Snorkel Filler Won't Take Ink - Suggestions?

[Checklist]

I'm trying to restore an old Saratoga I won in an online auction.  I replaced the sac, the gasket, the o-ring, and the snorkel (the end was smashed), but the pen will not pull more than a few drops of water when testing it.  Working the Touchdown tube will push air or water out just fine, but the pen just doesn't seem to get much suction.  Does anyone have any suggestion where to look?  I've checked the threads several times and gotten no improvement.

[es9]

43 minutes ago, Checklist said:

Working the Touchdown tube will push air or water out just fine, but the pen just doesn't seem to get much suction.

 

Sorry - the pen pushes water, but not ink?  

 

Did you by any chance use a thin-walled sac?  I've read they do not have enough structure to pull much ink in.  Have you checked to make sure no liquid is getting inside the barrel?  Did you replace all three rubber gaskets/seals (point seal between the nib and section, o-ring in the barrel, and the blind cap seal where the touchdown tube screws into the blind cap)?  Did you put a drop of shellac where the snorkel tube enters the hard rubber plug?  Did you check to make sure there are no leaks in the sac and that it is secured well to the hard rubber plug?  Did you apply rosin-based thread sealant to the threads where the section screws into the barrel?

[Checklist]

12 minutes ago, es9 said:

Sorry - the pen pushes water, but not ink? 

I have not put ink into it yet; I have been testing it with water first.  Sorry if that is confusing.

12 minutes ago, es9 said:

 

Did you by any chance use a thin-walled sac?  I've read they do not have enough structure to pull much ink in.  Have you checked to make sure no liquid is getting inside the barrel?  Did you replace all three rubber gaskets/seals (point seal between the nib and section, o-ring in the barrel, and the blind cap seal where the touchdown tube screws into the blind cap)?  Did you put a drop of shellac where the snorkel tube enters the hard rubber plug?  Did you check to make sure there are no leaks in the sac and that it is secured well to the hard rubber plug?  Did you apply rosin-based thread sealant to the threads where the section screws into the barrel?

I used the sac in Anderson Pens' Snorkel kit.  Not sure if that counts as a thin-walled sac or not, but I'm only getting a few drops.  No liquid is inside the barrel, leading me to conclude that the sac and its seal is not the problem.  I did not replace the seal in the blind cap, but the Touchdown check seemed to show the system working well after replacing the o-ring.  I have not applied any thread sealant, as there did not seem to be any applied when I disassembled the pen.

[Ron Z]

Did you replace the 0-ring with a fresh one?  Did you replace the seal under the blind cap, and is the screw snug?  Have you looked closely at the TD tube end of the barrel to see if there is a crack?  Is the small vent hole at the end of the barrel clear?  Did you replace the point holder gasket? 

 

Are you sure that the snorkel tube is clear?  You should be able to blow air through it.  I usually take a turkey baster needle and power flush the snorkel tube even if I think it is clear just to make sure. The times I don't, I get skunked.

 

Once you've checked all those things, with the pen assembled, immerse the entire front end in water and push the TD tube down.  If you get bubbles anywhere except the end of the snorkel tube, you have an air leak that needs to be fixed. 

[pen lady]

I think it was Ron who told me to keep the off-cuts from regular latex sacs (used for lever-fillers) and cut them down to use as  blind-cap gaskets.  I do, and though I loathe restoring Snorks, having a ready supply of gasket material is a good thing.

[Ron Z]

Rubber from a bicycle inner tube works well too.  Much more durable than a sac.  Punch sets are available at Harbor Freight and on line for about $10.  Or you can make a punch with a piece of brass tubing.  Not as strong as others, but it'll do in a pinch.  Or sharpened brake line.  Chuck it in a drill and file to a sharp edge.

[Checklist]

Thanks, everyone.  I have filled the pen the best I can with ink and have been using it all day.  It's a joy to write with and hasn't run out so far.  Could have been overreacting, but we'll see.

 

8 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Did you replace the 0-ring with a fresh one?  Did you replace the seal under the blind cap, and is the screw snug?  Have you looked closely at the TD tube end of the barrel to see if there is a crack?  Is the small vent hole at the end of the barrel clear?  Did you replace the point holder gasket? 

 

Are you sure that the snorkel tube is clear?  You should be able to blow air through it.

I did replace the o-ring and point gasket while restoring the pen, but not the blind cap seal.  The screw is snug, and the seal seems to still work; the Touchdown tube will hold pressure.  I also cleaned out the vent hole, but, as good of shape as this pen is in, there was nothing blocking it.  The snorkel does blow air or whatever happens to be in the sac.

 

8 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Once you've checked all those things, with the pen assembled, immerse the entire front end in water and push the TD tube down.  If you get bubbles anywhere except the end of the snorkel tube, you have an air leak that needs to be fixed. 

If the ink runs out soon because little got pulled in, that will be my next check.

[es9]

For those interested, I have had good luck using cheap punches for blind cap seals — 5.5mm for the OD and 2.5mm for the ID. I’m sure that’s not quite right, but it seems to be working well enough so far. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Can you measure what you mean by "a few drops"? Snorkels use #16 size sacs which are not the biggest, and from what I remember when I restored mine, I had to cut it down a bit to fit in the plug. I think you may have restored it just fine, Snorkels are just not high capacity pens.

In my opinion (not that anyone asked), I think the snorkel system was cool but completely unnecessary and a functional downgrade from the touchdown pens which were easier to maintain and had fewer points of failure. Fun pens to show to people who are not into vintage, though.

[Ron Z]

Snorkels use #14 1/2  or #14 sacs.     TM TD 15 1/2,  "Fat" TD and PFM 17 1/2.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Ah, right. Sorry, I mixed it up with the TM touchdowns, for some reason I thought those were size 16 sacs. Either way my point stands, small sac, not much ink.

[es9]

~.75 ml, I think. Not exactly a Conid, but definitely more than a few drops. 

[Checklist]

Judging by the gradations on my vial, it was getting up to 0.2 mL.  Pen's still writing a day later, though.

[Checklist]

On 2/2/2023 at 7:18 AM, Ron Z said:

Once you've checked all those things, with the pen assembled, immerse the entire front end in water and push the TD tube down.  If you get bubbles anywhere except the end of the snorkel tube, you have an air leak that needs to be fixed. 

Tried this while cleaning out the pen, and got a bubble where the grip meets the barrel.  When I opened the pen up, a few drops of water (but no ink) were on the spring and sac protector.  Looks to me like I need some thread sealant before I fill this guy up again.

 

Thanks to everyone for the pointers and the help!

[Checklist]

Ok, I've about had it with this pen.  I replaced the grip, put plenty of thread sealant on it, passed the bubble check, and it still does not take more than ~0.1 mL of ink.  I can feel the Touchdown tube pulling and pushing on my thumb if I pull the barrel off, and there is nothing that looks like a crack.  What in the world is next?!