Home Made Ink (Mostly Ig) & **tips And Tricks**

[fiberdrunk]

For those who make their own homemade inks (like iron gall), I finally found a pen that works for my pomegranate (iron gall) ink at least. I did a review of the Pilot Parallel Pen here. I'm glad to have finally found a pen that works so I don't have to keep dipping!

[fiberdrunk]

Just a heads-up for the iron gall ink makers here. I found another pen that you can use your inks in safely: The Platinum Preppy Marker. It has pretty much all plastic parts as far as I can tell, so your ink won't corrode it (hopefully). I blogged about it here.

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/5580205486_af95e6256d_z.jpg

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5580203620_9cc18eb171_z.jpg

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5015/5580213784_964bb5329e_z.jpg

 

So now there are 2 safe options for your more destructive inks :embarrassed_smile: : The Platinum Preppy Marker and the Pilot Parallel Pen. (Alas, my black walnut inks didn't really work in them... in the marker, it put down a pale line. I'll probably try pokeberry ink in the marker when the berries ripen this summer, for fun.)

 

eta: messed up inserting an image

Edited April 1, 2011 by fiberdrunk

[ville900]

After experimenting with several recipes I have found the optimal formula for a very nice iron gall ink which freely flows from my cheap papermate fountain pen. For those having access to these chemicals and the apropriate instruments, this is the recipe:

 

-Lamy Black fountain pen ink 30 ml (diluted to 500 ml, the shade becomes a dark blue)

-3.85 gram gallic acid monohydrate Ph. Eur.

-11.70 gram tannic acid Ph. Eur.

-15.00 gram ferrous sulphate crystals (Fe(II)SO₄.7H₂O)

-1.00 gram salicylic acid (a safe substitute to the dangerous preservative phenol, which gives that typical smell to vintage inks)

-5.00 ml hydrochloric acid 25 %

-25 ml glycerol (water free glycerine)

-boiled destilled water up to 500 ml

 

I tried with anilin blue before as described in the orignal "Urkundetinte" recipe by the german government, but the anilin blue was not pure enough which causes a formation of sediment in a few days time in the bottle. If you can purchase the purest anilin blue W.S (water soluble) version, which is completely sulfonated then you will not experience a formation of sediment. I discovered Lamy black ink contains a dye that does not cause a sediment with the ink formule and in the aforementioned concentration the shade is a nice deep blue (similar to the MB midnight blue). According to the original formula if one uses the right quality anilin blue W.S., the ink can be kept for years without depositing any sediment in the bottle. So the type of dye is very important. Good iron gall ink will not deposit any sediment in a well closed container for at least many years. A good alternative to anilin blue W.S. is indigocarmine (2.50 grams per 500 ml).

 

Do not try the cheaper methylene blue, which is very water soluble and has a very nice colour, but it will cause a rapid formation of sediment in a few days time with the tannic acid. The glycerol is added to modify the ink flow, as gum arabic is beneficial for dip pens, not for fountain pens.

 

This ink flows freely from my test fountain pen with a nice greyish blue teint and turns into a nice completely waterproof black.

 

I am still testing the ink and after a few days intensive usage it behaves remarkedly well in my cheap papermate fountain pen. I wil report back how the ink behaves in the future.

 

Hello,

 

I have received 2 days ago, a large bottle of the iron gall ink home-made by pharmacist after a long story with the postal system .

 

I haven't had time to properly try it but I couldn't wait and loaded a pen with it yesterday night. My first impression is that it's really great:

- fluidity,

- black colour after drying (seems to depend a lot on the paper though but nothing unusual I guess with this type of ink),

- water resistance (perfect),

- no feathering at all.

 

These are first comments and I'm not an expert with inks. This is my first time with iron gall ink so I hope you'll forgive the basic nature of my comments.

 

I'll do a more thorough review and will post it. I have already written a few pages on different kinds of paper and done some scans that I'll hopefully be able to post tonight.

 

Actually I don't know where is the best place to post the review: here as a follow-up to this thread? or somewhere else on FPN?

 

So far, it seems to be a really great ink and I must thank pharmacist for that.

[ville900]

Here's my first samples done today, using the same pen (old basic sheaffer pen, all plastic and steel nib) and 4 different papers

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/14dq438.jpg

 

http://i56.tinypic.com/2lw6f61.jpg

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/2a9rv4h.jpg

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/hrbibc.jpg

 

A great ink with no feathering. I let another sheet of paper written with that night all night soaking in water : the ink is still absolutely unchanged, no blurring at all.

[pharmacist]

Hi Ville900,

 

On some papers (without bleaching or optical brighteners) the ink can stay a bluish-grey for several days before it will become black ultimately. For the moment you will have enough ink for decades to come :clap1: . The writing will become blacker if you expose the written page in open air (oxidation) for several days. On some papers it turns black immediately on others it will stay bluish-grey for several days before turning into black.

 

I use this home-brewed ink now for almost a year now without problems in my cheap fountain pens. The only problem seems to be in my MB, which seems to be very tricky with the particular ink used. It seems to deal only well with the MB Midnight Blue iron gall ink. I tried Lamy Blue-Black iron gall ink, but this ink did not flow well as well. I am trying to modify the surface tension of the ink to make it flow much better in this Mont Black FP, because if it flows well in this pen, then it will certainly flow well in almost every FP.

 

I am also looking for another dye ink to give it another initial colour. I am think of using a cyan or indigo like colour, but the problem is the find the right dye that does not form a precipitation with the gallic and tannic acids right in bottle. This is quite difficult to achieve, because most dye stuff will form a sludgy precipitation in the bottle after a few days of preparation.

 

I am looking for a very pure form of anilin blue W.S., but it is very difficult to get. I had a lower grade of this dye stuff, but it caused this dreaded precipitation in my bottle after week of so. Sofar Lamy black fountain pen ink seems to do the trick very well, without the formation of sediment in my bottle.

[ville900]

On some papers (without bleaching or optical brighteners) the ink can stay a bluish-grey for several days before it will become black ultimately. For the moment you will have enough ink for decades to come :clap1: . The writing will become blacker if you expose the written page in open air (oxidation) for several days. On some papers it turns black immediately on others it will stay bluish-grey for several days before turning into black.

 

Hi,

 

Very interesting comments indeed. I have noticed that as well and will check in the coming days. The colour conversion time to black is indeed very different on the 4 sheets of paper which I have sampled end of last week.

 

I use this home-brewed ink now for almost a year now without problems in my cheap fountain pens. The only problem seems to be in my MB, which seems to be very tricky with the particular ink used. It seems to deal only well with the MB Midnight Blue iron gall ink. I tried Lamy Blue-Black iron gall ink, but this ink did not flow well as well. I am trying to modify the surface tension of the ink to make it flow much better in this Mont Black FP, because if it flows well in this pen, then it will certainly flow well in almost every FP.

 

I see where you are going in terms of surface tension of the liquid and that's probably the clue. Having said that, I guess it is easier said than done but if you manage to do that you'll have a definitely exceptional ink indeed.

 

I am also looking for another dye ink to give it another initial colour. I am think of using a cyan or indigo like colour, but the problem is the find the right dye that does not form a precipitation with the gallic and tannic acids right in bottle. This is quite difficult to achieve, because most dye stuff will form a sludgy precipitation in the bottle after a few days of preparation.

 

I am looking for a very pure form of anilin blue W.S., but it is very difficult to get. I had a lower grade of this dye stuff, but it caused this dreaded precipitation in my bottle after week of so. Sofar Lamy black fountain pen ink seems to do the trick very well, without the formation of sediment in my bottle.

 

What about looking at which colour pigment the existing colour iron gall inks preparations have been using? (If I'm correct Lamy blue and Sailor blue ?? not sure here).

 

That'll be interesting too. A lot of time and efforts involved here obviously to try different formulae and to leave them enough time in every instance to first evolve before trying them in pens. If you manage to reach new coloured concoctions I'll be happy to help in testing. As with black, as you said, I have already enough for several years !!! :ltcapd:

[fiberdrunk]

I just wanted to update how it's been going with my own homemade iron gall inks, how they're aging and behaving in various pens.

 

I've been successful using both pomegranate iron gall ink and aleppo iron gall ink in a Pilot Parallel Pen. The pomegranate has been in the pen since March and there has been no sign of corrosion to the nib so far. I've had to flush it once or twice since then. But it's proven to have reliable flow. I've had the aleppo ink in a Pilot Parallel since last week and so far so good. This is the only fountain pen I've found that works with these particular ink recipes. They clogged Platinum Preppy Fountain Pens and the Platinum Carbon Pen. Here's an ink sample of the aleppo ink in the Pilot Parallel (please excuse my rushed, downhill writing!)

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5160/5839380893_30cf4469f5_b.jpg

 

 

I had posted earlier about using these inks in the Platinum Preppy Marker as well. The pomegranate ink has been working reliably in the marker since April. It puts down a medium gray line. The Pilot Parallel Pen lays down a darker gray line, so this leads me to believe the felt tip is "holding back" some components of the ink. I had less success with the aleppo recipe in this pen. At first it put down a glorious black line, but as the weeks went on, it became a lighter and lighter gray (even lighter than the pomegranate ink) until the felt tip stopped working all together. I've since replaced the felt tip and will update later what happens. I'm thinking the felt tip feed is acting as a filter and holding back some component in the ink, preventing it from behaving like a normal iron gall ink that becomes darker on the page over time.

 

At any rate, here are a couple of modern ways to use ancient inks. If you've been wanting to try making such inks but don't like the idea of having to use a dip pen, here are a couple of possibilities for using this ink in a more modern and convenient way.

Edited June 23, 2011 by fiberdrunk

[ville900]

fiberdrunk, thank you for the update.

I have been using the homemade iron gall ink made by pharmacist in a cheap Pilot 78G and that is a very good solution.

[fiberdrunk]

fiberdrunk, thank you for the update.

I have been using the homemade iron gall ink made by pharmacist in a cheap Pilot 78G and that is a very good solution.

 

Awesome! I think he makes his inks from chemicals, however. I make mine from plants (oak galls or pomegranate peels)... I think I end up with larger particle sizes, even when I carefully strain the ink through a few layers of cloth. I might look into the Pilot 78G, though, and take it for a test run. Thanks for the tip!

[ville900]

From what I know, I think you are absolutely right.

 

Nonetheless, the 78G is a nice pen to try anyhow. It costs about US$10 including postage shipped from Hong-Kong to anywhere in the world. So for this price, why not try it and even buy a couple of those? Several vendors on ebay display it for this price.

[fiberdrunk]

From what I know, I think you are absolutely right.

 

Nonetheless, the 78G is a nice pen to try anyhow. It costs about US$10 including postage shipped from Hong-Kong to anywhere in the world. So for this price, why not try it and even buy a couple of those? Several vendors on ebay display it for this price.

 

 

As a matter of fact, I happened to order one last night from an eBay seller, based on your recommendation, so when it comes, I'll let you know how it goes. I also tried the ink in a Hero 266 last night (a pen I only paid a dollar for!) I was surprised to get it writing, quite frankly, though it put down a very dry, thin line. I had trouble getting it going again the next morning, unlike the Pilot Parallel pens which start right up. So I don't think it's going to work in the Hero, but I'm hopeful about the Pilot 78G. Will let you know how it goes.

[ville900]

As a matter of fact, I happened to order one last night from an eBay seller, based on your recommendation, so when it comes, I'll let you know how it goes. I also tried the ink in a Hero 266 last night (a pen I only paid a dollar for!) I was surprised to get it writing, quite frankly, though it put down a very dry, thin line. I had trouble getting it going again the next morning, unlike the Pilot Parallel pens which start right up. So I don't think it's going to work in the Hero, but I'm hopeful about the Pilot 78G. Will let you know how it goes.

 

Yes that will be very interesting. Thanks

Is the Hero 266 worth a try you think? (apart from trying it with homemade inks I mean)

[fiberdrunk]

 

Yes that will be very interesting. Thanks

Is the Hero 266 worth a try you think? (apart from trying it with homemade inks I mean)

 

I've only tried one other ink in the Hero 266 so far and that was Higgins Sepia. Unfortunately, I think the ink corroded something in the pen and it started too ooze around the nib. I don't know if it was the fault of the ink or the pen. Higgins Sepia is supposed to be fountain pen-friendly, though I have read on FPN that some have complained that it wasn't. It wrote wonderfully for awhile, though, before that happened. I like how the nib feels on the page. I bought a package of 10 of them for $10, including shipping from eBay last year. If you like an extra-fine nib then you may like this pen. One thing: it has a squeeze-type converter, so if you don't like those, you might want to pass on this pen. Maybe it's time I test a normal ink in it, and do a review.

[fiberdrunk]

 

Nonetheless, the 78G is a nice pen to try anyhow. It costs about US$10 including postage shipped from Hong-Kong to anywhere in the world. So for this price, why not try it and even buy a couple of those? Several vendors on ebay display it for this price.

 

 

The Pilot 78G medium arrived and I've been using it with both my aleppo iron gall ink recipe and the pomegranate iron gall ink recipe. Both are working great! I've been using them for 3 days without clogging issues.

 

I love Pilot pens (Pilot Parallel and now 78G)! Thanks for the heads up on this pen!

[ville900]

Nonetheless, the 78G is a nice pen to try anyhow. It costs about US$10 including postage shipped from Hong-Kong to anywhere in the world. So for this price, why not try it and even buy a couple of those? Several vendors on ebay display it for this price.

 

 

The Pilot 78G medium arrived and I've been using it with both my aleppo iron gall ink recipe and the pomegranate iron gall ink recipe. Both are working great! I've been using them for 3 days without clogging issues.

 

I love Pilot pens (Pilot Parallel and now 78G)! Thanks for the heads up on this pen!

 

You are welcome.

78G's are simple yet brilliant (basic) pens

[pharmacist]

Hi Fiberdrunk:

 

nice blog about producing vintage iron gall inks made from natural ingredients. I think you should try a coffee paper filter to get rid of those tiny particles and add some strong vinegar to the ink to prevent the formation of sediment in your ink, which will acidfy the ink and thus keep the iron in its (II) value. Instead of gum arabic I suggest to add (white) sugar to the ink: gum arabic tends to precipitate the ink I have discovered in my experiments and also clove essential oil instead of powdered cloves, further reducing the amount of tiny particles in your ink.

[fiberdrunk]

Hi Fiberdrunk:

 

nice blog about producing vintage iron gall inks made from natural ingredients. I think you should try a coffee paper filter to get rid of those tiny particles and add some strong vinegar to the ink to prevent the formation of sediment in your ink, which will acidfy the ink and thus keep the iron in its (II) value. Instead of gum arabic I suggest to add (white) sugar to the ink: gum arabic tends to precipitate the ink I have discovered in my experiments and also clove essential oil instead of powdered cloves, further reducing the amount of tiny particles in your ink.

 

Thanks Pharmacist! I haven't had any problems with sediment dropping in my iron gall inks yet. Knocking on wood here! I think I got better at straining the ink as I went along (also, I used whole cloves, not powdered). I think the main clogging culprit was the crushed gall particles... 3 layers of cloth had the best results in removing them.

 

As of today, I've discovered I can use my iron gall inks in a Parker Vector fountain pen as well... that's probably not surprising, since the Vector works exceptionally well with commercial iron gall inks, without a hitch. I just have to wait and see how they hold up to the test of time, to see if the nibs corrode or not.

Edited July 14, 2011 by fiberdrunk

[stevenrs11]

Hey everyone, (particularly fiberdrunk and pharmacist)

 

I have been quietly following both of your experimentations for a while, and trying to make my own ink as well. I thought it was interesting that each of you took a completely different approach, pharmacist used pure laboratory chemicals and fiberdrunk used natural sources.

 

I did sort of both, using some natural products and some pure chemicals, and honestly, I am very pleased with my inks.

 

For my tannins, I found a bunch of oak galls in the woods in Tennessee, ground them up, let them sit and ferment, and then filtered and boiled (idea courtesy of fiberdrunk). The problem was, though, this solution never had enough tannic acid/gallic acid to make a deep black line, so I added some tannic acid I had from the pharmacy (ordered it, cheap too) to the gallic/tannin fermented liquid till I was satisfied.

 

For filtering, I found that adding a bit of HCl to it, just enough to drop the ph under 1.5, and boiling it flocculated everything really well. Pulling it through some pretty coarse filter paper (#5?) make it perfectly clean of particulates. I then added some more 24%HCl, around 1ml for every 100ml (from your recipe, pharmacist).

 

 

I just bought the iron sulfate, but it was nasty fertilizer/under technical grade (bleep) so I had to recrystallize that to clean it up. I pre-dissolved this in water with some HCl to stop it from oxidizing, and added it dropwise, testing the color of my tannin/iron mix until all shades of green or brown where gone, and it was pure, total black (or grey when thinned out). This way, I never added too much FeSO4 even though I didn't know the exact concentration of tannins.

 

Here is where I get lost. I am having trouble adjusting the flow of the ink. I add a little glycerin and alcohol, and test it. Then I add tiny drops of a detergent till it flows good out of whatever I am making the ink for. (quill, dip, pilot parallel) Problem is, I really have no idea how these thing affect the flow of the ink, what wet or dry is, or what flows good out of what. This is my first dealing with anything ink/pen related past a bic, and I have never used any commercial inks to use as a comparison.

 

Maybe someone could help this aspiring chemist with his fluid dynamics problem and explain how I can change the viscosity and surface tension of my ink to flow right. I would really appreciate it.

[fiberdrunk]

Hey everyone, (particularly fiberdrunk and pharmacist)

 

 

For my tannins, I found a bunch of oak galls in the woods in Tennessee, ground them up, let them sit and ferment, and then filtered and boiled (idea courtesy of fiberdrunk). The problem was, though, this solution never had enough tannic acid/gallic acid to make a deep black line, so I added some tannic acid I had from the pharmacy (ordered it, cheap too) to the gallic/tannin fermented liquid till I was satisfied.

 

Here is where I get lost. I am having trouble adjusting the flow of the ink. I add a little glycerin and alcohol, and test it. Then I add tiny drops of a detergent till it flows good out of whatever I am making the ink for. (quill, dip, pilot parallel) Problem is, I really have no idea how these thing affect the flow of the ink, what wet or dry is, or what flows good out of what. This is my first dealing with anything ink/pen related past a bic, and I have never used any commercial inks to use as a comparison.

 

Maybe someone could help this aspiring chemist with his fluid dynamics problem and explain how I can change the viscosity and surface tension of my ink to flow right. I would really appreciate it.

 

Congratulations on your ink experiments! It's really quite gratifying to make your own, and it's so much cheaper besides.

 

Yes, American oak galls aren't as high in tannic acid as the aleppo galls. Sounds like you figured out a way to balance it out, though-- great job! When I made the Jane Austen recipe, I increased the amount of galls I used. It would be nice if there were a way to measure the amount of tannic/gallic acid, to get the ratio just right. From my research, blue aleppo galls from Turkey contain 50-70% gallotannic acid. Other kinds of oak galls, such as oak apples, contain somewhere around 20% gallotannic acid. So I figured the ratios out from those figures and adjusted accordingly.

 

I just risk using gum arabic to control flow. I know they say it can gum up a fountain pen, but so far I've had good results with my aleppo and pomegranate inks in the Pilot Parallel, Pilot 78G and Parker Vector. I think I've flushed my Pilot Parallels only twice since about March and I've kept the ink in there constantly since then. Recently I've also tried it in the Jinhao Oliver U76 360 Degree Nib Extra Fine fountain pen... its nib is much like the Pilot Parallel (with two metal plates on top of each other, and the ink flows between them). It worked gloriously, putting down a very dark black line even though it is an extra-fine nib, that reminded me a little of the Sakura Micron pens. It worked up until I set it down overnight. Then it wouldn't flow and I had to flush it very well. It works when I first flush/fill but never starts back up again on its own after setting it down. So disappointing because when it does work, it works awesome! One thing about gum arabic... I find I have to slowly rub the powder between my fingers while I'm stirring it in, otherwise you get big gluey blobs in your ink. I wear latex gloves while I do this as it's quite drying to the skin. It's a very slow process and the most tedious part of ink-making for me, often taking longer than a half hour to slowly and gradually get it all mixed in. But I'm guessing pharmacist can offer much better advice about the kinds of materials you are using. Good luck!

[pharmacist]

Hi Steven,

 

Rheology (the science of behaviour of liquids and alike) is very difficult to understand, even to me as a scientist. It depends on so many things. The problem with ink is the variety of ingredients. All of them will influence the surface tension, viscosity.

 

A lot of dyes, used in making ink, tends to lower surface tension, as do some preservatives.

 

I too use fertiliser quality ferrrous sulphate, but it does not matter: I dissolve it and ad the hydrochloric acid, let it stand till the non dissolvable particles settle to the bottom and use the supernatant liquid to make the ink. I rinse it twice to get as much ferrous sulphate from the solution and I collect the completely clear dissolved ferrous sulphate. This way I get a completely clear ferrous sulphate solution, lightly greenish.

 

Now about the tannin: why do you use gall extracts ? It is very difficult to determine the exact concentration of tannin in natural gall nuts. Therefore you use pure tannin, which is standardised and is extracted from gall nuts and purified.

 

glycerin, alcohol, sugar, even dish washer soap can be used to modify the ink flow.

 

About the gum arabic: if it forms globs, just let it stand for a few days: it will dissolve automatically and becomes completely clear.