Four Ostrich iron gall blue-black inks: A Serial Review

[PithyProlix]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

Send him an email. He's very personable and nice person and will add it. 

 

Thanks! I missed the email link on the list before. I'll also ask if there is any feasible way to confirm an ink has iron gall without having access to a proper chemistry lab.

[A Smug Dill]

46 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

I'll also ask if there is any feasible way to confirm an ink has iron gall without having access to a proper chemistry lab.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=iron-gall+ink+test

[PithyProlix]

There's a claim on a Google-translated Chinese discussion page I just found that 903 is not iron gall. I also just noticed that the product number changed after the maker, Tianjin Ostrich, told me that all their blue blacks are iron gall, suggesting a different at the time I communicated with them.  [EDIT: I now think I am wrong about the product number change. There is (or was) another Ostrich blue black called 913, hence my confusion.] I will try to confirm with Tianjin Ostrich and report back.

 

EDIT #2: I meant to also write that the claim on the Chinese discussion page is that the formulation of 903 was originally iron gall but was reformulated. Here's the page, in case anyone is interested: https://www.zhihu.com/question/512226668

[Dip n Scratch]

That delivery time on the Ostrich ink doesn't really matter I have another IG ink to use.

[TSherbs]

great review, love the comparison

[PithyProlix]

9 hours ago, TSherbs said:

great review, love the comparison

 

Thanks! 

[A Smug Dill]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:13 PM, PithyProlix said:

Here's the page, in case anyone is interested: https://www.zhihu.com/question/512226668

 

Thank you for that.

 

Did you end up looking into the commercially available testing papers for the detection (of mere presence, not the degree) of iron-gall content?

 

[OCArt]

I always thought that bleach could be used to determine (in a non-precise way) if an in was iron gall.  See:

 

[A Smug Dill]

37 minutes ago, OCArt said:

I always thought that bleach could be used to determine (in a non-precise way) if an in was iron gall.

 

I'd say that is not a good enough test for the keen hobbyist trying to ascertain the answer:

 

It's better to use a commercial product designed and manufactured for the specific purpose, such that those without access to a proper laboratory set-up and/or outsourced professional testing services can get reliable results, perhaps at higher unit cost than an organisation that does such work at an industrial scale.

 

[PithyProlix]

5 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Did you end up looking into the commercially available testing papers for the detection (of mere presence, not the degree) of iron-gall content?

 

I did a little and I've asked for a shipping quote from one but I think it will wind up being more than I'm willing to spend.

 

Since it has been about 2 years since I last communicated with Tianjin Ostrich I've now asked them specifically about 903 - hopefully they will get back with me soon. If the maker claims an ink they make is iron gall and the ink acts/looks consistent with how an iron gall ink should - e.g. visible color change consistent with oxidation of the iron, resistance to water, shades like iron gall inks tend to shade (yes, this is a bit subjective and hard to define), the yellowish trace of rust after putting bleach on it per the thread @OCArt linked to two posts back - then I think the corroborating evidence will be sufficient enough for me.

[TSherbs]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:41 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

I'd say that is not a good enough test for the keen hobbyist trying to ascertain the answer:

 

It's better to use a commercial product designed and manufactured for the specific purpose, such that those without access to a proper laboratory set-up and/or outsourced professional testing services can get reliable results, perhaps at higher unit cost than an organisation that does such work at an industrial scale.

 

 

I see yellowish remnants in all these entries (as OCArt postulated). I'm not sure that this means that the test isn't reliable enough for the bulk of us. Sure, it's not a professional lab test, etc. 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:55 AM, TSherbs said:

I see yellowish remnants in all these entries

 

I think you're imagining things to suit your narrative, if you see yellowish remnants after the writing in KWZ Ink IG Green #3 and KWZ Ink IG Turquoise has been bleached. The writing in R&K Scabiosa is not yellowish but orangey-red after bleaching.

 

Furthermore, you also have no reason to conclude that yellowish remnants after treatment with bleach means or proves an ink has iron-gall content. See:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/367684-bleach-testing-basic-blacks-and-blues-herbin-jacques-herbin-platinum-and-registrars/

where it's been demonstrated that some non-IG inks can leave yellowish remnants, perhaps even more so than Pelikan 4001 Blue/Black and Diamine Registrar's Ink, after treatment with bleach.

 

 

[TSherbs]

roger roger

 

 

[PithyProlix]

I received a response from Ostrich Tianjin about 903. They say it is still iron gall, but has changed:

 

"It's still iron gall but the formulation changed a lot, so the behave is not act like iron gall. Especially water proof.

But after the time changing the color will still become darker and darker ...

You can regard it as a mixture."

 

Should be interesting to see more details about this 903 in future episodes of this review.

[TSherbs]

Just now, PithyProlix said:

I received a response from Ostrich Tianjin about 903. They say it is still iron gall, but has changed:

 

"It's still iron gall but the formulation changed a lot, so the behave is not act like iron gall. Especially water proof.

But after the time changing the color will still become darker and darker ...

You can regard it as a mixture."

 

Should be interesting to see more details about this 903 in future episodes of this review.

 

so, *it is and it isn't* iron gall

 

good to know! 

[A Smug Dill]

30 minutes ago, TSherbs said:

so, *it is and it isn't* iron gall

 

She may still be pregnant, but just not carrying a human embryo.

[yazeh]

2 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

I received a response from Ostrich Tianjin about 903. They say it is still iron gall, but has changed:

 

"It's still iron gall but the formulation changed a lot, so the behave is not act like iron gall. Especially water proof.

But after the time changing the color will still become darker and darker ...

You can regard it as a mixture."

 

Should be interesting to see more details about this 903 in future episodes of this review.

SO did your 903 darken or is it like some of supposed Stipula/ KWZ IGs?

[PithyProlix]

Episode 2: Attack of the Ostriches

194 days later and there is unrest in the Galactic Flightless Bird Senate. The Republic's power, while still present, has faded considerably with tinted potency and several thousand solar systems have declared their intentions to leave. This Separatist movement, under the leadership of the mysterious Count Emu-903, has remained strong but Dark and has made it difficult for the limited number of Cassowary Knights to maintain peace and order in the galaxy.

 

In other words, for the less silly and more mature among us: 

The two original samples were left out in the open for 194 days with direct contact to air in a relatively darker location in my office that receives varying degrees of indirect sunlight per day. The blue dye of 223, 313, & 553 has faded considerably but still distinct as a green-leaning blue-black, if much more grey. (Somewhat interestingly, the color reminds me a bit of how some versions of Sheaffer, Parker, and Waterman blue-black inks look, even before any fading.) The blue dye of 903, which has a darker blue dyes than the others, seems to have remained without any significant fading.

 

In future episodes I'll likely include Hero 232 as a more familiar comparison ink and Pilot Blue Black as a 'control', of sorts.

 

 

Day 0 photos for comparison: 

 

[yazeh]

Thanks for the pithy update of the wayward Emu dyes

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

194 days later and there is unrest in the Galactic Flightless Bird Senate. The Republic's power, while still present, has faded considerably with tinted potency and several thousand solar systems have declared their intentions to leave. This Separatist movement, under the leadership of the mysterious Count Emu-903, has remained strong but Dark and has made it difficult for the limited number of Cassowary Knights to maintain peace and order in the galaxy.