Refilling cartrdiges vs using a converter

[txomsy]

For me, the nipple is an issue too.

 

Both, cartridge and nipple are plastics. As is the converter.

 

I prefer converters and filling from the bottle through the nib because then all works like a piece and there is no wearing, plus the feed is primed. Leaving the cartridge also facilitate flushing/cleaning.

 

Syringe filling has its advantages, though, specially in full-length pens that can take two cartridges in the body. The thing is that if they can take two short cartridges, then they can also take a double-length cartridge as well, and that puts them in line with piston fillers in capacity. Thus, when refilling, I prefer full-length (or double-length if you like) international cartridges. But then, cleaning is more laborious (squeezing the cartridge is not an option as @USG points out), you also need to clean the cartridge (easy by flushing it with the syringe filled with water, but more work nonetheless), and you are putting and removing the cartridge on the nipple many times, which may wear both cartridge (which is easy to replace by a new one) and nipple (which is not).

 

I've had nipples breaking (granted, on old pens where the plastic might be aged) and worn (and then cartridges not sealing well and leaking --but that might have been due to different cartridge gauges in a time when ignorance made one believe all cartridges/nipples were equal).

 

So, in general, over the years I developed a preference for converters. Less fuss and more convenience. I simply always have a rag cloth around, and since I developed allergy, also paper napkins, so no problem cleaning after refilling, or drying the cap after washing. And I leave refilling (long, but also short) cartridges for those situations where I cannot carry an ink bottle.

 

That is also changing. The most easily obtainable and affordable converters nowadays are Chinese, and sadly of terrible quality. Yes, they look well, and yes they work well... for some time, then most stop sucking ink or start leaking in the back. usually it is because the rear seal fails, which sometimes only needs a re-screwing, but also because the piston seal fails many times or gets stuck (I suppose cheap plastic is used that sticks to the walls). Other times it is the mouth diameter or the mouth wearing out.

 

I favor more expensive, good brand cartridges for expensive pens, but somehow feel bad expending more on a cartridge than on the pen for cheaper ones. The thing is that as I grow tired of having problems with cheap converters I'm finding myself more attracted to cartridges for cheaper pens, and if the pen suffers, it won't be a great loss. Though I also hate thinking of disposing of broken pens and increasing trash. Bottom line, I'm starting to hate Chinese pens or Chinese-made pens, and seeking reliable and durable brands made elsewhere (Japan, India, Pakistan, Europe, US, whatever).

 

I know, there are good Chinese pens, but looking for them is just starting to not be worth it for me, and I prefer to pay a premium for the security.

[A Smug Dill]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:42 AM, apastuszak said:

Assuming that cartridge wear out is not an old wives tale, how long can I expect a cartridge to last before it wears out?

 

16 hours ago, apastuszak said:

Refilling converters/cartridges just eliminates inky fingers and paper towels. It's a cleaner filling experience for me.

 

9 hours ago, apastuszak said:

Wasted ink doesn't end up in landfill.

 

Then don't worry about setting expectations as to longevity of each ink cartridge, which can vary due to so many factors anyway. Keep refilling an ink cartridge until it no longer works, either because the pen won't write any more with it, or ink starts observably leaking from the interface between cartridge and feed (or the hollow connector post on the nib collar). When that happens, all that you will have wasted is - at most - a fresh (re)fill of ink, but you will extracted as much use out of the moulded plastic object as possible.

 

Whereas, for me, losing 0.5ml of an even moderately expensive (or rare) ink would be a far bigger deal than consuming paper towels. Using converters also means my personally contributing less plastic waste, not that I care either way.

[bugsydog55]

This seems to be a topic that comes around every once in a great while, which is not a bad thing.  A lot will depend on your particular pen usage and how much cartridges mean to you.  There are more than a few people that absolutely loath them while others pre fer them above any other way to ink a pen.  My experience shows that international standard cartridges will wear out at the nipple simply due to the tiny amount of friction caused by putting it on and off the section.  It's the reason there is a "hack" for Kaweco Sport users where a simple ballpoint pen spring can be inserted into the barrel and that will supply enough force to hold what would be a loose and worn out cartridge on to the section.  I have actually used the refillable cartridges that Noodler's makes for their Ahab pens.  Those seem so much easier to use than those easily stripped converters.  All in all, I have carts that I need to use before they evaporate but I have to make myself do it.  Perhaps it's a bottled ink thing but I wouldn't have the carts if I didn't like the color.  So. I think I'll monitor this conversation and see where it goes.

[Monophoto]

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

 

Then don't worry about setting expectations as to longevity of each ink cartridge, which can vary due to so many factors anyway. Keep refilling an ink cartridge until it no longer works, either because the pen won't write any more with it, or ink starts observably leaking from the interface between cartridge and feed (or the hollow connector post on the nib collar). When that happens, all that you will have wasted is - at most - a fresh (re)fill of ink, but you will extracted as much use out of the moulded plastic object as possible.

 

 

I have no doubt that cartridges can wear out, and that there are many factors that contribute to that wear.  I suspect that cartridges from some manufacturers will wear out faster than those from other manufacturers, but also that some of the other factors are so significant that it's not possible to make any definitive predictions. 

 

So I agree with Smug - it may be fine for cartridge wear and failure to be the topic of conversation and debate in a group of pen aficionados who are sharing a pitcher of beer, but I don't think it is something to really fret about.  I use refilled cartridges in one of my pens (because the body is too short to accommodate a converter), and so far (after about 5 years), I've not have a leak.

[USG]

2 hours ago, bugsydog55 said:

This seems to be a topic that comes around every once in a great while, which is not a bad thing.  A lot will depend on your particular pen usage and how much cartridges mean to you.  There are more than a few people that absolutely loath them while others pre fer them above any other way to ink a pen.  My experience shows that international standard cartridges will wear out at the nipple simply due to the tiny amount of friction caused by putting it on and off the section.  It's the reason there is a "hack" for Kaweco Sport users where a simple ballpoint pen spring can be inserted into the barrel and that will supply enough force to hold what would be a loose and worn out cartridge on to the section.  I have actually used the refillable cartridges that Noodler's makes for their Ahab pens.  Those seem so much easier to use than those easily stripped converters.  All in all, I have carts that I need to use before they evaporate but I have to make myself do it.  Perhaps it's a bottled ink thing but I wouldn't have the carts if I didn't like the color.  So. I think I'll monitor this conversation and see where it goes.

These are from the early 2000s

 

[ParramattaPaul]

2 hours ago, USG said:

I have carts that I need to use before they evaporate

Shall I show you the Platignum cartridges I still have from the 1970s/80s?  Visually, they are still good.

[DrPlush]

I refill cartridges most of the time, and I’m sure they do wear out but I’m yet to have it happen. I’ve been using the same Pilot ones for maybe 30+ fills, Platinum for 20+, and Kaweco and Pelikan for 10+.

 

As I understand it, the Majohn A1 sealable cartridges someone else posted fit Pilot pens. And, as someone else also said, you can also use the little disc that falls in when you pop a Pilot cartridge to re-seal it. The Kuretake Karappo cartridges (which come empty) fit Platinum and have a version with stoppers, although I’m not sure about whether you can re-seal them after the first time. There are also some other stoppers on the market, but I can’t seem to find a link right now.

 

 If you’re concerned about carrying around a needle, you could consider a pipette.

[DrPlush]

1 minute ago, tjfar said:

I refill cartridges most of the time, and I’m sure they do wear out but I’m yet to have it happen. I’ve been using the same Pilot ones for maybe 30+ fills, Platinum for 20+, and Kaweco and Pelikan for 10+.

 

As I understand it, the Majohn A1 sealable cartridges someone else posted fit Pilot pens. And, as someone else also said, you can also use the little disc that falls in when you pop a Pilot cartridge to re-seal it. The Kuretake Karappo cartridges (which come empty) fit Platinum and have a version with stoppers, although I’m not sure about whether you can re-seal them after the first time. There are also some other stoppers on the market, but I can’t seem to find a link right now.

 

 If you’re concerned about carrying around a needle, you could consider a pipette.

I have also never really thought about the point others have made that using a converter helps clean the pen with every refill — it’s an interesting consideration! In my case, I switch inks almost every time I fill so they get done with a bulb syringe almost as often.

[ErrantSmudge]

2 minutes ago, tjfar said:

I have also never really thought about the point others have made that using a converter helps clean the pen with every refill — it’s an interesting consideration! In my case, I switch inks almost every time I fill so they get done with a bulb syringe almost as often.

 

I'm interested to know how you do this without getting watery/washed-out writing immediately after changing colors.  Another problem with syringe-filling is that it often takes time to prime the feed, and in my experience it often takes quite a bit more time than with a cartridge on its first use.  Do you have some sort of trick for dealing with that issue aside from just squeezing the cartridge to force ink into the feed?

[Gloucesterman]

2 hours ago, USG said:

These are from the early 2000s

 

A while back I bought a couple of boxes full of left over stuff from a local stationery store that went out of business 15-20 years ago. Among the stuff in the boxes were more than thirty packages of dried up Sheaffer cartridges (regular and slim ones). Using a needle point syringe (CAREFULLY) I injected some tap water into the cartridge and have been using them ever since. No problems have been encountered, to date (maybe 6-10+ cartridges used) and I have really enjoyed the old Sheaffer Peacock blue and regular brown inks. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle filling them with water and, in my mind, it's worth the effort. In the past I have reused cartridge and really don't like it.

 

Personally, if I am getting a new pen where no converter is included, I either don't buy the pen or I spring for a converter.

 

A while back, somewhere (maybe here on FPN, someone did a comparison of the cost differences if one used cartridges versus bottled ink. Of course bottled ink was way less expensive. The cost of a converter would easily pay for itself over time and offer a significantly greater choice of inks than relying on manufactured cartridges.

 

Finally, sometime ago, some dealer, I think it was Fahrney's, offered some kind of "refund/bounty" to people who sent in empty cartridges. I think it was their way of recycling the empties as well as a marketing ploy for more business. No idea how long it lasted or if it was successful in any way.

 

I would love to see manufacturers (and resellers) offer a refilling service where we sent back the bottles, they were cleaned and refilled and then returned to us. I know that a lot of money and effort goes in to making and shipping the bottles that our ink comes in.

[Gloucesterman]

18 minutes ago, ErrantSmudge said:

Do you have some sort of trick for dealing with that issue aside from just squeezing the cartridge to force ink into the feed?

On the occasion when I use a cartridge in a new pen, I simply wrap the nib in a napkin or towels (make sure there are several layers of material covering the nib) and shake it down with a bit if effort - similar to how one would rest a mercury thermometer in days long past for some. I still have and, when needed, use my mercury thermometer.

 

More often than not two or three good shakes will prime the nib/feed and one is ready to write.

YMMV of course!

[USG]

6 hours ago, Gloucesterman said:

A while back I bought a couple of boxes full of left over stuff from a local stationery store that went out of business 15-20 years ago. Among the stuff in the boxes were more than thirty packages of dried up Sheaffer cartridges (regular and slim ones). Using a needle point syringe (CAREFULLY) I injected some tap water into the cartridge and have been using them ever since. No problems have been encountered, to date (maybe 6-10+ cartridges used) and I have really enjoyed the old Sheaffer Peacock blue and regular brown inks. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle filling them with water and, in my mind, it's worth the effort. In the past I have reused cartridge and really don't like it.

 

Personally, if I am getting a new pen where no converter is included, I either don't buy the pen or I spring for a converter.

 

A while back, somewhere (maybe here on FPN, someone did a comparison of the cost differences if one used cartridges versus bottled ink. Of course bottled ink was way less expensive. The cost of a converter would easily pay for itself over time and offer a significantly greater choice of inks than relying on manufactured cartridges.

 

Finally, sometime ago, some dealer, I think it was Fahrney's, offered some kind of "refund/bounty" to people who sent in empty cartridges. I think it was their way of recycling the empties as well as a marketing ploy for more business. No idea how long it lasted or if it was successful in any way.

 

I would love to see manufacturers (and resellers) offer a refilling service where we sent back the bottles, they were cleaned and refilled and then returned to us. I know that a lot of money and effort goes in to making and shipping the bottles that our ink comes in.

 +1  👍🙂

[jchch1950]

Cartridges are great to travel, specially for long trips of several weeks and places, and an ink bottle is less convenient .Converters give a wider choice of ink colours and brands.  Eventually you have a set of pens to travel and another group to use them at home or office. Noodlers have some refillable cartridges but they are only usable with some of their own pens.

[txomsy]

9 hours ago, ErrantSmudge said:

Do you have some sort of trick for dealing with that issue aside from just squeezing the cartridge to force ink into the feed?

For me, squeezing a cartridge is asking for trouble.

 

What I do, when I use cartridges is I give the pen a shake, a radial movement with the forearm holding the pen with the nib away from the center of movement and wrapped in a rag or kleen-ex until I get a drop of ink out in the rag or napkin does it. I just am careful not to do it where I can hit the pen against anything.

 

Another way is to hold the pen nib down, and give it a vigorous vertical shake over/inside a trash bin until I see one or two drops staining the trash in the bin, Again being careful not to hit the pen against anything.

 

[txomsy]

40 minutes ago, jchch1950 said:

Cartridges are great to travel, specially for long trips of several weeks and places, and an ink bottle is less convenient .Converters give a wider choice of ink colours and brands.  Eventually you have a set of pens to travel and another group to use them at home or office. Noodlers have some refillable cartridges but they are only usable with some of their own pens.

That's true.

 

But also, in modern times when one may have many pens, I have ended traveling with several converter pens loaded so if one empties I have another ready. That's my preferred approach, I seldomly use cartridges as I mentioned.

[Arkanabar]

My greatest experience is with Pilot cartridges.  I have refilled the cartridge in my 3.8mm Pilot Para//el numerous times, quite possibly more than ten, and it still shows no signs of leaking.  I used it for over a year to put patient MRNs on file folders, in three-inch tall letters.

 

Pilot carts might possibly be resealed instead of just refilled.  You would have to remove the little sealing disc and save it, refill, and then re-seat the disc in the throat of the cartridge.  I've never tried this, but I recall (perhaps incorrectly) somebody here claiming success in doing so.

 

Disposable bulb pipettes can be used to refill both Platinum and Pilot carts, though you must remove the sealing disc from the Pilot carts before attempting such a refill.

 

When I need to prime a feed, I drop the pen onto a writing surface from a height of 2cm or so.  For most modern nail nibs, this should not be far enough to cause damage.

[USG]

Just got another converter in the mail...

 

I think this was mentioned, the biggest factor regarding Refilling Cartridges Vs. Converters is capacity.  Cartridges hold much more ink than converters.

 

 

If you change inks as often as I do, diminished capacity is not a factor and priming the feed with the new ink is.

 

Also, I've never noticed this in any other cartridges or converters,  maybe some of you have, but in Waterman cartridges, there is a little ball inside that stops the ink from pooling at the other end of the cartridge.

 

[ParramattaPaul]

1 hour ago, USG said:

I've never noticed this in any other cartridges or converters,  maybe some of you have, but in Waterman cartridges, there is a little ball inside that stops the ink from pooling at the other end of the cartridge.

 

I've not seen it in cartridges, but I have seen in a converter I have.

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, USG said:

I've never noticed this in any other cartridges or converters,  maybe some of you have,

 

Definitely in Platinum ink cartridges.

[dipper]

The little plastic ball is the seal at the tip of the cartridge. When the cartridge is pushed into the pen the ball is popped out of its seating into the body of the cartridge. Gives a tidy neat opening since no spike is piercing the cartridge, plus the ink agitator effect as a free bonus.

 

Waterman long international standard cartridge with the little plastic ball in its original position:

 

And an empty Pentel FP10 cartridge (for brush pen) with the same idea - but using a bigger steel ball... (Thicker brush pen ink needs a monster agitator!?)