Waterproof+Permanent Blue-Black for students?

[IanP2303]

Hello! 
 

I have come to all of you for assistance, dear pen friends! I have been on the search for the perfect Blue-Black, one that behaves well on poor paper, one that doesn’t fade(like Salix), one that has a nice, saturated colour, and one that doesn’t make your nib size larger. (like Noodler’s 54th Massachusetts from what I have read) Thank you for all your help in advance!

 

Cheers, 

Ian 

[A Smug Dill]

What has the “for students” part of your question got to do with anything with those performance characteristics? I'm not aware of any ink that students are prohibited from purchasing or using; and I don't see a logical reason why a student may consume significantly more, or conversely significantly less, ink by volume per unit time than other fountain pen users who are not officially students.

 

Or how students' written material needs to be (more) water-resistant and fade-resistant than other users. After all, most of what students write only need last one or two years at most in terms of remaining legible. Yes, there could be value in some student notes or essays being readable in ten or twenty years' time; but there there is plenty of time to redo such artefacts if the owner thinks the importance and relevance of the content go far beyond the school year and/or graduation.

 

Anyway...

 

Sailor Seiboku blue-black ink is waterproof and fade-resistant, and more colour-saturated (as opposed to chemically saturated) than its sibling Souboku blue-black ink.

 

Noodler's Ink Churchill True Blue Anti-Fascist ink is probably another one; and it's also known as X-Feather Blue, so it should not be apt to make one's ink lines spread on the page. However, it tends to clog my pens, in a way that Seiboku and Souboku (notwithstanding their being pigment inks) do not; and it's blue, not quite blue-black.

 

[LizEF]

Personally, I'd go with Sailor Souboku, or Seiboku, but they're not exactly priced for students.  Rohrer & Klingner SketchINKs or Document inks, De Atramentis Document inks, Platinum Pigmented inks, might all be alternatives - basically, any document or pigmented ink.

[IanP2303]

3 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

What has the “for students” part of your question got to do with anything with those performance characteristics? I'm not aware of any ink that students are prohibited from purchasing or using; and I don't see a logical reason why a student may consume significantly more, or conversely significantly less, ink by volume per unit time than other fountain pen users who are not a student.

 

Or that students' written material needs to be (more) water-resistant and fade-resistant than other users. After all, most of what students write only need last one or two years at most in terms of remaining legible. Yes, there could be value in some student notes or essays being readable in ten or twenty years' time; but there there is plenty of time to redo such artefacts if the owner thinks the importance and relevance of the content go far beyond the school year and/or graduation.

 

Anyway...

 

Sailor Seiboku blue-black ink is waterproof and fade-resistant, and more colour-saturated (as opposed to chemically saturated) than its sibling Souboku blue-black ink.

 

Noodler's Ink Churchill True Blue Anti-Fascist ink is probably another one; and it's also known as X-Feather Blue, so it should not be apt to make one's ink lines spread on the page. However, it tends to clog my pens, in a way that Seiboku and Souboku (notwithstanding their being pigment inks) do not; and it's blue, not quite blue-black.

 

Thank you for your input as always. 

[IanP2303]

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

Personally, I'd go with Sailor Souboku, or Seiboku, but they're not exactly priced for students.  Rohrer & Klingner SketchINKs or Document inks, De Atramentis Document inks, Platinum Pigmented inks, might all be alternatives - basically, any document or pigmented ink.

Hello Liz! 
 

Thank you for your input! I believe Salix fades over time. I use my inks not only for schoolwork, but for leisure writing too! Lightfastness and permanence is important! I’ve read that Souboku feathers on cheap paper, but your review says otherwise. Are there any other options? If not, I might get a sample of Souboku! 
 

Thank you for your advice! 
 

Cheers,

Ian

[arcfide]

You might consider Pilot Blue Black. It's not as lightfast or waterproof as pigmented inks, but it does have some stuff in it to make it less water soluble after it dries on the paper. It's also a relatively "bright" color compared to many other very muted grey-leaning blue blacks that can come off faded looking. If you want a more traditional blue black, Diamine Registrar's is going to come out quite dark blue black for a decently wet pen, and will behave well on cheap paper. 

 

Outside of pigmented inks, most dye-based inks are going to be either less saturated and well-behaved, or more saturated and less friendly to cheap paper. However, cheap paper can make some less saturated inks look more saturated. Cheap paper can also sometimes improve water resistance for some inks. Cheap paper can *also* reduce the archival properties of your writing, because cheap paper degrades faster over time, as a general rule. 

[txomsy]

+1 for Pilot Blue Black, it is permanent and you can get it in 350ml bottles for a very good price, it should last you all your career and then some.

 

I'd feel tempted to suggest Rohrer und Klingner Salix, which is fairly affordable in EU, but it may be more expensive in Hong-Kong. Diamine or De Atramentis may suffer the same problem.

 

The same applies to Noodler's inks, they may be a good option in the US but not HK.

 

If you wanted just blue, Koh-i-Noor Document Blue is also a cheap option, but it comes out light at the beginning and may not be what you are looking for.

 

[OCArt]

Hero 232 blue-black is a great ink at a bargain price. As an iron gall ink it's permanent, waterproof and should work well on a variety of papers.

[Lithium466]

Most (modern?) IG inks will eventually fade when exposed to light. Otherwise Platinum blue black is very well behaved and has enough water resistance, but will fade.

I was going to suggest Pilot Blue-black too, but that may not be the most well behaved on cheap papers. I don't know about regular Sailor blue or blue/black UV resistance.
Otherwise back to the pigmented options already cited above.

[IanP2303]

4 hours ago, arcfide said:

You might consider Pilot Blue Black. It's not as lightfast or waterproof as pigmented inks, but it does have some stuff in it to make it less water soluble after it dries on the paper. It's also a relatively "bright" color compared to many other very muted grey-leaning blue blacks that can come off faded looking. If you want a more traditional blue black, Diamine Registrar's is going to come out quite dark blue black for a decently wet pen, and will behave well on cheap paper. 

 

Outside of pigmented inks, most dye-based inks are going to be either less saturated and well-behaved, or more saturated and less friendly to cheap paper. However, cheap paper can make some less saturated inks look more saturated. Cheap paper can also sometimes improve water resistance for some inks. Cheap paper can *also* reduce the archival properties of your writing, because cheap paper degrades faster over time, as a general rule. 

Cheers! This is incredibly insightful! I’ve heard that Registrar’s turns Black over time, I wouldn’t want another Black in my collection, is the statement true? However, I love the colour after it has dried for a few minutes, the perfect colour! I won’t be in contact with bleach, so it’ll be fine.
 

Pilot Blue-Black’s colour seems to vary from different websites? Sometimes, it looks saturated, but at other times, it looks just like an ordinary dark blue, not a Blue-Black. How is it like actually? 
 

I’ve always knew paper is important to performance, but never knew they could weigh so much! Thank you!

 

Cheers,

Ian

[IanP2303]

4 hours ago, txomsy said:

+1 for Pilot Blue Black, it is permanent and you can get it in 350ml bottles for a very good price, it should last you all your career and then some.

 

I'd feel tempted to suggest Rohrer und Klingner Salix, which is fairly affordable in EU, but it may be more expensive in Hong-Kong. Diamine or De Atramentis may suffer the same problem.

 

The same applies to Noodler's inks, they may be a good option in the US but not HK.

 

If you wanted just blue, Koh-i-Noor Document Blue is also a cheap option, but it comes out light at the beginning and may not be what you are looking for.

 

All of the inks are available here in Hong Kong and some are actually cheaper than purchasing in the US, so that is not a problem! Cheers, for taking my location into consideration! 
 

How permanent is Pilot Blue-Black? Is it lightfast? I use my inks for leisure writing as well, so I hope it performs well on all types of paper! How well does it perform on poor paper? Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Ian

[IanP2303]

3 hours ago, OCArt said:

Hero 232 blue-black is a great ink at a bargain price. As an iron gall ink it's permanent, waterproof and should work well on a variety of papers.

It certainly is a bargain! However, the colour leans onto the greyer spectrum of Blue-Blacks. Thank you for introducing this wonderful ink to me nonetheless! 
 

Cheers,

Ian

[LizEF]

9 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I believe Salix fades over time.

And I didn't recommend it - it's not a document or pigmented ink, but an iron gall ink - many of these are known to fade when exposed to light for long enough.

 

9 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I’ve read that Souboku feathers on cheap paper, but your review says otherwise.

Well, there's lousy paper, and awful paper, and kinda terrible paper, and....  You get the idea.  This paper is not consistent or controlled in any way, so my absorbent paper may or may not be as bad as other people's absorbent paper, and my pen is a Japanese EF, and theirs may not have been.  And my pen may be drier than their pen...  You get the idea - there are lots of variables.  At the end of the day, sampling in your own pen on your own paper, with your own writing pressure is the only way to be sure.

 

Your lightfastness requirement leaves out any other inks I might recommend beyond the general suggestion of "pigment" and "Document" (where "Document" is a standard used by European makers such as KWZ, R&K, and De Atramentis (perhaps others)).

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

Pilot Blue-Black’s colour seems to vary from different websites? Sometimes, it looks saturated, but at other times, it looks just like an ordinary dark blue, not a Blue-Black. How is it like actually? 

IMO, it's a muted blue.  How dark it is depends on the wetness of the pen.  Apparently you can allow evaporation until it's at 200% concentration and it's still usable in a fountain pen.  But it's not lightfast, based on fade tests found here on FPN.  I would have recommended Pilot Blue-Black, as it's got decent water-resistance and the 350mL bottle is absurdly student-priced (dirt cheap), but not so hot light-resistance.

 

5 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I’ve always knew paper is important to performance, but never knew they could weigh so much!

I would consider the paper more important - it will probably crumble before most dye-based inks in a closed book will fade.  Where you're at, mold attacks on the paper and humidity are probably greater threats than light, unless you plan to leave pages spread out in the sun.

 

Water is only a threat in the form of accidents or flooding - you'll have to figure out how likely those are.

 

9 hours ago, txomsy said:

Koh-i-Noor Document

Ah, yes, these may be an option - perhaps you could mix your own blue-black?   (Don't know if they offer a blue-black, actually.)

[txomsy]

4 hours ago, LizEF said:

Ah, yes, these may be an option - perhaps you could mix your own blue-black?   (Don't know if they offer a blue-black, actually.)

I only know of Koh-i-noor Document Black and Document Blue.

 

Oh, and ESSRI might be an option too. It was cheap and shipped to all the world, but I am not sure any longer.

[LizEF]

48 minutes ago, txomsy said:

Oh, and ESSRI might be an option too. It was cheap and shipped to all the world, but I am not sure any longer.

I'd worry about ESSRI's fade-resistance, since other iron galls don't seem to do so well in this regard.  Otherwise, how can anyone resist Essri, he's so cute!  (Oops, wait, getting my Essri & ESSRI mixed up. )

[IanP2303]

9 hours ago, LizEF said:

And I didn't recommend it - it's not a document or pigmented ink, but an iron gall ink - many of these are known to fade when exposed to light for long enough.

 

Well, there's lousy paper, and awful paper, and kinda terrible paper, and....  You get the idea.  This paper is not consistent or controlled in any way, so my absorbent paper may or may not be as bad as other people's absorbent paper, and my pen is a Japanese EF, and theirs may not have been.  And my pen may be drier than their pen...  You get the idea - there are lots of variables.  At the end of the day, sampling in your own pen on your own paper, with your own writing pressure is the only way to be sure.

 

Your lightfastness requirement leaves out any other inks I might recommend beyond the general suggestion of "pigment" and "Document" (where "Document" is a standard used by European makers such as KWZ, R&K, and De Atramentis (perhaps others)).

Thanks Liz! 
 

Are all IG inks susceptible to fading over time? As in more significantly, no ink is truly permanent. If so, is Registrar’s prone to that too? 
 

I don’t require extremely lightfast inks, just good enough to last years and is still legible. 
 

Cheers, 

Ian

[LizEF]

2 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

Are all IG inks susceptible to fading over time?

I wouldn't know.  I don't know of comprehensive testing.  But if you search the site for "fade test", you'll find a lot of them, some with iron gall inks, and many of them fade - don't know if they all do.

 

3 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

I don’t require extremely lightfast inks, just good enough to last years and is still legible. 

In this case, IMO, unless you're planning to leave your pages strewn in the sun, nearly every ink is good.  It's rare to find an ink that fades in a closed book.  I think you've already got plenty of good recommendations in this thread, so I'd say just pick a few of those to sample.   (For example, I've got a *lot* of writing samples from the past 6 years, and as far as I can tell, not one has changed.)

[IanP2303]

9 hours ago, LizEF said:

IMO, it's a muted blue.  How dark it is depends on the wetness of the pen.  Apparently you can allow evaporation until it's at 200% concentration and it's still usable in a fountain pen.  But it's not lightfast, based on fade tests found here on FPN.  I would have recommended Pilot Blue-Black, as it's got decent water-resistance and the 350mL bottle is absurdly student-priced (dirt cheap), but not so hot light-resistance.

 

I would consider the paper more important - it will probably crumble before most dye-based inks in a closed book will fade.  Where you're at, mold attacks on the paper and humidity are probably greater threats than light, unless you plan to leave pages spread out in the sun.

 

Water is only a threat in the form of accidents or flooding - you'll have to figure out how likely those are.

 

Ah, yes, these may be an option - perhaps you could mix your own blue-black?   (Don't know if they offer a blue-black, actually.)

I might get Pilot Blue-Black for school work, and Souboku for leisure writing. Probably. As long as it’s water resistant, I’ll be fine. I use Rhodia pads for my notes, Pilot Blue-Black will do just fine on it! 

 

Mixing inks, what a wonderful idea! I should do that after the assessments!

 

I’ve never thought that searching for the perfect Blue-Black could be such a onerous task, but an enthralling one nonetheless! 

Cheers,

Ian

 

[inkstainedruth]

16 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

Cheers! This is incredibly insightful! I’ve heard that Registrar’s turns Black over time, I wouldn’t want another Black in my collection, is the statement true? However, I love the colour after it has dried for a few minutes, the perfect colour! I won’t be in contact with bleach, so it’ll be fine.

IME, Diamine Registrar's (which is an IG ink) does fade.  I don't know if I got a bad batch in the sample I bought a few years ago, but it oxidized to a very washed out blue grey.  Had nice shading, but I expect that it probably not what you want to have to read when you're grading papers.

Another vote here for Sailor Souboku (I like the color a little better than Seiboku) -- but with the caveat that pigmented inks (like IG inks) do need a little extra maintenance and may need to be flushed out a bit more often.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth