Pilot Tsuwairo Ink

[Maurizio]

I was interested to read here on this forum about Pilot’s new line of permanent or quasi-permanent inks. Where can I buy some? I checked a few USA retailer websites and they’re not listed.

 

Are they available from any European retailers?

Ok, found some on this Italian site: https://www.stiloestile.it/en/inks/water-resistant/pilot-tsuwairo-nero-inchiostro-30-ml

 

Also a quick internet search doesn’t reveal any reviews of these inks done here on the FPN. 

 

Can it be there’s a new ink and not one person has reviewed it here yet?

[JulieParadise]

5 hours ago, Maurizio said:

Also a quick internet search doesn’t reveal any reviews of these inks done here on the FPN. 

 

Can it be there’s a new ink and not one person has reviewed it here yet?

 

Without wanting to sound snarky: Yes, it may be that no one here has reviewed it yet. We're all a bunch of enthusiasts, not a news agency. 

[khalameet]

As far as I can tell, Pilot officially announced this ink in Japan, only. So I believe that stiloestile imported the ink to sell it in Europe. Therefore it is not that well known outside Japan and not widely available (I think the ink was announced a month ago, maybe two), and it is not on the radar of the frequent reviewers yet. There are some posts on reddit, though.

 

I guess you either have to review it yourself or kindly ask if anyone owns the ink and would review it. Otherwise, I think you have to be patient. I mean, even the classic blue black from their lineup, which is a few decades old, has only a handful of reviews so far. I guess these inks are just not as common as the Iroshizuku lineup, for example

[Maurizio]

I am simply expressing my surprise that, with all the enthusiastic inkophiles here, no one has yet done a review. I am surprised that it hasn’t caused more of a “splash”, that there’s not more “buzz” about the fact the one of the Japanese Big Three has come out with a new, fountain-pen friendly permanent ink. Because, perhaps, Pilot’s market strategists realize that Platinum Carbon Black dominates the market for those who want a well-behaved, truly waterproof fountain pen ink and they’re trying to grab some of that away from Platinum. 

 

{Shrug}

[khalameet]

Well, I didn't mean to be mean, that was not the intention of my answer. If my answer came of rude, I apologize for that.

 

I remember that I was extremely excited when I first heard about the ink because I waited almost forever for a pigmented ink to use in my Pilot pens. But over the past two years I got more from pigmented inks into the iron gall territory, so I am not as curious as I would have been two years ago. Back then I would have bought at least a bottle of the blue black, but now, I don't bother enough anymore to specifically buy a bottle. If it would be available from a local retailer here, sure. But that is, unfortunately, not even the case with their standard inks. The only ones you can buy here are Iroshizuku inks, I believe.

[Maurizio]

No khalameet, no rudeness perceived. 

 

I also frequently forget that the rest of the fountain pen world is not as enamored with Pilot pens as I am. I have one good Sailor pen, and several mid-low level Platinums, but I have 7 good Pilot pens, as well as another 10 or so Desk Pens, Plumixes, Penmanships, Lucinas, Parallels, and others. So, for me, a new Pilot ink with permanent qualities is interesting news. 

[khalameet]

I am also some kind of Pilot fanatic, I own 8 pens from them, a Custom 74 being the most inexpensive one, up to a Custom 845. I really enjoy their inks, the standard black and blue black inks are very nice to use. If I would need another permanent ink I would consider the Tsuwairo line. But my relationship to pigmented inks is kind of a love-hate one, and iron gall inks come with the benefit that they work on any paper you encounter in the wild. But still, I am curious how the Tsuwairo blue black behaves in comparison with the standard ink.

[Olya]

2 hours ago, Maurizio said:

I am simply expressing my surprise that, with all the enthusiastic inkophiles here, no one has yet done a review. I am surprised that it hasn’t caused more of a “splash”, that there’s not more “buzz” about the fact the one of the Japanese Big Three has come out with a new, fountain-pen friendly permanent ink. Because, perhaps, Pilot’s market strategists realize that Platinum Carbon Black dominates the market for those who want a well-behaved, truly waterproof fountain pen ink and they’re trying to grab some of that away from Platinum. 

 

{Shrug}

I think you kinda hit the nail on the head...

 

I was also expecting a bit more excitement and reviews, but I think the market is borderline over-saturated and of the Japanese Big 3, Pilot was the slowest to react/evolve their ink line.. I think there's a bit of consumer-fatigue and Pilot did add significantly to their own line with the pigment inks, but in the grand scheme of things, they didn't add anything amazing.

 

We're knee-deep in various inks, Platinum "specialized" in iron gall (creating a niche within a niche) + the dye mixables, Sailor created a large range of pigment inks ages ago, now mixable pigment inks, they have expanded their dye inks by a crazy amount and introduced their coloured inks in cartridge form in a similar fashion to Pelikan's Edelstein line (i.e. pay through the nose for a couple of carts coming in their own box).

 

During all this, Pilot was kind of asleep... They added the small Iro bottles as addition to their big ones and added a few colours to their Iro line and that was it (and discontinued a few colours at the same time as introducing new ones).

 

Let's not even get started on all the other existing brands + the hordes of new brands, all the sheen, glitter, shading...

 

I am expecting for Pilot to follow Pelikan Edelstein and Sailor Shikiori and offer their Iroshizuku line in cartridge form, I actually expected them to do this ages ago... We'll see I guess.

 

I am also still amazed at the poor offer of Pilot pens through official channels in Europe (except for a couple of shops, which offer way more than is officially available in Europe and have a great line-up of almost all products. e.g. Stilo e Stile has become my go-to and I don't know how or why they offer so much when other Euro shops offer so little and Pilot themselves only sell a handful of models).

Sailor and Platinum offer loads more officially, not to mention the LEs/SEs, whilst Pilot's offer consists mostly of VPs, Decimos (not even all the colours!!!) and in many places only a transparent black C74, not even the other 74s.... This is very condensed, because my wall of text here is already long enough and more than I initially intended, but anyway, point is, Pilot always seemed to me a bit slow and their offer or rather lack thereof strange.

 

I suppose as long as the bottom line is satisfactory, there's no need for change?

 

I have complained for ages here that I find it strange that people want to buy Pilot products, but Pilot won't offer them their pens.

Their pens disappeared off of Euro Amazon sites and even when buying through e.g. eBay not everything can be found (when wanting to import from Japan). I contacted Japanese sellers I bought from previously and they told me Pilot doesn't allow their products to be shipped to Europe (e.g. if a product isn't part of the Euro line-up, Japanese sellers can't sell the item regardless), so they took them off, but always sold me items when directly asking for them.

 

Pilots are amazing pens and the writing feel is my fave of the Big 3, but the difficulty at times drives me mad and then I go to my 2nd favourite, Sailor, simply because they are easily bought locally in Europe or imported from abroad, no necessity to jump through hoops for a plain blue opaque Custom 74 when the Vega can be had anywhere....

 

Thank you for coming to my ted talk and read my complaints.

[A Smug Dill]

6 hours ago, Maurizio said:

I am simply expressing my surprise that, with all the enthusiastic inkophiles here, no one has yet done a review.

5 hours ago, Maurizio said:

I also frequently forget that the rest of the fountain pen world is not as enamored with Pilot pens as I am.

 

At the risk of being perceived as snarky, which of course has never deterred me before, I think the objective answers to these rhetorical questions invite you to recalibrate your expectations:

 

How many Pilot pens have you reviewed? How many inks, that you may profess to like or adore for one reason or another, have you reviewed? (Yes, with due respect, I've looked before asking.)

 

If being “enamored wtih” a product (relating to this hobby) does not invariably lead to the “enthusiastic” owner/user preparing and sharing a review of that product, as your own track record suggests, then perhaps you should look at what actually drives the production and publication of reviews “here on the FPN”, or even on reddit where (my perception is that) users are way more inclined to leap to show others their new acquisitions, but not actually have an opinion about the products' intrinsic properties or analyse their performance characteristics.

 

If the likelihood that a product is reviewed online is a probabilistic function — based on any positive number of variables, including but not limited to product availability and pricing in various markets, the elapsed time since product release, the number of other published reviews for the product, etc. — then would you be equally surprised if the weather forecast says there's a 5% probability of rain, and it does not actually rain even though you're sure you see a single raincloud on the horizon?

 

[Maurizio]

I liked your rant Olya. 

 

It really does seem as if Pilot’s marketing department- at least the people making decisions - are as old and slow as Joe Biden. It took them several years to finally wake up to the fact the there were many pen fans in Europe and in the US who wanted to buy a Custom 845, which is now readily available from several US vendors ( I can’t speak for Europe, but I think it’s available there too). I may be wrong, but I believe the Custom 743 with its nice spectrum of nibs is still not available from US  vendors but must be ordered direct from Japan. 

 

Now, with this new ink, it seems someone in marketing decided they should try to compete with Platinum in the permanent ink niche. 

[Maurizio]

4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

At the risk of being perceived as snarky, which of course has never deterred me before, I think the objective answers to these rhetorical questions invite you to recalibrate your expectations:

 

How many Pilot pens have you reviewed? How many inks, that you may profess to like or adore for one reason or another, have you reviewed? (Yes, with due respect, I've looked before asking.)

 

If being “enamored wtih” a product (relating to this hobby) does not invariably lead to the “enthusiastic” owner/user preparing and sharing a review of that product, as your own track record suggests, then perhaps you should look at what actually drives the production and publication of reviews “here on the FPN”, or even on reddit where (my perception is that) users are way more inclined to leap to show others their new acquisitions, but not actually have an opinion about the products' intrinsic properties or analyse their performance characteristics.

 

If the likelihood that a product is reviewed online is a probabilistic function — based on any positive number of variables, including but not limited to product availability and pricing in various markets, the elapsed time since product release, the number of other published reviews for the product, etc. — then would you be equally surprised if the weather forecast says there's a 5% probability of rain, and it does not actually rain even though you're sure you see a single raincloud on the horizon?

 

 

I always enjoy your comments Mr. Dill, and you are certainly right, I don’t post reviews. I wasn’t complaining about the lack of a review, I was just expressing surprise that there was none. 

 

I enjoy reading reviews of others, both of pens and of inks and have done so for more than a decade on the FPN. For me personally, I prefer to spend my time doing other things than writing reviews. When I feel have something useful to share here I’ve shared it. 

 

When I was still interested in calligraphy I posted  pdfs of Italic practice templates I had found elsewhere in some obscure corner of the net which were for all four sizes of the Pilot Parallel pens (1.5, 2.4, 3.8, 6.0). I believe scores of people were thankful that I had shared these. I’ve paid forward pens and inks to  public school teachers.  I wrote a lengthy post about adding glycerin to ink (something I still do) which I believe many folks here found interesting. 

 

After spending the time interviewing an owner  and then taking the time to write an article about NYC retail store Fountain Pen Hospital which was intended for publication, I posted it  on the “first stop” forum when it was clear it would never be published. 

 

This is not to toot my own horn, just to explain that writing reviews is something I’m not interested in, but that I feel in contribute here, when i have something to contribute. 

 

I don’t wish to seem snarky either and I’m asking this in earnest without sarcasm, malice or snark: are you suggesting that people who don’t post reviews on the FPN don’t deserve to read reviews, comment about the reviews of others, or ask for example “hey, has anyone used x pen, or tried x ink, or x paper”?

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, Maurizio said:

I was just expressing surprise that there was none. …‹snip›… I don’t wish to seem snarky either and I’m asking this in earnest without sarcasm, malice or snark: are you suggesting that people who don’t post reviews on the FPN don’t deserve to read reviews, comment about the reviews of others, or ask for example “hey, has anyone used x pen, or tried x ink, or x paper”?

 

No. I am saying that if one is at all surprised by the absence of either a very specific item, or more generally the total volume, of voluntarily contributed original content about some product or some aspect of the hobby, that would be far more readily attributable to ill-formed expectations the first person has of his/her fellow hobbyists.

 

5 hours ago, Maurizio said:

For me personally, I prefer to spend my time doing other things than writing reviews.

 

I have no quarrel with that; but what do you know about individual fellow hobbyists to expect that they, in particular, (i) would have acquired the ink, irrespective of your own level of interest in the product, and (ii) produced and shared a review of such (iii) by now, since your surprise is in the present tense? I have >400 commercially available inks, and I have reviewed numerous inks on FPN, but certainly not nearly 400 of them. Do you have any idea how I choose which inks to review, and when I would choose to review a particular one, even if for argument's sake I have the ink that you are (or someone else is) keen on knowing, silently at that until now? What about other recently active ink reviewers in the forum?

 

If you did not base your expectations on understanding the likes/dislikes and behaviour patterns of particular individuals and/or their track record of producing reviews, but simply thought that, “surely someone would have bought it, used it, and thought it worthwhile to share some information (not provided by the manufacturer or retailers) on that particular ink by now, completely removed from my projecting my personal level of interest in the product on them,” then are you genuinely surprised that you made a blind stab in the dark and missed the mark? Especially when you're counting on them not behaving like you do, and not feeling that they prefer to be doing something else (but nevertheless remain active participants on FPN)?

 

That's why I invited you to recalibrate your expectations. The goal is neither to make such a review happen or prevent it from happening. The point is simply to address your claim of being surprised

 

Of course, if you enjoy being surprised in that manner, then please keep doing what you're doing.

[TheDutchGuy]

9 hours ago, Olya said:

I find it strange that people want to buy Pilot products, but Pilot won't offer them their pens.

 

Welcome to the club! It’s hard to think of a motive for it, but it’s something we have to accept. I’m fortunate to own four awesome Pilot pens which I use and enjoy regularly, but am not intending to buy another Pilot. Other brands offer me everything I am looking for and are more than happy to take my money.

[IlikeInksandIcannotlie]

AFAIK Iroshizuku cartridges exist.

https://www.pilot.co.jp/press_release/2022/04/22/post_103.html

[Maurizio]

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

 

 

 

 “surely someone would have bought it, used it, and thought it worthwhile to share some information (not provided by the manufacturer or retailers) on that particular ink by now, completely removed from my projecting my personal level of interest in the product on them,” then are you genuinely surprised that you made a blind stab in the dark and missed the mark? 

 

Of course, if you enjoy being surprised in that manner, then please keep doing what you're doing.

 

That was it. 

 

👍🏻

[Olya]

29 minutes ago, IlikeInksandIcannotlie said:

AFAIK Iroshizuku cartridges exist.

https://www.pilot.co.jp/press_release/2022/04/22/post_103.html

Yes!!!! I forgot ahout that LOL it was announced at the end of April, very fresh 😁

 

 

Thanks @Maurizio, maybe I'll make a whole rant series! (no, I won't!)

 

 

4 hours ago, TheDutchGuy said:

 

Welcome to the club! It’s hard to think of a motive for it, but it’s something we have to accept. I’m fortunate to own four awesome Pilot pens which I use and enjoy regularly, but am not intending to buy another Pilot. Other brands offer me everything I am looking for and are more than happy to take my money.

Thank you for the welcome, I'm in good company.

 

Luckily I'm mostly at pen peace, I've only had the Waverly nib (WA) on my list for ages and keep putting off a purchase (for no particular reason) and everything else is a "would be nice, but isn't necessary/pressing", so I'm not chasing Pilot now anyway.

 

The biggest temptations are always new releases (Pilot isn't too productive) and pretty Sailors, that new Festival line (along with Shikiori) is right up my alley, but mostly I can very nicely resist the "ooohhh shiny" urge these days 😂

[inkstainedruth]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:04 PM, Olya said:

I am also still amazed at the poor offer of Pilot pens through official channels in Europe (except for a couple of shops, which offer way more than is officially available in Europe and have a great line-up of almost all products. e.g. Stilo e Stile has become my go-to and I don't know how or why they offer so much when other Euro shops offer so little and Pilot themselves only sell a handful of models).

Sailor and Platinum offer loads more officially, not to mention the LEs/SEs, whilst Pilot's offer consists mostly of VPs, Decimos (not even all the colours!!!) and in many places only a transparent black C74, not even the other 74s....

I know exactly how you feel.  It's not just Europe.  I actually contacted Pilot USA a few years ago asking why they had all these cool colors and finishes for the full-size Vanishing Points -- but only sold (at the time) HALF of the standard colors for the Decimos in the US.  I got told "It's a marketing decision...."  The annoying part for me was that the two colors I liked best (Light Grey and Dark Blue) were NOT in that list.  So I ended up bypassing the US distributor and US retailers ENTIRELY for my first one.  And saved money in the process.  Just to be able to get a Decimo in Light Grey....  Pilot-USA's loss....

I don't actually like the look of the three new Iroshizuku colors either, from what I've seen of them.  And stocked up on two of the colors they were set to replace (Tsuyu-kusa and IIRC Yama-guri) before they disappeared entirely (much as I love Kon-peki, I find Tsuyu-kusa to be a very nice ink that never got the love some of the other Iroshizuku line had; and while Yama-guri is very similar in color to Edelstein Smoky Quartz, Yama-guri behaves better in some pens (just as Smoky Quartz behaves better in others, like my Pelikan M400 Brown Tortoise).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Olya]

8 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

I know exactly how you feel.  It's not just Europe.  I actually contacted Pilot USA a few years ago asking why they had all these cool colors and finishes for the full-size Vanishing Points -- but only sold (at the time) HALF of the standard colors for the Decimos in the US.  I got told "It's a marketing decision...."  The annoying part for me was that the two colors I liked best (Light Grey and Dark Blue) were NOT in that list.  So I ended up bypassing the US distributor and US retailers ENTIRELY for my first one.  And saved money in the process.  Just to be able to get a Decimo in Light Grey....  Pilot-USA's loss....

I don't actually like the look of the three new Iroshizuku colors either, from what I've seen of them.  And stocked up on two of the colors they were set to replace (Tsuyu-kusa and IIRC Yama-guri) before they disappeared entirely (much as I love Kon-peki, I find Tsuyu-kusa to be a very nice ink that never got the love some of the other Iroshizuku line had; and while Yama-guri is very similar in color to Edelstein Smoky Quartz, Yama-guri behaves better in some pens (just as Smoky Quartz behaves better in others, like my Pelikan M400 Brown Tortoise).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

'"It's a marketing decision...."' LOL

 

Yes, their decisions are "marketing" based, as they call them, but I don't know what kind of marketing it is, when you have demand, but refuse to sell your products 😂 Even going as far as banning domestic (Japanese) sellers from selling to foreigners!!!!! Crazy.

 

But we still find ways, evidently 😉

[inkstainedruth]

Well, that's how I got the Light Grey Decimo (well, the second one, anyway) -- a Japanese seller on eBay.  The first one, which sadly got lost, I got through someone at the Ohio Pen Show who had a contact in Japan.

Now if I could only find the bright pink one that was only made for some pen show a few years ago (in Tokyo, IIRC) for some semi-reasonable (i.e., affordable) price.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[awa54]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:14 PM, Maurizio said:

....

 

It really does seem as if Pilot’s marketing department- at least the people making decisions - are as old and slow as Joe Biden.

 

.....

 

 

or maybe they just run their ink business like an Atlantic City casino? /s

 

if you eventually find any info on this new Pilot INK, we'll all be glad to hear those opinions