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Having ink flow issue on my Jinhao 85


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I have a Jinhao 85 stainless steel finish, it has problem of ink starvation in the nib after writing couple of lines. The thickness of line becomes thin and faded. I have taken out the nib, increased the nib slit slightly to increase the flow and washed it properly still no effect on the issue. What is causing such thing to happen I am just unable to identify. Anyone's solution to this problem would of great help. Such a nice looking pen is being just a sitting duck is very disappointing to me. 

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When you cleaned it did you separate the nib/feed unit and clean it well? If it were mine I'd just replace the nib as they are so inexpensive, as a fan of broad nibs I've replaced mine with a mild fudé.

Do remember that the items on your bucket list have an expiration date.
 

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As well as a suitable size of nib slit there are a few more things necessary for a pen to write well, and continue to write well line after line.

 

(These will seem a bit obvious, but I will list them anyway - and then suggest ways you can check to see if the pen is suffering from any of these problems.)

 

1 ) The inside surfaces need to be 100% free from any oily contamination. If you have cleaned all parts well that should be OK. But if in doubt, rinse the whole pen again with hand-warm water and detergent, then rinse out the detergent with plain warm water.

 

2 ) The ink stored inside the pen needs to be down at the bottom of the converter, in contact with the back end of the feed. Not stuck up at the top of the converter with an air space beneath!

You can check by unscrewing the body of the pen to reveal the converter, and write like that. It is easy to see if there is a big air space. Not so easy to see if there is a small air space, down at the junction between converter and pen grip section. Tapping the side of the pen with your finger can sometimes release a small trapped air bubble from deep down. Difficult to see that through the ink (!) but suddenly the pen will write well again, until the next bubble forms.

 

3 ) The pen needs to be able to draw in a steady supply of air, to replace the ink leaving the converter. If the air cannot be drawn in easily then the pressure inside the pen will drop as ink is used, and ink line wetness on the paper will become less and less.

You can observe that by filling the pen with water mixed with a drop of detergent (to match the surface tension of typical ink). Then stand the pen upright with nib tip resting on a cloth or paper towel, pen body removed so you can see the converter. After some water has flowed out of the nib and is soaking into the cloth you should see occasional small air bubbles rising up inside the converter. If you see no rising bubbles, and the water stops flowing out into the cloth, then the pen has some breathing problem.

There can be various causes. Start by looking closely at the air channel in the feed, if nothing is obviously wrong come back to this thread for further ideas.

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5 hours ago, dipper said:

As well as a suitable size of nib slit there are a few more things necessary for a pen to write well, and continue to write well line after line.

 

(These will seem a bit obvious, but I will list them anyway - and then suggest ways you can check to see if the pen is suffering from any of these problems.)

 

1 ) The inside surfaces need to be 100% free from any oily contamination. If you have cleaned all parts well that should be OK. But if in doubt, rinse the whole pen again with hand-warm water and detergent, then rinse out the detergent with plain warm water.

 

2 ) The ink stored inside the pen needs to be down at the bottom of the converter, in contact with the back end of the feed. Not stuck up at the top of the converter with an air space beneath!

You can check by unscrewing the body of the pen to reveal the converter, and write like that. It is easy to see if there is a big air space. Not so easy to see if there is a small air space, down at the junction between converter and pen grip section. Tapping the side of the pen with your finger can sometimes release a small trapped air bubble from deep down. Difficult to see that through the ink (!) but suddenly the pen will write well again, until the next bubble forms.

 

3 ) The pen needs to be able to draw in a steady supply of air, to replace the ink leaving the converter. If the air cannot be drawn in easily then the pressure inside the pen will drop as ink is used, and ink line wetness on the paper will become less and less.

You can observe that by filling the pen with water mixed with a drop of detergent (to match the surface tension of typical ink). Then stand the pen upright with nib tip resting on a cloth or paper towel, pen body removed so you can see the converter. After some water has flowed out of the nib and is soaking into the cloth you should see occasional small air bubbles rising up inside the converter. If you see no rising bubbles, and the water stops flowing out into the cloth, then the pen has some breathing problem.

There can be various causes. Start by looking closely at the air channel in the feed, if nothing is obviously wrong come back to this thread for further ideas.

It seems to become good in terms of ink flow over a paper towel and there is no issue with the converter as well. But thing happens when it is used to write on paper. I have used Parker quink blue ink in my jinhao 85,it is a good ink with excellent flow. Still the problem persisted. 

Regarding the Feed and nib I am attaching some pictures to find out whether the feeder is causing the issue. IMG_20220705_092339.thumb.jpg.9b5ea91a5982871ca5799c8ef8f6bcc2.jpgIMG_20220705_092322.thumb.jpg.a0c567392eb92d734d526cd59d670c0b.jpg

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The nib end part of the feed channel seems completely choked up to me. In the bottom picture. If you have a very sharp knife, you might want to try scraping it out. Or use an old toothbrush and dish detergent and wash especially that part by hand. Afterwards rinse well with water to remove anything remaining, either particles or detergent.

I have had good results with both methods.

Do let us know your results.

 

a fountain pen is physics in action... Proud member of the SuperPinks

fpn_1425200643__fpn_1425160066__super_pi

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@AvishekI like your use of upside-down staples as the background! 

Do remember that the items on your bucket list have an expiration date.
 

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9 hours ago, mhguda said:

The nib end part of the feed channel seems completely choked up to me. In the bottom picture.......

Yes, I see that.

 

But how to clean it out.....?

 

First, worth questioning if that is a correctly made ink "fissure" blocked with gunk, or if something went wrong in the plastic injection moulding process?

 

The fibres of a toothbrush are somtimes able to fit inside a shallow ink fissure. Some feeds have very deep fissures though, with the bottom out-of-reach by toothbrush scrubbing.

 

Cleaning out the fissure with "a sharp knife" requires more precision than I can manage, and a very special sort of knife (my knives and scalpels are all too fat behind the sharp edge), and also carries the risk of cutting into the side walls of the fissure.

 

I prefer to use a customised safety razor blade, as below:

 

First I rub the sharp edges of the razor blade on abrasive paper to make it blunt and safe to handle.

Then with pliers snap the blade to make a suitably shaped corner. The snapped corner may be slightly bent, but abrasive paper will remove any bent bits easily.

Then shape the scraper-end of the tool with finer abrasive paper. Don't try to make it sharp like a knife. The idea is to make the edges square - as a scraper that will remove the gunk in the feed fissure without risking cutting the plastic.

 

The example pictured below measures 0.10mm to 0.11mm thick, and fits neatly into the fissures of plastic feeds.

The business-end is the prong at the left of picture.

IMG_20220705_230457-01.thumb.jpeg.f1d18ff6654d19a669ef0769b5d65590.jpeg

 

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I have good experience using something like this... image.jpeg.aa9fd88f65ec5e87f4a6b8285278e9e4.jpeg

a fountain pen is physics in action... Proud member of the SuperPinks

fpn_1425200643__fpn_1425160066__super_pi

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11 hours ago, dipper said:

Yes, I see that.

 

But how to clean it out.....?

 

First, worth questioning if that is a correctly made ink "fissure" blocked with gunk, or if something went wrong in the plastic injection moulding process?

 

The fibres of a toothbrush are somtimes able to fit inside a shallow ink fissure. Some feeds have very deep fissures though, with the bottom out-of-reach by toothbrush scrubbing.

 

Cleaning out the fissure with "a sharp knife" requires more precision than I can manage, and a very special sort of knife (my knives and scalpels are all too fat behind the sharp edge), and also carries the risk of cutting into the side walls of the fissure.

 

I prefer to use a customised safety razor blade, as below:

 

First I rub the sharp edges of the razor blade on abrasive paper to make it blunt and safe to handle.

Then with pliers snap the blade to make a suitably shaped corner. The snapped corner may be slightly bent, but abrasive paper will remove any bent bits easily.

Then shape the scraper-end of the tool with finer abrasive paper. Don't try to make it sharp like a knife. The idea is to make the edges square - as a scraper that will remove the gunk in the feed fissure without risking cutting the plastic.

 

The example pictured below measures 0.10mm to 0.11mm thick, and fits neatly into the fissures of plastic feeds.

The business-end is the prong at the left of picture.

IMG_20220705_230457-01.thumb.jpeg.f1d18ff6654d19a669ef0769b5d65590.jpeg

 

After cleaning the channel of the feed near the tip with a razor blade as paper cutter won't for this tiny feed system ( looks way bigger in the picture) 

IMG_20220706_152027.jpg

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I will ink test it and let you guys know whether the problem has resolved or not. 

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After ink testing the results are identical to the issue! 

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Maybe give the ink a little more time to seep down into the feed, standing the pen nib down?

Also, have you checked that the cartridge or converter, as the case may be, sits correctly and snugly, and that no air bubble is obstructing?

If all that is OK and you still have no flow, I'm stumped.

a fountain pen is physics in action... Proud member of the SuperPinks

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Check that your ink-fissure-cleaning-tool will slide along the entire length of the fissure, from the nib-end all the way to the tail that goes up into the cartridge or converter.

 

Here are before-and-after photos of a feed that was giving me ink flow strangulation problems in the past.

The pen had been used with a dozen or so cartridges that were sealed with a hard little plastic ball. Top image shows how repeatedly pushing the hard plastic balls against the feed, to pop into the cartridge, had flattened and blocked the back end of the ink fissure.

Bottom image shows the same feed after corrective surgery.

 

large.IMG_1229-01.jpeg.8af756611bcbd1df35bc172407dd476a.jpeglarge.IMG_1304-01.jpeg.28187f493ef4adc36d91ecca944f4285.jpeg

 

 

 

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@dipper Very useful photos and info, thanks!

Do remember that the items on your bucket list have an expiration date.
 

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I still suspect this is an air/ink exchange "breathing" problem.

 

Looking at the photos of the feed, notice that there is no air breather channel visible in the top-down view at the nib end of the feed - only a single loooong ink fissure!

Imagining the areas we can't see, I guess that the air flow going into the converter must first enter the pen somewhere underneath the feed, then travel up one single channel around each side of the feed (visible), then meet the ink fissure at the point marked in the photo below....

IMG_20220706_152027.thumb.jpg.f733f5f6f6480d8cdfce58de02bf914e-01.jpeg.a8ee1c53efeca14f9a6dcf9aee080799.jpeg

... then the air channel on top, and the ink fissure down in the base of that wider channel, both pass to the back end of the feed, one on top of the other, as visible in the edited photo.

 

So .... ? ? ? ..... What is the hidden air entry point underneath the feed like? Could that entry point become completely closed off? Say, by the feed being inserted too deep into the pen grip section?

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17 hours ago, dipper said:

I still suspect this is an air/ink exchange "breathing" problem.

 

Looking at the photos of the feed, notice that there is no air breather channel visible in the top-down view at the nib end of the feed - only a single loooong ink fissure!

Imagining the areas we can't see, I guess that the air flow going into the converter must first enter the pen somewhere underneath the feed, then travel up one single channel around each side of the feed (visible), then meet the ink fissure at the point marked in the photo below....

IMG_20220706_152027.thumb.jpg.f733f5f6f6480d8cdfce58de02bf914e-01.jpeg.a8ee1c53efeca14f9a6dcf9aee080799.jpeg

... then the air channel on top, and the ink fissure down in the base of that wider channel, both pass to the back end of the feed, one on top of the other, as visible in the edited photo.

 

So .... ? ? ? ..... What is the hidden air entry point underneath the feed like? Could that entry point become completely closed off? Say, by the feed being inserted too deep into the pen grip section?

I am attaching some more pictures of the feed

IMG_20220708_220721.jpg

IMG_20220708_220804.jpg

IMG_20220708_220913.jpg

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Hmmmmm...🤔

 

Nice clear photos.

 

Everything looks good in the feed. Nice big air channel under the front part of the feed (scooped out spaces in the fins).

Clean unobstructed connection from under-feed air channel up to the top of the feed.

 

I am running out of options!

 

Are you using an unusually "dry" ink?

(But even if so, that would not really explain why the pen writes well for a time after filling, and then changes to writing thin faint lines.)

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On 7/10/2022 at 5:27 AM, dipper said:

Hmmmmm...🤔

 

Nice clear photos.

 

Everything looks good in the feed. Nice big air channel under the front part of the feed (scooped out spaces in the fins).

Clean unobstructed connection from under-feed air channel up to the top of the feed.

 

I am running out of options!

 

Are you using an unusually "dry" ink?

(But even if so, that would not really explain why the pen writes well for a time after filling, and then changes to writing thin faint lines.)

No, I use Parker Quink which is known for its wetness. I don't think the ink is causing any problem . 

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On 7/12/2022 at 1:53 PM, Avishek said:

I use Parker Quink which is known for its wetness. I don't think the ink is causing any problem . 

Oh dear ... this mystery problem becomes ever deeper and more mysterious!

 

Your inky-fingers photo shows Blue, or maybe Blue-Black. No problems reported with either of those inks.

 

Quink BLACK has occasional rare issues in a very few pens. Even the experts don't know why.

The topic linked below is an interesting read, showing that other mystery problems do occur.

 

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Hello.

 

 I'm not an expert so I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

 

 Go back to the first image and tap the photo with the nibs.

 Next, tap the image with two xes in the upper right corner again to greatly enlarge the image.

 

 Looking at the nib points that appear in the resulting image, you can see the notebook paper on the other side through the gap. (It may be a reflection of light)

 It also looks like a foreign object is caught in the slit.

 

 If this is a foreign object, is this a deliberate insertion? (There is a description that the slit is widened), and does it affect the ink flow?

 

large.1544471640_Screenshot_20220714-0051242.png.ca8f38130ad89b18f1da752f6ac8e0f1.png

 

 

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