Permanent ink for Visconti Homo Sapiens

[khalameet]

Hi!

 

I have a Visconti HS Bronze and I would like to use permanent ink in it. I am wondering if an iron gall ink would be fine in the pen because the inside of the barrel is supposedly made of stainless steel and continuous ink contact COULD be bad. The rod is made of titanium AFAIK. And the bronze trim is also not very resilient if ink gets on it.

I am not sure how well the cap seals, so I am also not sure if a pigmented ink would be okay to use. I have some R&K and De Atramentis pigment inks and they are very finicky in my other pens and very prone to hard starts and dry out. I heard good things about the Sailor inks in this regard...

 

If anyone can chime in I would be much obliged

[arcfide]

How permanent do you need things to be? Among your options, I'd say that iron gall would probably be my choice. Even so, consistent contact with metal trim with many inks (not just permanent ones) will likely cause some wear/corrosion over time, but only after prolonged contact. I wouldn't be particularly worried about the stainless rod inside, personally. I'd be more worried about inks that are hard to flush out with just water or solutions. Iron gall can be cleaned up with appropriate solutions without needing to scrub, whereas some cellulose reactive or pigmented inks can be more difficult to clean without scrubbing or friction or high water pressure. 

 

So, if you must use a permanent ink and you must use your Visconti, then an Iron Gall light formula would be my choice, like Platinum, KWZ, or R&K. I personally would shy away from the Registrar's inks unless I were writing through a fill of the pen very quickly, simply because those inks are less stable over time and I have seen them "go bad" through age. 

 

Other than that, I would just be consistent in my use, not let the ink dry out, and keep the trim clean of ink. That should generally be pretty good, but all pens will wear over time with use, even without the use of permanent ink. I wouldn't expect a well maintained pen with iron gall to have too many troubles compared to other permanent options. 

 

I will say, though, that I also have more confidence in the Japanese pigmented inks I have tried, namely, Platinum's Pigmented ink line, and Sailor's Seiboku and Souboku, or either company's carbon ink. My impression is that these inks are a little less finicky than the R&K and DeA lines, though I don't have personal experience with either. I've also had good luck with Montblanc's Permanent Pigmented inks. 

 

But it all depends on your level of tolerance for the quirks involved in such inks. 

[khalameet]

Thank you for your answer.

 

I agree that, at least in other pens, I am not very nervous about using IG ink. I have used many, many IG inks before, including DRI, KWZ IG Blue Black and the "Nachtblau" from Büroservice Bergmann (or just Thomas). I never had a problem, IF there was dried up residue it cleaned just fine with ascorbic acid. However, I never had those inks in a pen which was not easy to disassemble. I never had to disassemble the pens though, but not being able to see what is going on inside makes me slightly nervous. I agree that the trims are not that problematic, because they are normally not covered in ink. I already sent an email to Visconti to ask if the HS is entirely made of titanium in the inside, or if the barred is stainless steel. At least I suspect that there is some kind of metal layer between the ink chamber and the lava material.

 

I thought that maybe Kiwaguro or Souboku would be nice choices but I guess if I forget my pens and they dry out I can throw them away

 

The thing is, I need the pen and ink for a very special writing project for my wife, and I received the pen from her. So I want to use this exact pen but also make sure that my writing will stay legible (hopefully until the end of our lives). I could also use an ordinary ink, which would probably be fine, but I would still be nervous.

If IG inks do dry, they can be cleaned just fine in my experience. Which can not be said about pigmented inks, I think. But if IG dries and there are stainless steel parts, well...that is at least a slight risk.

[arcfide]

7 minutes ago, khalameet said:

I thought that maybe Kiwaguro or Souboku would be nice choices but I guess if I forget my pens and they dry out I can throw them away

 

 

In the worst case, you might have more work cleaning them out, and maybe you would need to disassemble them, but you certainly wouldn't need to throw them away. A pain, yes, but certainly not fatal. I haven't actually tested letting such inks totally dry out in a pen, so I do not know how hard they are to clean out without disassembly. 

[khalameet]

That is my fear, that I will not get them cleaned anymore

 

I found this blog post here:

https://bignibs.wordpress.com/2019/10/05/partial-disassembly-of-the-visconti-homo-sapiens-bronze-age/

 

So it seems that the HS has no metal in the barrel, but I wonder what the section is made of.

 

I also don't have experience with dried pigment ink, and like you also said, the Japanese inks, especially Sailor, don't seem to be very prolematic in this regard. But then again, I am not really sure how airthight the cap of the HS is. For some reason I think that it does not seal as well as a screw on cap, but that doesn't make sense actually, because the seal is not created by the capping mechanism but by the inner cap...

[yazeh]

Why don't you ask Thom of Büroservice Bergmann, on the German pen forum? Or you can ask him directly on the Büroservice IG blue, thread on FPGeeks.  He's very knowledgable and honest. And his inks are fabulous. 

[gmax]

The HS section is made of lava/composite, the same as the barrel. Keep in mind that the piston is operated by a metal rod which runs right through the centre of the ink reservoir. You will see the metal rod each time you retract it, so any early signs of surface damage should be easy to detect.

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, khalameet said:

But then again, I am not really sure how airthight the cap of the HS is. For some reason I think that it does not seal as well as a screw on cap, but that doesn't make sense actually, because the seal is not created by the capping mechanism but by the inner cap...

It seals better than average, but not perfectly (though I have the London Fog and I don't know if it's different in this regard from the lava version).  One thing you can do with the HS is to close off the reservoir from the nib & feed.  The reservoir, as far as I've been able to determine seals perfectly.  Then, if you know you won't be using it for a few+ days, you can write the section dry and / or rinse the nib and feed under running water until no more ink comes out.  While I haven't done it with permanent inks and can't say for certain how well that would work, it does work for non-permanent inks, FWIW.

 

I don't know whether the solids from pigment ink or from iron gall (if left long enough for solids to form) is worse (e.g. getting caught in the barrel), but you can remove the nib unit (very difficult the first time, unless you have the impossible-to-get-tool, perhaps - I don't have said tool) and thereby get better access to the main body for cleaning.

[khalameet]

16 hours ago, gmax said:

The HS section is made of lava/composite, the same as the barrel. Keep in mind that the piston is operated by a metal rod which runs right through the centre of the ink reservoir. You will see the metal rod each time you retract it, so any early signs of surface damage should be easy to detect.

AFAIK the piston rod is made of titanium, so that should be fine.

Click on the link I provided a few posts above, you can see that inside the section is a metal part which holds the nib housing, and I wonder what that material is :)

 

15 hours ago, LizEF said:

It seals better than average, but not perfectly (though I have the London Fog and I don't know if it's different in this regard from the lava version).  One thing you can do with the HS is to close off the reservoir from the nib & feed.  The reservoir, as far as I've been able to determine seals perfectly.  Then, if you know you won't be using it for a few+ days, you can write the section dry and / or rinse the nib and feed under running water until no more ink comes out.  While I haven't done it with permanent inks and can't say for certain how well that would work, it does work for non-permanent inks, FWIW.

 

I don't know whether the solids from pigment ink or from iron gall (if left long enough for solids to form) is worse (e.g. getting caught in the barrel), but you can remove the nib unit (very difficult the first time, unless you have the impossible-to-get-tool, perhaps - I don't have said tool) and thereby get better access to the main body for cleaning.

I tried to google a bit about the cap seal but found not much. A few people on Reddit who wrote that the pen seals well. Nothing more detailed, but at least with the dye inks I used before (Iroshizuku, mainly) the pen wrote well after sitting for a week.

The standard lava does not have the double reservoir, unfortunately

 

But good point about unscrewing the nib housing...that could be handy.

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, khalameet said:

The standard lava does not have the double reservoir, unfortunately

Ohhh, I did not know that.  Glad I didn't get one of those.

[khalameet]

Yes, as far as I know only the limited editions have the double reservoir system. They even come with a greater ink capacity (1,5 ml vs 3 ml, I believe). The ink capacity is okay for me though, because I want to use permanent inks anyway and 1,5 ml seems to be a reasonable capacity for this, if I don't write so much at all times.

 

I found a newish post about the HS over at Goulet Pens, but they state there that all parts of the filling mechanism are made of titanium to resist corrosion. Not sure if that includes the metal part in the section. IF corrosion is the reason for using titanium though, then it would only be consistent if every part on the inside is titanium. But still, not sure. If everything is made of titanium then IG inks are pretty nice for this pen I would say.

 

https://www.gouletpens.com/blogs/fountain-pen-blog/visconti-homo-sapiens-overview 

 

Edit: I reached out for both Visconti and KWZ ink. I asked Visconti if everything is made of titanium or if there are stainless steel parts, and I asked Konrad, if he or one of his Customers has any experience with using IG inks in a Homo Sapiens (had nice mail contact to him about the exact same question regarding a Pilot C823). If I get an answer from any of those I will report back here.

In the meantime, I think if there are stainless steel parts in the pen, it would probably be easiest to use one of Sailor's pigmented offerings. They seem to be the most hassle-free pigmented inks available.

[LizEF]

Thanks, @khalameet!  Looking forward to whatever you learn.

[khalameet]

You are most welcome! I am happy to share any information I get 😊

[arcfide]

I honestly think that IG fountain pen inks are likely no more inherently corrosive than many pigmented inks or dye-based inks, so I wouldn't worry about things on that level. 

[The Elevator]

13 hours ago, khalameet said:

The standard lava does not have the double reservoir, unfortunately

If that’s the case, you’re probably better served with the standard Bronze Age than a LE; more reservoirs mean more opportunities for problems if using temperamental inks.

[khalameet]

I got answer from Visconti: the rod is made of titanium, but all other metal parts including the inside of the section are made of stainless steel.

[LizEF]

33 minutes ago, khalameet said:

I got answer from Visconti: the rod is made of titanium, but all other metal parts including the inside of the section are made of stainless steel.

Interesting.  I guess they feel the connection between the ink chamber and the nib unit is sufficient to reduce ink exposure to said stainless steel?  Or that the stainless steel is sufficiently corrosion resistant that they don't need to worry about it?

 

Thanks for letting us know.

[arcfide]

8 hours ago, LizEF said:

Or that the stainless steel is sufficiently corrosion resistant that they don't need to worry about it?

 

I suspect this. Modern stainless steel is quite good, and I haven't heard of any consistent stainless steel parts (such as nibs) from reputable makers used in pens suffering corrosion from any of the typical inks, including iron galls. Waterman inks are quite acidic, after all, as a rule, as are many of Pelikan's inks. Platinum's Blue Black ink is iron gall, acidic, and shipped by default with all of their pens, including the cheapest ones with stainless steel nibs, and I haven't seen any such worries with those pens, despite their low cost. 

[khalameet]

I mean, there are a lot of stainless steel pens and even with IG inks these are fine.

I was curious if everything inside the HS is titanium or not; some pages, like Amazon, describe the pen like that.

But knowing that there are stainless steel parts where ink can accumulate without really being able to see what is going on makes me nervous about using IG, even if I had never a problem with these inks in the past.

 

I also wonder what IG does to a ruthenium plated nib as I am planning to aquire a HS Dark Age, too.

 

In the meantime, I got a response from Konrad of KZWI, that a friend of his used various IG inks made by him in a HS for over three years without an apparent issue. Well, I guess I am overthinking this.

[arcfide]

3 minutes ago, khalameet said:

I also wonder what IG does to a ruthenium plated nib as I am planning to aquire a HS Dark Age, too.

 

I don't know if it's strictly a problem with gold plated nibs, since they are usually more stable, but steel plated nibs *can* and do suffer plating corrosion with many different ink types. IG inks are apparently among these inks, and there are some plated surfaces that can suffer from corrosion because of this. But this sort of corrosion has also been noted with some of Sailor's pigmented inks and their Ruthenium plated nibs, so avoiding IG inks isn't really the ticket to avoiding this plating coming off. Unfortunately, plated nibs can sometimes be more trouble in this respect, though all haven't heard of such issues with normal two-tone plated gold nibs.