Starting Over (kind of)

[FlyingClay]

As I noted in a previous post, I'm kind of starting over with fountain pens.  I'm starting over with a little more organized approach (or I'd like to think of it this way anyway).

 

I spent a good couple decades as a Draftsman and I've always loved FP's ever since I was younger.  I've always had a few kicking around to write with, somewhat decent but not exotic pens.  In addition to those, I've added about a dozen others mostly in the inexpensive Asian variety just to play with.  After reading through this forum for a while I feel like I need to build a better foundation with my FP's such as I have done with all of my pencils (both wood and mechanical) and drafting gear.

 

Currently, the 'high' end of my FP's is a TWSBI Diamond 580, a Waterman (Phileas I believe), a TWSBI Eco, a (2) LAMY Safari's (one F and one EF) and a couple of Pilot Metro's.  All of these are F or EF nibs.  (I write pretty small).  In addition to these, I have some Jinhao x750's, x450's and a pack of EPAKH's (which I've never heard of, but they write great).

 

I am looking at kind of starting over with a more structured approach to build a broader general foundation of pen types which I can then build from.  Nothing too crazy, mind you, just some more variety with some better known manufacturers.  I'd love to hear any thoughts you all may have.  Soooo...I'm looking to add the following pens to my stable as a start:

1. TWSBI "580 AL" - EF or F
2. Parker "IM" - F
3. Aurora "Style" - EF
4. Kaweco "Student" - EF
5. Opus "88 Koloro" - EF
6. Faber Castell "HEXO" - EF
7. Pilot "Prera" - F
8. Nagasawa "Profit Jr." - F
9. Kaweco - "Lilliput" - EF
10. LAMY "AL Star" - EF
11. Platinum "Procyon" - EF
12. TWSBI "VAC700R" - EF
13. LAMY "Studio" - EF
14. Caran d' Ache "849" - F
15. Pilot "Cavalier" - F
16. Regal "286 Author" - EF

 

My hope is to get a better starting point for a more thorough benchmark to build from in both pen style, purpose and manufacturer.  (Also, nicer quality, but with a better understanding of what I'm looking for).  One day, I'd like to go to a pen show (I've never been), and be able to walk around looking for specific things, as opposed to being just a pen-struck, drooling, knuckle-dragger.

 

I would love to hear any thoughts you all may have on this approach and selection.  I'm trying to stay in the sub-$100 range to begin with just so I can get some variety without breaking the bank.  Thanks!!

[A Smug Dill]

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Parker "IM" - F

 

I had one, bought maybe four(?) years ago. I can’t recommend that pen model to anyone in good faith, when it only reinforced my view that (certainly these days) Parker products are second-rate at best, whether we’re talking low-end (such as the IM) or high-end (such as the Duofold Centennial). The nib was disappointing, and the cap seal is not effective at preventing ink evaporation. I don’t usually make a habit of just tossing fountain pens into the trash, but my Parker IM eventually went that way.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Aurora "Style" - EF

 

Can’t comment on that, but I managed to get a number of Aurora Ipsilon and Tu pens at less than US$100 each. I prefer the Tu, but the Ipsilon is nice enough. I’m pretty happy with how they write in terms of smoothness, although the EF nib is only just acceptable in terms of narrowness of line width.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Opus "88 Koloro" - EF

 

I have one of those; it’s not too bad, although I expected to like it more, since I’m very happy with its recently enough discontinued cousin the Picnic, so much so I went out of my way to hunt down the fourth ‘standard’ colour of the latter even after already having three others between my wife and me. That EF nib could be a bit scratchy out-of-the-box, though.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Faber Castell "HEXO" - EF

 

I haven’t got one of those, but I do have several sub-US$100 Faber-Castell pens with EF nibs. F-C’s steel nibs deserve their reputation for being excellent. My recommendation is the Essentio Aluminium or, if you don’t like the look of the swollen cap, the Ambition; both pens use the same type of nibs (and nib units). The Essentio’s pen body is made in China, though, although the manufacturing quality is quite good (but the cap is a bit tacky), and the cap seal effectiveness is at least as good as that of the Ambition (which isn’t very good out-of-the-box, and takes ‘fixing’). I have the (also Chinese-made) Loom as well — several units of them, in fact — but I prefer the Essentio Aluminium’s ergonomics.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Nagasawa "Profit Jr." - F

 

Hmmm. That’s just a Sailor Profit Jr. rebranded for Nagasawa Stationery Center, isn’t it? Generally that means paying more for the ‘special’ laser-engraving pattern on the nib, when the pen writes and performs exactly the same as the Sailor-branded model. In any case, I didn’t think Sailor made anything other than Medium-Fine nibs for the Profit Jr. and Lecoule models. They’re good enough pens, and the MF nibs write finely enough — comparable to the ‘average’ Western EF nib, I’d say — but they feel a bit flimsy. Sailor Procolor 500 series pens (by any other name, e.g. Sailor Shikiori Hisakata) have better nibs; they’re significantly higher-priced compared to the Profit Jr., but still well under US$100. I have not idea how much the ‘new’ Sailor Profit Casual pens sell for in the US, but I’ve seen them listed on AliExpress for about US$60.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Platinum "Procyon" - EF

 

Not bad, but the asking price for the model is high for what it offers, in comparison to other Platinum pens. The nibs are not representative of Platinum nibs. If you look hard enough, you may still be able to find a (perhaps new-old-stock) Platinum #3776 Century with 14K gold nib for just under US$100 when discounted; that’s more representative of what most hobbyist talk about when it comes to Platinum pens.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

LAMY "Studio" - EF

 

There are three main steel-nibbed variants in the Studio range: the most common one, available in multiple colours, with the convex-shaped, hard and slick chrome gripping section; the brushed steel version with a rubberised gripping section; and the Studio Lx All Black with a Z52 nib instead a Z50 nib, and what I believe is the same gripping section as on the brushed steel version. The SLAB is my favourite Lamy pen model; but I don’t like the more common version with the glossy gripping section anywhere near as much, because the shape and feel of the gripping section just don’t work well for me. You may want to try the different variants in hand physically before deciding which one is for you by feel.

 

The Lamy cp1 in black (titanium oxide) finish is my second favourite Lamy pen model. The Lamy 2000, Imporium, and other gold-nibbed models (including Studio Palladium and cp1 Platinum) don’t even come close, as far as I’m concerned, although those aren’t bad pens by any means.

 

[FlyingClay]

@A Smug Dill Gosh, Thank You so much for the advice!  That is great!  I really appreciate the guidance.  I am still digesting some of it, so I will endeavor to answer your questions when able.

 

It sounds as if I might need to adjust my list...and this is exactly why I put my initial thoughts out there to get some input.  Thank you again!

[Sailor Kenshin]

What kind of pen feels good to your hand?  Slim, fat, heavy, light?  What filling systems do you prefer?  How do you feel about hooded nibs?  Vintage pens?  
 

If you know these things it will go a long way toward helping you find some other fountain pens.  Off the top of my head I'm going to throw the hooded Wing Sung 601 out there.

[FlyingClay]

@Sailor Kenshin  Great questions.

1. Size? - I would say I like about a 10mm or larger pen.  I generally like larger pen bodies, but I'm not sure why.  I have large hands so they seem to fit better.  I like small diameter pens also, but they are tiring to use for any length of time, so I guess I would say I generally like larger pens.
2. Weight? - Hmmm...I do like a bit of heft to a pen, but not overly heavy.  I like to know I've picked up a quality writing instrument and not a dime store pen.  I don't like something disproportionately heavy for its size though (like something intentionally weighted).  I'd say heavier than plastic...if that makes any sense.  (nothing against polymers and the like though).
3. Filling system? - Definitely like filling from a bottle.  In fact, I absolutely do not like cartridges at all and avoid them completely when possible.  So, converter, piston and vacuum systems are just fine.  I do not care to explore the world of cartridges at all.
4. Hooded? - I am not real familiar with hooded nibs, so I am open to trying them.  I've never used one.  My initial reaction is 'no', but this is based solely on my liking of the look of a fountain pen nib (and nothing more educated than this.)
5. Vintage? - Something I think I would like very much to explore.  However, right now I know nothing really and would be at a significant disadvantage selecting something.  Hence my list above, to familiarize myself with different styles, weights, nibs, etc.

As a general rule, my preferences are what I would call "understated elegance".  I don't like flashy.  I do (very much) like things which demonstrate quality and interest in the same...without screaming it (if that makes any sense).  I will use a (simplistic) example here...I put a lift kit on one of my 4x4 trucks which I drive fairly often (we own/run a cattle ranch).  I needed the lift for functionality in the springtime mud to be able to get around, but I absolutely did NOT want some "Monster" truck which many were urging me to do. 

 

So...I put a 2" lift kit on the truck.  It's just enough to do what I need, but not enough to tell anything has been done to it, unless it is sitting next to an identical OEM truck.  You can tell something has been done to it, but can't quite be sure what.  (FWIW I also 'leveled' the truck so it sits perfectly level front to back, which again is just slightly different, but nothing flashy). This is a silly example, but it was the best one I could think of to illustrate what I'm looking for.  I'm the same way with my writing instruments.  I don't want to attract attention to something for the sake of attention, unless that attention is someone knowledgeable about the writing instruments and would like to discuss the finer points.  This is very much how I am with say mechanical pencils.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Thanks!  You like ….understated quality, then.
 

 Take a look at the 601 on Amazon or eBay and see whether the look appeals to you.  It's a vac-filler and easy to use, though plastic and a bit lightweight (I need larger diameter lightweight pens…hand pain).

 

I have developed a recent fascination with piston-fillers.  And though it will cost more than $100, somewhere down the line, take a look at the Sheaffer Triumphs with conical nib, and Sheaffer PFM.

[FlyingClay]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the brand of the "601" you refer to?

 

I see scores of '601's' on amazon, everything from Jinhao to Parker.

[Sailor Kenshin]

It's Wing Sung.  
 

Like so:

Really the brand is Wing Sung

 

This will give you an idea of its looks.  I once saw a movie with someone using s similar hooded nib pen.  I HAD to have one.  

 

[A Smug Dill]

18 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

I am looking at kind of starting over with a more structured approach to build a broader general foundation of pen types which I can then build from.  Nothing too crazy, mind you, just some more variety with some better known manufacturers.

…‹snip›…

 

I would love to hear any thoughts you all may have on this approach and selection.  I'm trying to stay in the sub-$100 range to begin with just so I can get some variety without breaking the bank.

 

I'd probably sketch it out thus as a starting point:

Origin of manufacture: 1. ‘Western’ (1a. German 1b. Italian 1c. generic/others that don't use nibs made in-house) 2. Japanese 3. Chinese 4. Taiwanese 5. Indian

Nib: 1. Brand-name nibs made in-house (1a. Sailor 1b. Platinum 1c. Pilot 1d. Aurora 1e. Pelikan 1f. Lamy) 2. generic German-made (2a. JoWo size #5 2b. JoWo size #6 2c. Bock size #6) 3. generic Chinese-made open nib (3a. small, ~26mm, nominally ‘#5’ 3b. larger, 32–35mm, nominally ‘#6’) 4. hooded nib 5. semi-hooded/‘fingernail’ nib

Filling mechanism: 1. cartridge/converter-filled 2. piston-filler (specifically, using barrel cavity as reservoir) 3. eyedropper-filled 4. vacuum-filler 5. other

Pen body material: 1. plastic 2. metal (2a. aluminium 2b. steel 2c. brass 2d. copper 2e. other) 3. wood 4. ebonite 5. celluloid

Cap type: 1. snap-cap 2. screw-cap 3. slip-cap 4. capless retractable 5. other (e.g. magnetic)

Cross out or de-prioritise what you aren't particularly interested in. Then start picking pen models for maximum coverage.

 

Nib material (1. steel 2. gold 3. titanium 4. other) is another obvious attribute, but the ≤US$100 per pen budget would mostly limit you choices to steel nibs.

 

That would be one approach, anyway; and it seems you've already done some of that, explicitly or tacitly.

 

…

 

Or, knowing what I know now, I would have probably have like to advise myself-as-of-four-years-ago, to spend the initial budget of $800–$1000 differently, and focus on getting a collection of (what I deem, now from experience, to be) good pens while observing the ≤US$100 per pen criterion as a guideline. Some of the pens that have come to market in the past four years now offer options not available to me before for building that ‘broad’ base of pens I'd actually enjoy using, instead of having one of everything just to have a taste, good or bad. (Of course, had I not wasted money on tasting the bad, I wouldn't be able to advise myself like that.)

 

[FlyingClay]

4 hours ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

It's Wing Sung.  
 

Like so:

Really the brand is Wing Sung

 

This will give you an idea of its looks.  I once saw a movie with someone using s similar hooded nib pen.  I HAD to have one.  

 

 

Thanks!  Interesting. I think I'd like to try one of these.  Are you recommending this pen in lieu of one of the ones I have in my list, or in addition to?  I am thinking it should be in addition to the list.

 

Are all the nibs the same size (fine)?  Or, do they have different sizes.  I'm okay with an Asian 'F' nib, but some of the European 'F' nibs get a bit thick for my writing.  I guess I should try writing larger too.  I'm sure this would probably help.

[FlyingClay]

 @A Smug Dill Thank you.  This is some good guidance. 

 

I like the nib exploration progression.  I just need to fit those nibs into pens.  I may have this backwards, but I almost think I'd like to figure out which nibs I like before getting too wrapped up in country of manufacture.  In other words, it is almost as if the preferred nib will lead me to the country of preference (if you will).  I guess I am being perhaps a bit selfish, but my primary interest is in getting something pleasing to write with (for me), and then getting something which looks nice.  As I noted previously, I am mostly interested in impressing me (not others).  (That sounds bad, I know).

 

That said, body material is something which is very important to me.  I attribute this to tactile feel (again, for me) probably more than anything.  I feel like I have a lot to learn in this area.  I am intrigued by a large variety of materials for pens, so nothing is off the table in this regard (though I do like flat an/or subdued colors more frequently).

 

Now, nib 'type' is a subject I will openly admit I am completely in the dark on.  This is the area where I probably have the very most to learn.  Right now, I couldn't tell you in the least why one nib is better than another...other than solely by feeling how it writes.  This is the one area I am exceedingly interested in learning about...and in great detail too (down to microscopic levels even).

 

Filling mechanisms are of interest to me.  As noted, I don't care for cartridges at all, so I don't really expect to 'go there' with FP's unless compelled to do so by some unforeseen reasoning.  Aside from those, I find filling mechanisms interesting mostly for the mechanical aspect of them (and to a much lesser degree quantity of ink).  I am basically interested in just about any filling mechanism which can use bottled ink.  I don't think I will stray far from this ideology in the future honestly.

 

As far as cap types are concerned, I am not too sure how much stock to place in this portion of the assembly.  As long as a cap firmly caps the pen, I'm not sure I'm too worried at the moment how it does it, be it snap or threaded, to be honest.

 

ETA - Hopefully my response is clear that I am just attempting to fill in blanks on my background while responding, and that I do not appear to be disagreeing / arguing in any way.  I genuinely appreciate the input, and am just responding as best I know how with my limited experience.

Edited May 22, 2022 by FlyingClay

[A Smug Dill]

3 minutes ago, FlyingClay said:

I may have this backwards, but I almost think I'd like to figure out which nibs I like before getting too wrapped up in country of manufacture.

 

Not so much that you have it backwards, but it just doesn't quite work that way, in my experience. An “F nib” doesn't mean anything concrete, other than that one can reasonably expect that it is broader than an “EF nib” and finer than an “MF nib” and ”M nib” of the same brand (and sometimes down to specific type). Japanese F nibs generally write finer than Western F nibs; and, perhaps in disagreement with some of what others have written, I have not found Chinese F nibs to be consistently finer than Western F nibs to hold the middle ground between Japanese and Western ways of grading nibs. Then there are differences between brands, even from the same country of origin. Liking how a Sailor F nib writes does not necessarily extend to liking how a Pilot F nib writes, let alone how a Lamy F nib writes, and vice versa.

 

13 minutes ago, FlyingClay said:

As noted, I don't care for cartridges at all, so I don't really expect to 'go there' with FP's unless compelled to do so by some unforeseen reasoning.

 

Almost by definition, a converter retrofits a cartridge-filled pen with a self-contained filling mechanism for internal ink reservoir, thus converting the pen to something that does not relies on replaceable, disposable cartridges for ink supply, but can draw ink directly from a bottle like ‘any other’ fountain pen. There are very few (but some) pens that only take cartridges and cannot use suitably sized converters.

[sandy101]

Ok, I'd switch the Parker IM for the Parker 45 or 51. 

 

I have all three - and the IM is the worst Parker fountain pen I have.

 

If you are looking at a range of filling mechanisms and types, then the P51 aerometric is one worth having, and with a patient search you will propably get one within your stated budget. You will certainly get the P45 within your budget - and if you are lucky you might get the old aerometric filler mechanism too. 

 

 

 

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

I'm okay with an Asian 'F' nib, but some of the European 'F' nibs get a bit thick for my writing.

 

You might want to have a look at this thread here (or jump straight to here therein), and browse through this image album.

 

3 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

Hopefully my response is clear that I am just attempting to fill in blanks on my background while responding, and that I do not appear to be disagreeing / arguing in any way.

 

Not a problem at all.

 

[mallymal1]

+1 for taking the Parker IM off your list.

[Sailor Kenshin]

7 hours ago, FlyingClay said:

 

Thanks!  Interesting. I think I'd like to try one of these.  Are you recommending this pen in lieu of one of the ones I have in my list, or in addition to?  I am thinking it should be in addition to the list.

 

Are all the nibs the same size (fine)?  Or, do they have different sizes.  I'm okay with an Asian 'F' nib, but some of the European 'F' nibs get a bit thick for my writing.  I guess I should try writing larger too.  I'm sure this would probably help.

Since it's a $20 pen, I'd suggest trying one not as a replacement but  just for fun.  The nibs are all Fine.  And whether it writes thinner or thicker—-well, that's a factor also of ink and paper.

[FlyingClay]

<Removing Parker IM off my list>

 

<Replacing with Parker 45 or 51>

 

Already added Wing Sung 601 to my list.  In fact, I've already got one in my 'shopping cart' to try out.  Should be here Monday.

 

ETA - DOH!!  Just got notified that my 601 order was canceled!  Pen wasn't in stock and won't be until late July.  Bummer!  Just since last night too!!

Edited May 22, 2022 by FlyingClay

[FlyingClay]

BTW - The <$100 is really just a guideline I picked out of thin air.  I can go over a little bit if I need to , but I figured I should be able to get a pretty good representative cross-section in that range.

[sandy101]

Maybe swap one of those Lamy's for a Diplomat? 

 

The Lamy Studio/Al Star use the same nib - so you ar enot going to see a substantial difference between the two. 

 

To me the Studio looks like the nicer pen. 

 

The Diplomat Steel nibs are very nice - The Excellence might be out of your price range (though the Marrakesh brown tends to get heavily discounted) but somethign from their range might be nice.

[FlyingClay]

@sandy101 Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the Lamy's in general, so I was kind of wondering about having those on the list anyway.  I kind of pirated the list I came up with from a couple of different web sources about similar subjects (but not exactly the same thing).  So, I came up with a hybrid list, again just as a starting point, subject to input from here in order to refine my list.  🙂

 

Yeah, the Diplomat is pushing my budget guide initially.  Might a Waterman Expert be an acceptable substitute?  (just need to find one in a F nib...only seeing M's now)