Rhodia too skiddy?

[Claes]

Many praise Rhodia 90 GSM "ivory high grade vellum paper".  But, personally, I find it far too skiddy -- I prefer a bit of "tooth", thus achieving better precision.

 

Agree or not?

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, Claes said:

I prefer a bit of "tooth", thus achieving better precision.

 

That's why I use Sailor and Platinum fountain pens (and I don't mean the low-end models Sailor Profit Jr. and Platinum Preppy, although they have their place) most of all when I want to enjoy the writing experience while maintaining good control of the outcome on the page. Kinaesthetic feedback produced by the nib against either smooth or toothy paper is, as you alluded, required for precise pen strokes.

[Baggins]

Thank you for bringing up this topic. 
I even prefer the Rhodia 80gsm to the 90gsm. I prefer Japanese thin papers though. For wetter pens maybe 🤔 but: “SMOOTH IS GOOD” 😂
 

[arcfide]

Frankly I'm still hunting down my ideal combination. I've come to realize what I want is an extremely wet line that doesn't disappear onto the page too quickly (quick dry inks don't deliver the same experience) and with a nib that feels more like silk than either glass or graphite. That silken feeling is just what gives me sufficient control without causing too much drag to inhibit free motion. 

 

What I've found is that most pens lack either the silken feel or the wetness, and the papers don't seem to make up for this completely. I'm also picky about form factor, and I find that many otherwise good papers lose out because they come packaged in a form factor that doesn't work for me. 

 

I haven't been super enamored with Rhodia 90GSM, but I do use it to good effect. It doesn't feel too slick to me, but I do think it takes ink less well than the 90GSM Clairefontaine vellum paper. 

 

What I like in a paper is one with really good glide, but that might have some "feedback" in it. It's all about getting that silken quality of writing. If the paper is too toothy, there's just a lot of drag and dryness. If it's too smooth, then you don't get any sensation with the pen. 

 

 

[Claes]

How about Tomoe? 

[arcfide]

1 hour ago, Claes said:

How about Tomoe? 

 

I've found Tomoe River paper to be okay, but somewhat hard to handle. It also doesn't quite feel silken. It takes ink well, in that it doesn't suffer from being too hydrophobic, and it has reasonably good glide, but the feedback is...rougher, for lack of a better term. I actually think the feedback and feel of Kokuyo THIN paper is a little better, but that paper takes ink so well that it can be hard to calibrate the right nib and ink because nibs tend to write a size broader on it. 

 

I really enjoyed writing with my Sailor KOP B nib and Sailor Blue ink on Masuya Monokaki writing paper, and that might be close to an ideal paper for me, but it still isn't quite perfect, and I would prefer to be able to get a white paper as well as an ivory/cream paper. 

 

The overall feel of Tsubame Fools paper is pretty good, but it has more drag and can tend to make very broad nibs (which I like) have issues with not laying down a saturated enough line with some inks. However, I think that Tsubame paper is objectively some of the best performing paper out there. 

 

I really like the feel of Apica's A.Silky 865 Premium paper, but it doesn't resist ink as well as it could. Since that paper seems to be good enough for wet pens and dry inks (such as Pelikan 4001 or Edelstein), I'm thinking that the solution might be to use that paper together with dry inks. That would prevent the spot bleeding that I sometimes see from the paper, but still let me have the soft writing experience. However, that paper can be hard to get in the line ruling that I like (8mm+, preferably 9mm or 10mm). 

 

Overall, I just can't quite dial it all in! 

[Claes]

I understand you.

Your have three parameters to play with: ink, paper, pen 🙂

If each parameter can be is "good, medium, bad", then you just have nine combinations to look for 🙂

[Claes]

I am toying with an idea to make the proper selection easier. Will think more tomorrow... G'nite!

[XYZZY]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:26 AM, Claes said:

I understand you.

Your have three parameters to play with: ink, paper, pen 🙂

If each parameter can be is "good, medium, bad", then you just have nine combinations to look for 🙂

3**3 is 27, not nine.  The thing, though, is that the parameters are not independent.

 

I only just recently finished my first notebook of Rhodia paper and regret that I bought a second.  "Too skiddy" is an apt description for my dislike.  It also makes many of my nibs squeak when writing.  I had read about squeaking before and thought "Oh, cool!" the first time that happened, but after page 1 it was just annoying.  Aside from those two things, though, the paper did great with the inks that I used.

[Baggins]

The Rhodia 90gsm vellum paper does feel different from the clairefountaine triomphe 90gsm. But being both described as 90gsm vellum, by the same manufacturer. There should be some kind of reported parameter to distinguish them? 
 

have you tried Life Writing Paper?

[Claes]

Not yet 😀

Oxford Optik paper looks promising as well.

[arcfide]

I've found Oxford Optik to feel a little more absorbent and a little more "dry" than Clairefontaine 90GSM (not the Rhodia), with a slight bit more drag, but not much. L. Writing Paper from LIFE is smoother than both, but with more drag, exhibiting a little more waxy feel, but not to the same degree as some other papers like Kokuyo MIO. I've found L. Writing Paper to have some of the strongest ink resistance of any paper, and it is quite similar to Tsubame Fools paper. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

 

Butter smooth can be a pain.

 

Back in the day of B&W TV, on the lower tier pens like Esterbrook, Wearever, Sheaffer school pens; were not butter smooth, in my memory....which is why I call springy nibbed pens like the Pelikan 200 regular flex. Smooth with no drag.

 

One should over the years have a nib that is not real smooth...in I don't go after butter smooth in the first place (got 3-4 of course) , I have what I call 'good and smooth' the stage directly under butter smooth. A tad of touch. When I smoothed drag away from old nibs, I didn't want, so didn't do the long hard work for butter smooth. Just enough to be good and smooth.

That might give one a bit of feel.

 

Toothy... is like a wood pencil or MP.

 

Aurora is known for 'toothy' nibs. At the end of their great semi-flex nibs era, I tried one of the very many ornate Verdi pens on sale at my B&M. Having brought a 'normal' Geha 725 semi-flex nibbed pen, the Verdi was toothy; even more than expected, but EF on Europe's narrowest brand, is something to be expected..............something for a real slick paper, and one would still have feeling, even then...I assume.

 

I do have a toothy nib somewhere; which it was I've forgotten.

One needs one, just like one needs a butter smooth.

IMO, middle of the road is better.

 

If one finds a paper too slick....and one has enough pens, one could rough up the nib for a second or two on the less rough of the two sides on a buff stick,  and then go back and smooth for a couple seconds on the smooth side of the buff stick. That should make it somewhat toothy.

 

I noticed many noobies, wished Butter Smooth at all costs....a couple came back after a year and wanted to get rid of Butter Smooth... I gave them my buff stick advice.

 

I have some Avery Zweckform 170g slicker than s**** paper. It is a great paper for any ink that has dreams of shading; much less real shading inks...but it feels more than a bit too slick.

I don't have Rhoda 80g, but do have the 90g. Going to get some 80g some day, in I need to find out why the 90g is not liked by some.

 

I do of course have some CT. A slick paper.

Not slick, but  good shading paper, I like Oxford Optic 90g which I find = to Clairefontaine Velot 90g, or the new German 70g Kyome. That paper is well coated to get shading at 70g.

[Wil D]

On 6/7/2024 at 4:18 PM, Claes said:

Not yet 😀

Oxford Optik paper looks promising as well.

That is what I use most with my vintage pens.

[justsomerandombloke]

1) Of Clairefontaine brands, the Clairefontaine brushed vellum 90gsm is the smoothest. Sometimes a bit skiddy indeed.

2) Rhodia 90gsm is better than 1)

3) Rhodia 80gsm is better than 2)

 

Right now I'm using a Rhodiarama notebook with the 'Premium 90g ivory vellum paper' + Decimo M + Waterman Absolute Brown and it feels very good. Very smooth without being slippery.

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 hour ago, justsomerandombloke said:

 Clairefontaine brushed vellum 90gsm is the smoothest. Sometimes a bit skiddy indeed.

2) Rhodia 90gsm is better than 1)

3) Rhodia 80gsm is better than 2)

I have Clairefontaine Triomphe 90g, I've never heard of the brushed vellum. 

 

I also have Clairefontaine Velout` 90g spiral notebooks....that match as equal to my Oxford Optic 90g. (I have a small supply of both of them.)

 I have a Rhoda 90g spiral notebook in squares. Got an Oxford in squares also. I find I don't use them as often as lined.

One of these days, I'll have to get some Rhodia 80g. Been saying that for quite awhile, but I'm old-fashioned....run into papers hand on. (Got to put brushed vellum  on my list.)

Got to get up to date and pay postage. I often cheap out in the wrong places.

....................

I didn't find Triomphe to be as skiddy as many say, but I have very few butter smooth nibbed pens. Smooth, yes. Then which ink would have to come into play for skating smooth paper....WAG.

[justsomerandombloke]

What Clairefontaine calls 'brushed vellum' is pretty easy to get as it's in the Europa series of their notebooks for example.

[antares1966]

I have a couple Clairefontaine pads, and they are definitely the smoothest paper I’ve ever used.  Almost too much so.  It also significantly increases the drying time of most of my inks.

 

I’ll give some love to Midori MD.  More of a matte look and feel, and seems to highlight sheen really well, if one is into such things.