where I am at to do a real tests to see exactly what alloy, but it would be nice to do. I will be using the pen in the next months to see what happens. I put in a relatively low Ph ink that doesn't usually damage any of my pens to see what will happen

[Azulado]

@Dillo Two of my most recent purchases are metal models, a Lamy ST 45 and an Inoxcrom Zeppelin. Both have double inner cap liners. Only the lip of the cap is exposed, a very small area. Another of my metal-cap pens, the Faber-Castell Ambition, is also fully protected.
I also have quite a few metal Inoxcroms that I bought second hand. At least one of them was in very bad condition. However, after cleaning it, I found no rust. I also bought a second hand Parker 180 which had a good layer of dried ink on it. It may have been there for many years, I had trouble removing it. However, I did not notice any deterioration.
In any case, I am surprised that the steel Liliput does not have an inner cap. I think Kaweco knows what it is doing. Remember that the inside of a cap does not usually get a lot of ink unless it is badly maintained. As a precaution, it's always a good idea to wash the cap, it doesn't take more than a minute, I even do it with my plastic pens.
With metal caps, it is not possible to have only one inner cap, as with the Sport Classic. You need one to seal and one to protect. My wife has got ink behind the inner cap of a Sport and can only get it out with the centrifuge of the washing machine. Maybe the double inner cap was too thick for a minimal pen.

[Dillo]

@Azulado With the Parker 180, most of the problems I've seen have to do with the trim ring around the nib. Out of the ones I've handled here, only one out of five of the ones I've handled was intact. The rest were corroded, some were very seriously so. Problems in the inside of the cap are very common if there are brass plugs or steel screws in there. For pens that have steel screws inside there, I have replaced the ones I could replace with 316L stainless, and that can stand on its own without any corrosion issues. For pens with brass fasteners in the cap, it's very common to find Lamy 2000 and older Aurora 88/98 with corrosion on the brass button inside the cap. I usually take the brass piece out, clean the corrosion, reinstall the brass piece, and apply a wax plug that can be easily removed if the cap needs to be disassembled. The plug seals against the plastic inner cap to completely seal the brass away from the ink. The Majohn Ti200 also has a similar brass piece in the cap, and I have applied the wax plug there as well. As long as the wax plug is applied to shield the brass button or screw and is monitored regularly to ensure that it's intact, there is no corrosion. I have a whole collection of vintage Auroras that have the plug and I have three Lamy 2000 pens with the plug, and none of them have issues even after more than a decade of use, even with fairly corrosive inks. In contrast, every well used Lamy 2000 I've had come in has had corrosion on the brass piece. It's an extremely common problem, and I've seen more than twenty Lamy 2000 from different vintages. The surface usually turns rough and there is a buildup of green verdigris.

 

The Lamy ST 45 I have familiarity with. It's a cousin of the CP1. I have not seen many issues with those pens. The stainless material they are made of is fairly resistant, but it is generally well protected. I haven't seen much trouble with the CP1 and its cousins in general either. I have one of them made of stainless steel, and my mom has two made of brass. The design isolates the metal from any ink in normal use.

 

With the steel screws inside the caps, usually I see damage within a week or two. I recently wrote to a pen maker showing how quickly the corrosion progressed and showed them the 316L screws I was able to source after the same period of use, and they are going to change the inner screw holding the cap together. There are quite a few pens with steel screws like this, off the shelf, the Majohn 80S and Jinhao 51A come to mind. I have bags of 316L stainless fasteners just for these sorts of situations.

 

For the Liliput, even the all aluminum ones have no inner cap. When I was examining the pen, it seems that the wings of the nib are almost the same width as the grip section. It's impossible to have a setup with an inner cap on that pen without making the cap thicker. This said, the aluminum Liliput is very notorious for corrosion. I don't think I can make the assertion that "they know what they are doing." Especially after all the corrosion I have seen.

 

There are three places where I often see damage if corrosion resistant materials are not used, the inside of the cap, trim rings on the lip of the grip section, and the grip section. Most nibs are made from corrosion resistant materials. I've seen Parker Sonnets, Parker 75, and Montblanc 144 with destroyed trim rings on the lip of the grip section.

[Azulado]

On 11/11/2024 at 3:18 PM, Dillo said:

I've seen Parker Sonnets, Parker 75, and Montblanc 144 with destroyed trim rings on the lip of the grip section.

I have a 1994 Parker Sonnet with that ring (gold) badly corroded. 

Your explanations have been like putting glasses on a myopic person, now I can't stop seeing imperfections in my pens with metal parts. 

About Kaweco, I speak based on my experience. I think their quality of workmanship is exceptional, both in the budget pens such as the Sport Classic, as well as in the more refined ones. On the other hand, they make metal parts for Faber-Castel and Lamy, among others.

Two of my favourite pens are a Student and a DIA2. I have just looked carefully at their sections. They are a year old and so far so good, but I have noticed that dried ink residue can remain between the housing and the bottom edge of the section. I'm particularly careful, but even so some soiling can't be avoided. I'll keep an eye on that area a bit more, but you think about it and you can't get obsessed about it either, as you'll end up using only pens like the Lamy Safari. For the future, if I want a metal model, I'll make sure beforehand how it's made. 
Now I remember a Youtube video by Otto Hutt. They do a lot of work with metal. You wonder if they don't overdo it with the manufacturing processes. Now I understand it better. 

During the restoration, I did not manage to remove the feed, let alone the metal ring. A bad experience with a Pelikan M150 (I broke the feed) has made me more cautious. 

Another surprise was the mouthpiece of the Faber Castell Ambitión. I saw a corrosion start between the housing and the inside of the section, near the lip. Technically, I don't know if it is real corrosion. But it appears with a matt tone. I rubbed it with aluminium foil and salt water. I have now mounted it by applying silicone grease to the area to be preserved. 

About brass, last week I received a 1985 Lamy Safari Alpin, second generation. It had been stored in a toolbox since 2009 and had not been cleaned of ink. It looked like I had dug it up in an excavation. The inner cap is crumbled. The base is brass. Had a lot of dried ink residue around it. 
I suspect the cap was never cleaned. The inner cup was early grey to white, and was full of various coloured markings. The brass can be said to have held up heroically. It appears to have micro-pitting. Only noticeable with a magnifying glass or microscope. I had already thought of putting beeswax, but not to prevent corrosion, but to prevent possible leaks. It's a difficult thing to do, because that happens when there is a problem in the pumice and leaks occur. But in that area I admit that the metal makes me uneasy. 

About brass, last week I received a 1985 Lamy Safari Alpin, second generation. It had been stored in a toolbox since 2009 and had not been cleaned of ink. It looked like I had dug it up in an excavation. The inner cap is crumbled. The base is brass. Had a lot of dried ink residue around it. 
I suspect the cap was never cleaned. The inner cup was early grey to white, and was full of various coloured markings. The brass can be said to have held up heroically. It appears to have micro-pitting. Only noticeable with a magnifying glass or microscope. I had already thought of putting beeswax, but not to prevent corrosion, but to prevent possible leaks. It's a difficult thing to do, because that happens when there is a problem in the pumice and leaks occur. But in that area I admit that the metal makes me uneasy. 
I mentioned the matter to my engineer friend to whom I referred in another point and he told me that he would also put a wax plug, but more because brass has nickel which acts as a catalyst in chemical reactions that degrade the ink.

[Azulado]

@Dillo I cleaned the Kaweco Student and DIA2. Both had ink concentrated in the beginning of the section, between the housing and its inner wall, the rest was clean. There were some marks of other old ink after cleaning. After the area was completely clean, I applied silicone grease and closed it. I think there will be no problems. I must say that the chrome plating looked in excellent condition. Both pens are about a year old and I use them daily.

I applied a mixture of lemon and baking soda to the Parker 180. Amazingly, more of the old ink came out. When I restored it, I had it cleaned for over a week. Lemon and baking soda are definitely quite effective on ink stains.
I would also like to recommend a very effective rust remover, a mixture of sodium percarbonate and baking soda. I use it as a laundry bleach, a product of the Brazilian brand Positiva. Mixed with lemon it is even more energetic. It left the screw of the Safari Alpin spotless. I had already used a lot of products without success. Apparently something similar is used for cleaning engines, but with the help of electrolysis. I saw a video on Youtube and it looks amazing.