cant close nib slit

[patrik.nusszer]

I have a Pelikan M200 medium nib and I happened to little oversmoothen it. It wries maybe 3-4 times wider than than initially because I uave forced the tines open way too much. Now my problem is that I cant figure a way I could close the slit. I tried to push down a little on the nib so I can see the tines gettimg close to each other but they wont stay like that. Also my hands hurt because I have bave been trying to push the sides of the nib very hard but t also had minimal results, the slit is still freaking wide. I have also tried bonding the nib with thread for a night but without succes. Is there any hope?

[arcfide]

The best technique I have found to do this is to start by throwing the tines out of alignment just a tiny bit, and then cross the tines one over the other, alternating which one is higher and lower, until you have the tines close enough for what you want, at which point you focus on ensuring that the tines are returned into alignment. Be careful that you don't end up twisting the tines, as that is much harder to adjust, IME, and can lead to a poor writing experience. 

[txomsy]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just get a new nib?

 

Most likely, if the tines were oversprung they will be too soft now and easier to spring again. Most likely you will have the same problem again sooner or later.

 

At least you know that taking it that far springs the nib and may hopefully avoid it in the future.

[DvdRiet]

It kind of depends on how far apart the tines are and if that is all the way down the entire length of the slit or more so at one end, but whenever I have this situation, there are a few different techniques I've applied to nudge it back together. I say 'nudge' because it takes some time and patience to do it gently without immediately squeezing it all too close together again. (Been there, done that, too.) Also note that I am by no means a nib professional, just an amateur who collects older pens with nibs that have generally had some sort of abuse over the years. So this may not be the most professional way to do it, but it works for me in a pinch. 

 

If it's *really* wide, the first thing I do is squeeze it together gently but firmly with my fingers. Squeeze three or four times, then release and check, just to make sure you don't overdo it. I use a piece of plastic foam packing material folded over the nib to protect my fingers and squeeze at the curvature just above the shoulders. I also try to make sure the squeeze is very slightly upward from the underside of curvature, but still squeezing horizontally inward.

 

If it's not quite where I want it yet after squeezing with my fingers, the second thing I do to nudge it further is to use the smooth edge of a burnisher or polisher to push the curvature gently up and inward, closer together horizontally. (Don't overdo the 'up' part, but I have found that it is the key to getting the geometry right when pushing the tines closer together, rather than just a straight horizontal squeeze. But you do want it to still sit neatly on its feed!) This is basically the finer version of what I was doing with my fingers. I have a small hard-wood dowel of about 6mm diameter with a pointed end (like a pencil) that is meant for polishing metal and it works perfectly for this job, especially on the more delicate gold nibs. You could probably get this closer nudge done with your fingers as well, but I find using the wooden dowel gives me a little better control to finesse it that last little bit.

 

Then, once the slit is basically where I want it, just to get that last bit of nudge, I squeeze the tips of the tines across each other (over and under) (like arcfide mentions above) just gently with my fingernails. This is the real patience part because you can bend stuff the way you definitely don't want it to go and then it's suddenly a much bigger job! It's just squeeze gently three or four times, then stop and check, repeat until they are nearly touching. If you've done the first two steps right, this last bit won't need much adjustment. (h/t to @Bo Bo Olson and @sansenri for the guidance on this last step!)

 

Hope this helps!!

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

Wouldn't it be simpler to just get a new nib?

 

Simpler perhaps, and not costly at that, but it wouldn't give one the satisfaction of having salvaged an undesirable situation of one's own creation.

[txomsy]

That is absolutely true, and a great bonus on top of that.

[dipper]

12 hours ago, patrik.nusszer said:

I have a Pelikan M200 medium nib

I guess you mean a Pelikan "nib unit". That is a metal nib, a black plastic feed, and metal collar ring that holds the other two parts together. Correct?

 

If so, it is worth noting that bending the nib tines downwards is opposed by collision with the black feed that sits underneath the tines. Bending upwards (into empty space) is easier, ..... too much easier! ... as you have discovered.

The black plastic feed is slightly flexible, but easily damaged in the delicate fins area.

 

I am not offering any solutions. Hopefully though, understanding the problem can help you find a solution.

 

12 hours ago, patrik.nusszer said:

I tried to push down a little on the nib so I can see the tines gettimg close to each other but they wont stay like that.

The tines must bend past the "elastic limit", or "yield point", of the metal to take on a new adjusted form. If bent less distance (less "strain") then the metal will simply spring back when the applied force is removed. @txomsy and @DvdRiet have suggested techniques to achieve the necessary strain in the metal.

 

Final thought: Disassembly of the unit would make nib downwards/inwards adjustment easier and safer. But the disassembly and reassembly is a risky procedure itself. A balance of risks? But just so you know, (and can take some comfort from an acknowledged nib-master describing how even he has ruined some Pelikan nib units)...

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/repair/pel_assy.htm

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

Wondering where the OP is located.  Because MY recommendation would be to try and find a nibmeister to send the nib unit to (and/or, if at all possible, try to find one at a pen show -- yeah, you'd have to pay the admission to the show, and possibly, if it's not close by, stuff like hotels and travel expenses) -- but then there would be the rest of the show to enjoy .  

And IME, the advantage of talking to someone at a show is that you can explain/show the repair person exactly what the problem is -- and very likely have the work done while you wait (and ALSO not be sweating out the possibility of having it lost in transit).  I've gotten a number of pens worked on at shows over the years, and have generally paid $20-$40 US for the work.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[A Smug Dill]

44 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

Wondering where the OP is located.

 

Hungary. (See https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/360614-ink-alternative-to-graf-von-faber-castell/#comment-4437835.)

 

13 hours ago, patrik.nusszer said:

Is there any hope?

 

There is always hope of narrowing the tine gap, and still have a functional writing instrument that does not just break after a couple of sessions, provided that you have not caused the metal to fatigue (from inelastic deformation previously) or physically removed material from that area of the nib. If a professional nibmeister can do that, then it's humanly possible; it's just about having the expertise and the touch, and necessary tools where required.

 

However, it does not imply you can do it readily yourself, or that it will be cost-efficient to try to fix your nib as opposed to replacing it. Furthermore, closing the tine gap now does not imply it will perform as ‘well’ as it did (by your assessment) when the nib was new, never mind being closer to how you'd ideally like it to perform, since apparently you weren't happy with it in the first place. If, after all that trouble, the nib goes back to (only, say) 90% of how ‘good’ it was to begin with, then what? You mentioned having over-smoothened the nib, which implies having removed (too much) metal from the tipping; that part is irreversible, and you can only try to remove even more material physically in order to reshape the tipping.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 5:35 AM, patrik.nusszer said:

Yes I was considering a Pelikan M200 because I love wet pens. The more ink it lays down the better.

 

A more practical suggestion would be simply to accept ‘defeat’, use the experience to recalibrate your views, and wear the cost of the ‘lesson’ by simply buying a replacement Pelikan nib. Notwithstanding that you're a university student who cannot afford to be entirely frivolous with expenses, you want to use the pen as an essential tool for your study and not just keep it as a toy, and I assume you do have other, ‘better’ things to do with your time than to struggle to solve a €25 problem in the name of hobby-related learning.

 

[patrik.nusszer]

On 4/26/2022 at 12:55 AM, A Smug Dill said:

 

Hungary. (See https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/360614-ink-alternative-to-graf-von-faber-castell/#comment-4437835.)

 

 

There is always hope of narrowing the tine gap, and still have a functional writing instrument that does not just break after a couple of sessions, provided that you have not caused the metal to fatigue (from inelastic deformation previously) or physically removed material from that area of the nib. If a professional nibmeister can do that, then it's humanly possible; it's just about having the expertise and the touch, and necessary tools where required.

 

However, it does not imply you can do it readily yourself, or that it will be cost-efficient to try to fix your nib as opposed to replacing it. Furthermore, closing the tine gap now does not imply it will perform as ‘well’ as it did (by your assessment) when the nib was new, never mind being closer to how you'd ideally like it to perform, since apparently you weren't happy with it in the first place. If, after all that trouble, the nib goes back to (only, say) 90% of how ‘good’ it was to begin with, then what? You mentioned having over-smoothened the nib, which implies having removed (too much) metal from the tipping; that part is irreversible, and you can only try to remove even more material physically in order to reshape the tipping.

 

 

A more practical suggestion would be simply to accept ‘defeat’, use the experience to recalibrate your views, and wear the cost of the ‘lesson’ by simply buying a replacement Pelikan nib. Notwithstanding that you're a university student who cannot afford to be entirely frivolous with expenses, you want to use the pen as an essential tool for your study and not just keep it as a toy, and I assume you do have other, ‘better’ things to do with your time than to struggle to solve a €25 problem in the name of hobby-related learning.

 

Yes there is Appelboom, that is from where I source replacement nibs (it is a European company and so I need not to pay import taxes which is super cool) when I need them and my Pelikan has now a new well functioning nib. I knew that "nibmeister" techniques is a real thing and I blamed myself for not knowing how to deal with this problem myself. By the way where can I read more abor this topic? My Pelikan nib was pretty exceptional. It is a very soft nib and when it is oversprung it is harder to manipulate. My other pens with rigid nibs are not like this. Those are more robust nd more withstanding.

 

I am sorry for being inaccurate. When I said I have oversmoothened the nib I dis not mean I ground the nib to glide smoother. The gap between the tines was so wide that it was writing like a triple broad nib and well it was awfully smooth and wet but too wide for normal writing.

[A Smug Dill]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:15 AM, patrik.nusszer said:

By the way where can I read more abor this topic?

 

I only learnt what I know primarily from reading other members' posts on FPN, as well as an assortment of off-site web resources linked to from here. I don't know of a consolidated body of material, much less a tutorial or course of some sort, for would-be nib technicians and nibmeisters to access over the Internet whenever they're ready, sorry.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I ruined quite a few nibs myself along the way, in the name of experimentation, learning, and outright failure.

[mtcn77]

@txomsy this was an eye opener, thanks!

I think posters are correct. If you want a no frills daily worker, I think it is safe to say a 'nail' is the way to go. The fact that breather holes make the nib flexible brings us to your current situation in my opinion. Something goes wrong, ink dries, the pen doesn't write and you find yourself at odds with flexing the nib and it does not return back to its original place making you wish you had a harder nib.

Nails don't have to be hard, my smooth as BBS nib found a forever home in my other Jowo feed with the scratchy nib and became as light as a feather, no skip, no feedback pen. You wouldn't feel the nib unless you were like me pressing the tines together just to get more cursive action going with the nib's initial springiness.

Just get a new 40$ pen. Keep the other Pelikan in your collection, believe in me when I say you can get the worst pen to perform as new if you know which ink goes with it, but the opposite is not possible likely without switching the nib.

[gerigo]

You did not mention whether you removed the nib from the feed and collar. If the slit is quite wide, this is a must because what you'd do after removing the nib is to twist the nib so that they overlap each other. Do this on both sides.

[patrik.nusszer]

I did try removing the collar but resisted my greatest efforts.

[mtcn77]

1 hour ago, patrik.nusszer said:

I did try removing the collar but resisted my greatest efforts.

It is a twist unit. Had you pulled it, you wouldn't be able to reseat the nib in the socket. The collar binds the nib with a steel jacket around the feed, that is why they come as separate units.

[patrik.nusszer]

9 hours ago, mtcn77 said:

It is a twist unit. Had you pulled it, you wouldn't be able to reseat the nib in the socket. The collar binds the nib with a steel jacket around the feed, that is why they come as separate units.

Well, I have actually untwisted the unit from the pen, but I read that the nib should be removed from the plastic collar by pulling.

[mtcn77]

50 minutes ago, patrik.nusszer said:

Well, I have actually untwisted the unit from the pen, but I read that the nib should be removed from the plastic collar by pulling.

Yes sir, however not while on the pen if we want to save the section treads it connects into.

 

Maybe, we shouldn't do it without authorised service. This not just a basic friction fit after all.

[mizgeorge]

5 hours ago, patrik.nusszer said:

Well, I have actually untwisted the unit from the pen, but I read that the nib should be removed from the plastic collar by pulling.

Since you've already got a replacement nib, I'd say there was nothing to lose (especially given that this is not a very precious nib) and would have no qualms about knocking out the nib and feed from the collar (it's really not that hard to do).

 

Make a note of where the nib sits in relation to the collar (both in terms of depth and position) so you can put it back in at the same orientation and go ahead. I find it easier to knock these out on a table edge (or bench block in my case) than to pull them, but I don't have the hand strength I used to any more!  Once the nib is free, you shouldn't have any problems realigning it and it's then just a case of pushing everything back into place, following the marks you made earlier to ensure the right position for nib. 

[gerigo]

You need a knock out block to remove the nib from the collar. There is a very good explanation on Anderson Pen's Brunch series a few weeks back when Brian was talking about removing a nib from the collar of a few vintage pens including an Esterbrook. You can buy a professional knock out block, or you can also make one of your own.

[nibtip]

On 4/25/2022 at 11:28 AM, patrik.nusszer said:

I have a Pelikan M200 medium nib and I happened to little oversmoothen it. It wries maybe 3-4 times wider than than initially because I uave forced the tines open way too much. Now my problem is that I cant figure a way I could close the slit. I tried to push down a little on the nib so I can see the tines gettimg close to each other but they wont stay like that. Also my hands hurt because I have bave been trying to push the sides of the nib very hard but t also had minimal results, the slit is still freaking wide. I have also tried bonding the nib with thread for a night but without succes. Is there any hope?

I can help you in my own way. PM and I'll ship you by the end of the week one of these nibs free of charge. They are brand new never ever used.