Falling Out of Love with Tomoe River Paper!!!

[jdwhitak]

So, I'm nearing the end of my stock of Tomoe River notebooks. I bought a Leuchtturmm 120g and an Apica Premium CD to give something different a try. All I have to say is wow!!! All my pens are giving me a better writing experience on the Leuchttrum and Apica. I think Tomoe River might be getting the boot.

 

Anyone else not digging Tomoe River anymore?

[arcfide]

I've not been using TR for a while now, so I guess it kind of got the boot from me a while back, but I don't know that I necessarily fell out of love with it so much as I found things that I wanted more from my paper that TR wasn't giving me. 

[JulieParadise]

Rather than calling it "falling out of love" I'd say I'm appreciating other papers, too, whenever I get to use them. 

 

There are some papers I just love, like the ivory/cream coloured paper Life uses in their Noble line of pads, cahiers, and notebooks. 

 

And then there are the ivory coloured papers Clairefontaine uses in their Neo Deco/Jeans/etc. line, the Heritage line, the white Age Bag-papers, the Rhodia Composition Book paper, etc.

 

There are the Midori MD papers, white and cream, some of the Leuchtturm ...

 

There are so many amazing papers out there that Tomoe River is just one of them, and a great one, but not the only!

 

Switching up the papers one uses might help appreciate the variety of papers and keep the fun up.

[dragondazd]

I never used TR for the writing experience. It's really used for high page counts and showing off ink for me. If the writing experience is what you're looking for, TR is an odd place to stay. 

 

I recently got a tsubame notebook. Would love to use it in a notebook that lays flat.

[TSherbs]

No....You need couples' counseling to work on your relationship with your paper.

[Runnin_Ute]

I use TR mostly in my correspondence. Because of it's light weight, it is especially useful when sending letters internationally as I can get more pages sent for the same price. I use a variety of things - Leuchtturm, TR, Apica CD notebooks, Clairfontaine Neo Deco, Made in Brazil composition books, Rhodia, Black n Red just to name a few.

[Karmachanic]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:42 PM, dragondazd said:

used for high page counts and showing off ink

 

Ditto.  Also use Stalogy for the page count.  If there are other 360+ page count, 15mm thick, lay-flat, A5 journals out there please let me know.

[HobbitLife]

7 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

If there are other 360+ page count, 15mm thick, lay-flat, A5 journals out there please let me know.

Same here! Been on the hunt for a thin 300+ page alternative to TR. I was disappointed with my Stalogy because of the inconsistency of paper quality. I experienced a lot of bleed through (even with wet writing fine nibs!) that made it unusable for me. 
 

I’ve heard that the new Sanzen TRP has slightly faster dry times - maybe it will work. 

[XYZZY]

To me it's about the journey of trying new paper (or even different notebooks that use paper I'm familiar with).  I still consider 68gsm Tomoe River to be my favorite, but it accounts for less than 50% of what I have written on.  And I'm a one notebook at a time person.  I start it, fill it, then move on.  Part of the enjoyment isn't just trying something different, but the experience of how my own opinion of the notebook evolves as the weeks (or months) go by.

 

I'm a bit surprised that you like Leuchttrum, though.  I have tried multiple of them over the past three years and they are consistently poor.  It's the paper's handling of nibs and ink that I dislike.  As far as construction they good, and they're available in all sorts of places, so I guess if the paper work for you then that makes them excellent. 

[Indranil Banerjie]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:39 AM, XYZZY said:

To me it's about the journey of trying new paper (or even different notebooks that use paper I'm familiar with).  I still consider 68gsm Tomoe River to be my favorite, but it accounts for less than 50% of what I have written on.  

 

 

What are some of the other papers/notebooks you have tried and liked? And their price range, please? Thanks.

[XYZZY]

On 7/29/2022 at 4:01 AM, Indranil Banerjie said:

What are some of the other papers/notebooks you have tried and liked? And their price range, please? Thanks.

 

Hi @Indranil Banerjie at welcome to FPN!  I apologize for the slow response...I didn't reply right away because I wanted to go home and check, and then the thread was remarked read which meant it didn't remind me.

 

Here's my list.  I am not sure about current prices, but most of this paper you can read about on FPN and elsewhere.  Search engines are your friend:

Leuchtturm1917:  This was a journal I was in the middle of when I bought my first FP.  It's not great for fountain pens.  Lots of bleed through, and it's random bleedthrough, as if the sizing is inconsistent within a single sheet.  I have bought some since then for taking notes in a class without an FP: they aren't expense, and are readily available in local stores.  They're decently made.  They have a pocket in back, table of contents in front, two ribbons of different colors, and include some stickers for labeling the spine.  

 

Taroko Enigma (Tomoe River 68gsm paper):  A great notebook, lots of excellent paper.  I had some TR samples from Goulet before trying this, so it wasn't my first encounter with TR, but it was my first full notebook with it.  This one had 5mm dotgrid, and (IIRC) table of contents.  It also has a few pages in back for recording ink samples, which I never used (I record inks elsewhere).  Soft but firm cover, and is well made.  Not cheap, but they sell "B stock" that has some sort of minimal factory defect, which has never let me down.  Since I ordered my first two from them I have placed a second order for five more.  But I have since decided that I do not want dotgrid, so those turned into gifts for people.  They have since sold a blank page notebook; the only reason I haven't ordered those is because I have been having fun exploring other papers, but I do recommend these.  https://www.etsy.com/shop/TarokoShop

 

Bond Travel Gear Notebook (TR 68gsm paper):  This was well made, available from US Amazon, at a price of $17.00.  Only 192 pages, but a great buy.  Alas, that company is no longer in business.

 

Midori (MD paper): well made, good paper, great price.  The cover is just cardstock, and the binding is visible.  Lots of people don't like that.  The paper was good quality.  A coarser surface than Tomoe River.  The paper is "cream" color, but I would almost call it yellow.  It never really clicked with me.  I don't see myself buying another, but that's because the paper just never "clicked" for me; nevertheless I have no hesitation in recommending it to people to try it out:  it's good stuff and cheap, so no reason to not be able to speak from experience even if you don't fall in love.

 

Nanami Writer (Tomoe River 52gsm [old]):  This was my first 52gsm Tomoe River.  The paper is no longer in production but this was the gold standard for many people.  It is not merely lighter weight than the 68gsm:  it is smoother, lots of showthrough, and crinkly.  My first reaction was negative, but I forged ahead, and learned that I quickly get used to the crinklyness, and as many point out the showthrough isn't as bothersome once you have actually filled the verso side of the leaf.  Also, there was something about the construction of the Nanami in particular that I found very enjoyable.  The "Writer" model is cream paper, which was relaxing but by the time I reached the end I was longing for white paper.  The "Writer" is also the version with 7mm lines: this was the notebook that made me realize that 5mm dotgrids are not a given.

 

Yoseka Stationery Notebook (Conifer KBU2 paper): I tried this at the recommendation of somebody here on FPN.  I didn't like it.  The paper has a great texture, but I didn't think was any more ink friendly than Leuchtturm.  The binding is open (like the Midori), but the cover are paper "boards" cut flush with the text block, with blank pages.  All in all the construction was excellent (but plain), but I would avoid the paper.  The manufacturer is Taiwanese.  I just check the Yoseka Stationery website (the US company that imported these notebooks), and they say that the notebooks are no longer in production.  https://yosekastationery.com/products/yoseka-notebook.  At the time I was researching these I found some Taiwanese websites selling a notebook that looked identical: my guess is that they were made by Conifer, and the only think specific to Yoseka was the custom printed belly-band wrapper and the shop logo pressed into the cover.

 

Musibi Bank Paper 88 (Mitsubishi Bank Paper):  I'm using this now.  The paper has a very nice texture and has been trouble free with the few inks that I have tried it with.  Available in blank and a "cross grid".  Softcover.  I have the blank and really like it.  I haven't been writing much for a while, so this notebook has been my daily carry for more than a year (really unusual for me).  The covers are starting to delaminate, but are in otherwise good condition.  And I carry my notebooks unprotect: no briefcase, no backpack: given the rough treatment and number of days I have used it I'm still happy with the performance of the cover.  https://musu.bi/shop/tomo-system/folio-notebooks-a5/bank-paper-88.  I recommend this paper, and I recommend Musubi too, but these aren't cheap so maybe look for other notebooks with the same paper?

 

Midori MD Cotton: I have not used this in notebook form.  I have a stationery set with the same paper (and matching envelopes), and it is great.  The paper is only 20% cotton.  It's a paper you want to fondle, and for letters it makes an great impression on the person receiving it (you cannot say that about the other FP friendly paper).  The paper has more showthrough than you would expect from something this thick.  It's also a rather coarse texture: I don't recall trying it with a Japanese EF, but I expect it to be unpleasant.  But it's nice for large nibs.  You can get it in A4 and A5 pads (which are curiously gummed on both the top and one side), and Midori's bizarre "F" size papers.  I haven't tried this in notebook form, the main thing holding me back is that a notebook that is not A5 would stand out on my bookshelf and trigger my OCD. 🤦‍♂️  But given my experience with the paper, and experience with the construction of the normal Midori MD notebooks, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that somebody try it.  Last night while assembling notes for this post it occurred to me to buy one larger than A5 and have it trimmed to size locally.  I have found the stationery set at my local Kinokuniya, but not the notebooks.  Jetpens sells that along with the notebooks.  The Midori Cotton products are harder to find than their normal paper.  Not "hard" to find per se (just use Google), but I find that most stores selling Midori do not also have the Cotton, or have a very limited range of the products.

 

I have several other notebooks on the shelf waiting to be tried.  I am able to resist buying notebooks online, but when I go into the local Kinokuniya and can play with them in person it's hard to resist.

 

I have learned over time that I don't have any use for pockets in the back, ribbons, table of contents, page numbers, stickers.  Back in the 90s when I bought my first Moleskine I thought those were cool features (well, I never thought stickers were useful or cool).  Over time I have learned that I don't use those features, so they are a waste of money, volume, and mass.  I won't avoid a notebook just because it has those features, but it is a ding against them.  I currently prefer blank pages.  7mm lines would be acceptable, 6 or 8 would be considered.  I used think 5mm dotgrids were the obviously right thing, but that's because everything had them...once I tried 7mm or blank I realized that I much preferred it.  Now I will generally avoid 5mm, unless the notebook is for some special purpose.

[webgeckos]

I bought two 4,000 sheet bulk packages of the old original Tomoe River 52. It cost a small fortune to ship from Japan. And I still have 100 sheet packs of A5 and A4. I started buying the up when I heard rumors of changes at the plant. I think I have 33 packs of those.

 

I did send 2K sheets to my sister, the evil one who addicted me to the paper. But I figured I would live at least 15 years more so I wanted a life time supply.

[webgeckos]

Update: Found a bulk and mixed bunch of onionskin to try. from the photos its looks like about 500 sheets for $60. The sad thing for me is I  used some of these in high school. I am vintage

 

Runnin_Ute  why are you cheating on Tomoe? Why Brad why?

[dragondazd]

I may have done the opposite. I find myself missing the Jetpens A5 TR I was using previously. I was so eager to get to the end of it! Maybe if I restrain myself from using the backs of pages it would work for me.

[DrDebG]

  I have to say that I was addicted to old TR52 for years.  

 

I've tried a bunch of others.  Nothing really compares. 

 

But I have recently started using the William Hannah paper in their notebooks.  I really like the notebooks and the paper is an added plus.  I did a comparison against other papers and posted it here on FPN, and will likely be doing another in the near future that will include old TR52 and old TR68 against some of the newer papers being used by many of us.  

[dragondazd]

3 hours ago, DrDebG said:

  I have to say that I was addicted to old TR52 for years.  

 

I've tried a bunch of others.  Nothing really compares. 

 

But I have recently started using the William Hannah paper in their notebooks.  I really like the notebooks and the paper is an added plus.  I did a comparison against other papers and posted it here on FPN, and will likely be doing another in the near future that will include old TR52 and old TR68 against some of the newer papers being used by many of us.  

I appreciate the info you shared. The William hannah notebooks did not look like they would work for me. I would consider future products with the paper though.