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Whats the rarest type of MB 149 nib?


ARLaipply
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Hello All,

 

Today i acquired a vintage MB149, this pen has a 18c 3 tone BB, possibly 3B nib. I was looking over the forums and see LOADS of nib tipping options, and several variations in marking type. 

 

I was curious what style & tip was the rarest nib type in the wild today? Not including the writers edition nibs, or other special nibs like the less than impressive MB149C nibs.

 

Thanks for satiating my curiosity, 

-Andrew 

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That doesn’t look like more than a “B“ nib to me. But I do agree that BB and BBB's are likely fairly rare, and even more so in oblique.

Do remember that the items on your bucket list have an expiration date.
 

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On 9/21/2022 at 3:23 PM, OCArt said:

That doesn’t look like more than a “B“ nib to me. But I do agree that BB and BBB's are likely fairly rare, and even more so in oblique.

Are mb 149 "broad" nibs wildy wider than other broad nibs? This ones is like 8-10x as wide as my finest nibs line width. More than twice the width of my lamy 1.1 stub. Which is why I assumed BB or BBB. 

 

And an oblique grind would definitely be nice for a signature pen. Do you know what karat markings and plating variations are least common? I would assume the older ones but maybe I'm wrong. 

 

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Also the Richard binder chart says 1.2mm+ is 3b and this measures out like 1.5mm+

I'm new to MB pens so I appreciate the correction/ information 

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I'd agree that it looks more like a B based on the tipping. If it's a BB it would definitely be a BB- or so. Once you start getting into the BB range, 149 nibs tend to have a lot more stubbish character and can almost look like a chisel.

 

As for your above writing sample-you have some serious feathering going on that's kicking out your line size quite a bit. The wider MB nibs do tend to write wet, which can make that worse. What paper and ink is that?

 

As to least common-they're not exactly uncommon but the tri-tone 14C nibs from the 60s seem less common than some of the other varieties(even 18C of the same age). The 14C version of this nib also gets some attention as, although I've yet to personally handle a regular production vintage 149 nib that I'd call truly flexible(not even a 50s one), the 14C nibs are a fair bit softer than the 18C versions of the same age. The wider and oblique grinds seem the most difficult to find.

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Perhaps I am wrong, but I always thought the size of a nib is primarily measured by the width of the tipping, generally speaking, not by the line it draws on paper. A nib size B is larger than an M, a BB/BBB grows in width and are larger than a B both visually and when it comes to the line it draws. 

 

The difference between a B and a 3B would be clearly huge and visible without writing with them, by simple visual comparison of the tipping/point. I do acknowledge that a B nib if soft or sort of flexible can draw a line of 2x, 3x on paper, but this would still be a B nib, not a 2B or a 3B. Flexibility I guess is another way of measuring or considering a nib. 

 

I hope this all makes sense, and if necessary, be corrected if I am wrong.

 

 

         264643240_minoxandfountainpen.png.2be96a1cb960c6ba19879d9d0fb2a13a.png              Fountain pens and Minox                                 

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It's Yama budo on no name paper, and surprisingly the feathering doesn't change the total line size that much. It starts around 1.4mm before it spreads its annoying fingers out.  I can write some on rhodia tomorrow and post it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Le Vieux said:

Perhaps I am wrong, but I always thought the size of a nib is primarily measured by the width of the tipping, generally speaking, not by the line it draws on paper. A nib size B is larger than an M, a BB/BBB grows in width and are larger than a B both visually and when it comes to the line it draws. 

According to all the nib size charts and comparisons I've seen it's based on the line itself not the tip size. 

 

Screenshot_20220922_185238.jpg

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If this is the case, I stand corrected, of course. I would've imagined that measuring the nib by its stroke would be based on the line it draws without applying any pressure. Anyways, the chart is great, thank you !

         264643240_minoxandfountainpen.png.2be96a1cb960c6ba19879d9d0fb2a13a.png              Fountain pens and Minox                                 

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2 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

Perhaps I am wrong, but I always thought the size of a nib is primarily measured by the width of the tipping, generally speaking, by the line it draws on paper without applying pressure on the nib . A nib size B is larger than an M, a BB/BBB grows in width and are larger than a B both visually and when it comes to the line it draws, without pressure. 

 

2 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

I believe this is what I should've said :) , see my edited comment in blue. 

 

         264643240_minoxandfountainpen.png.2be96a1cb960c6ba19879d9d0fb2a13a.png              Fountain pens and Minox                                 

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This isn't actually marked with a size, but if MB sold it as a regular production pen it would likely be listed as a 4B. There are some photos around here of 3B pens. Notice how visibly wide the tipping is...

 

I have a relatively recently made factory OBB nib. It's a #6 size(146 size nib on an LE) but should give you some idea of what an MB OBB looks like at least. I often use that myself as an OBB reference because it's the only MB I personally have that I know the factory considers to be that size.

 

_DSC5158.thumb.jpg.4691ee372c8d94f0f27130e262f959a4.jpg.baba5617042baf8a19b473b18bb71bc7.jpg_DSC5159.thumb.jpg.45205afd4e266b5294beb1c232b11215.jpg.089b8c3adff6625b40927fe631c30066.jpg

 

Also note that Richard's chart lays out very specific conditions for the writing test-his own paper, a specific ink, a specific stroke speed, and adjusted to his standard wetness.

 

Typically factories size nibs based on the tipping size. It's close enough and far faster to assess.

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That is a monster of a nib. I am looking for a OB or OBB myself, but this is something else entirely. Are you using it for signatures only, or ...?

 

So, I was not entirely wrong in my assumptions earlier, re nib sizing. 

         264643240_minoxandfountainpen.png.2be96a1cb960c6ba19879d9d0fb2a13a.png              Fountain pens and Minox                                 

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6 minutes ago, Le Vieux said:

That is a monster of a nib. I am looking for a OB or OBB myself, but this is something else entirely. Are you using it for signatures only, or ...?

 

So, I was not entirely wrong in my assumptions earlier, re nib sizing. 

 

This is a fun new "toy" from Fritz Schimpf in Germany. They call it the "Italic Edge." There's a ~10 page long thread here with tons of photos and writing samples of them. It's actually surprisingly usable for regular writing thanks to the line variation it gives, and when rotated and written with on the "edge" it is actually a very useable EF.

 

BTW, about 2/3 of the way down the page is a photo of a vintage 3B nib owned by Tom Kellie.

 

 

And here is the thread on the Italic Edge, the pen I show above

 

 

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So looking at that 3b in the linked post I still think it's barely bigger than the tipping on my 18c nib, I will take some loupe pics when I have a sec. It's a much more chisel like tip than it seems on the previous pics. 

However that custom wildly wide oblique is awesome and obviously wider than mine. 

 

The line I measured is using just a normal amount of pressure. Not trying to flex these nibs, God forbid I spring them. 

If I wanna flex I'll bust out the watermans :)that being said, I have a generally heavier hand than some people so there's some natural tine spread without me trying to do so. 

 

Comparing mine to that 1959 3b I would call mine a 2b+ or something. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

Your pictured "M" looks like a typical 149 EF nib grind...

Yeah i do not know at all, that's just what it was sold to me as, it does seem to write a line similar to a western medium so i guess that's why the seller assumed medium maybe? 
I was also dubious of that medium being true that's why i put the "M" in quotes with an arrow that said "sold as", because it looked similar to EF advertised nibs I've seen but again none of them were stickered just being sold as "EF"
 

 

58 minutes ago, irrigger said:

A double broad should have a profile similar to this,

[pic1] [pic2]

So i whipped out the calipers on my tipping material, it measures out at about 1,1mm wide. Those pictures look like that nib measures around 1,6-1,7mm on that BB.  Do you happen to have a similar calibrated pic of a standard Broad tip?

 

 

unrelated to either quote: 

Does anyone know whether their tip sizes were standardized back in the 70's or was there variation due to whatever outdated manufacturing techniques being used?  I've heard stories that historically the dealer would basically sell you a pen, and you would try various nibs until you found the one you like best and it would go into the pen body. Which makes it sound like the nibs were random tip sizes and you just picked from the options the store had, not like today where you buy a pen with a specific tip.

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I'm far from a nib expert but I find the best way to tell the nib size is the angle of the outside edge of the tips when looking face on.  Typically, the straighter, the broader, as far as I can tell?

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